Are Russia and China trapped in a vortex of Zero-Sum Thinking?

[Landon Caeli]

My answer is yes. It seems like they just can't seem to shake this flawed style of thinking, that is something more advanced, socially mature individuals don't seem to suffer from. Is there any way we can help those who suffer from this to understand the concept, and then acknowledge when it happens?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Landon Caeli]

A lesson for authoritarian type leaders:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-dominant-leaders-go-wrong/?amp=true

"In our recent research, we examined some of the unintentional negative consequences of a dominant leadership style. Across eight studies, we explored how such leaders can inadvertently reduce cooperation among their employees by fostering a competitive climate. Past research shows that societies and organizations flourish when members help one another, share information and engage in collective problem-solving. Dominant leadership can stifle those activities, however. We argue that’s because a leader’s hyperindividualist approach can foster a widespread zero-sum mindset, in which people believe they can only progress at the expense of others."

 

[childeye 2]

My answer is yes. It seems like they just can't seem to shake this flawed style of thinking, that is something more advanced, socially mature individuals don't seem to suffer from. Is there any way we can help those who suffer from this to understand the concept, and then acknowledge when it happens?

What are your thoughts?

I would say that what you are describing as zero sum thinking looks like a carnal mindset.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I would say that what you are describing as zero sum thinking looks like a carnal mindset.

It's a little bit different. A zero-sum mindset, or a zero-sum bias, is basically the inclination that by someone else's loss, you become the winner. With Russia, by gaining Ukraine, somehow The West suffers a huge loss, making Putin the big winner.

...Same thing with China - As long as Taiwan remains independent, China feels as though it has lost, and in order to "win" they must reclaim Taiwan.

It's viewing the world as a win/lose game, and I even see posters on this forum acting that way, when they debate, to be honest.

 

[Landon Caeli]

This is something everyone needs to understand. Especially world leaders, whose decisions have major global impacts.

Life is not a game, where the depth of our goals are restricted to antagonistic behavior and childlike inclinations of 'I win, you lose'.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

My answer is yes. It seems like they just can't seem to shake this flawed style of thinking, that is something more advanced, socially mature individuals don't seem to suffer from. Is there any way we can help those who suffer from this to understand the concept, and then acknowledge when it happens?

What are your thoughts?

Well they both want to be empires. I don't think it is necessarily a zero sum game, although it probably is to their immediate neighbors. I think China game is more nefarious than Russia's. China's pretty much want's to control the world one way or another in subtle ways to supplement their own obvious ones of military and economic coercion. The fact that our own politicians, media and entertainment personalities have had such deference to China in spite of our nation being technically "free" should give everyone around the world pause.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Well they both want to be empires. I don't think it is necessarily a zero sum game, although it probably is to their immediate neighbors. I think China game is more nefarious than Russia's. China pretty much want's to control the world one way or another, the fact that our own politicians, media and entertainment personalities have had such deference to China in spite of us being "free" should give us all pause.

I'm sort of convinced by the article in post two, that authoritarian, dominant style leadership becomes a perfect environment, a breeding ground even, for this flawed type of behavior in people. It can infect an entire region even, as it spreads like a mental disease.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

The issue with this kind of thing is we expect those leaders who are authoritarian in nature to act like a normal human being. They could care less about the average Joe and Sally within their realm. Stalin once said something about the death of one person is a tragedy, but the death of millions is a statistic or something like that. Most would agree that this dangerous line Russia and China have set themselves on is awful, but we shouldnt expect them to just suddenly snap out of it. Short of a direct intervention from Heaven, it will get much worse before it gets better.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It's a little bit different. A zero-sum mindset, or a zero-sum bias, is basically the inclination that by someone else's loss, you become the winner.

First time I've heard it characterized that way, I thought that was the default way of thinking for people at the top of the pyramid.

Kind of like saying, "So I blow a country up and there is a crater left, everyone is dead, but now I own said crater."

 

[Landon Caeli]

The issue with this kind of thing is we expect those leaders who are authoritarian in nature to act like a normal human being.

But to enter into the mind of the authoritarian (essentially being the same mind as a full-blown narcissist), isn't it true that the zero-sum game is the essence of their being?

 

[Landon Caeli]

Should narcissists even be given "personhood" status, if the depth of their mental capabilities is limited to zero-sum thinking? And do they have souls?

 

[Landon Caeli]

First time I've heard it characterized that way, I thought that was the default way of thinking for people at the top of the pyramid.

Well, I think you have to be that way to get to the top of the pyramid. That’s why Jesus said that the super-rich can't go to heaven - I think he was saying that the narcissist has no soul.

...But I'm open to correction on this.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, I think you have to be that way to get to the top of the pyramid. That’s why Jesus said that the super-rich can't go to heaven - I think he was saying that the narcissist has no soul.

...But I'm open to correction on this.

Yeah, with man it's impossible, but with God anything is possible.

Even if someone didn't have a soul, God could breathe into them a new one anyway.

 

[RDKirk]

We should not imagine that Russians who have been in government for 50 or more years have abandoned Marxist thinking in just three decades. And China's government has never claimed to have abandoned Marxism.

 

[Petros2015]

...Same thing with China - As long as Taiwan remains independent, China feels as though it has lost, and in order to "win" they must reclaim Taiwan.

Uh, but wouldn't we feel we had lost if China took Taiwan and Russian took Ukraine?
Aren't we all playing the same game?

What we should really do is have China take Ukraine and Russia take Taiwan. That way, everyone loses.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Uh, but wouldn't we feel we had lost if China took Taiwan and Russian took Ukraine?
Aren't we all playing the same game?

What we should really do is have China take Ukraine and Russia take Taiwan. That way, everyone loses.

I know you're joking, but abducting entire countries, against their will, with tens of thousands of innocent lives lost, is what we should all be enraged about... It's not about "who gets what", it's about how ignorant Russia and China are.

...So while some morally misplaced people in the West might feel that way, abduction, kidnapping and murder should be the main focus of those with a functioning moral compass.

 

[Petros2015]

..So while some morally misplaced people in the West might feel that way, abduction, kidnapping and murder should be the main focus of those with a functioning moral compass.

I completely agree, but unfortunately unless the attitudes of the other parties (Russia and possibly China depending on the actions they take in the future) align with us, that does make it a zero sum game for both us and them. If one person at the table is playing a zero sum game, then all the people at the table are too, whether they wanted to or not, unless they can take that player out or render them irrelevant.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well they both want to be empires. I don't think it is necessarily a zero sum game, although it probably is to their immediate neighbors. I think China game is more nefarious than Russia's. China's pretty much want's to control the world one way or another in subtle ways to supplement their own obvious ones of military and economic coercion. The fact that our own politicians, media and entertainment personalities have had such deference to China in spite of our nation being technically "free" should give everyone around the world pause.

This is a miscalculation. A study of Chinese history shows that Chinese are inward looking, not colonialist. They are seeking the South and East China sees as naval bastions, which is an inherently defensive military strategy.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

They are seeking the South and East China sees as naval bastions, which is an inherently defensive military strategy.

This is very naïve. There is lots of video footage, eye witness testimony etc. of the Chinese bullying small nations, sometimes even in their official territorial waters!

Not only do these do this in the South China Sea, but they invade the sea near the Galapagos Islands belonging to Peru to fish and that is thousands of miles away from China.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Zero sum thinking is very common. It is the basis for most political ideologies and the motivation for much political activism. It is not at all unique to dictatorships. Why do you think so many people firmly believe if someone is richer it means someone else is poorer?