Apart from King David, there is respect for governors, did God choose Nero to rule Rome around 65 AD?

[GoldenKingGaze]

In the Bible there is this great respect for rulers, governors, high priests. Of course Saul and David did not respect Canaanite kings. But Daniel and Paul the apostle respected the government despite it being wicked and pagan. Was this sighted or traditional? Did God choose Nero to rule Rome in the first century?

 

[Mark Quayle]

In the Bible there is this great respect for rulers, governors, high priests. Of course Saul and David did not respect Canaanite kings. But Daniel and Paul the apostle respected the government despite it being wicked and pagan. Was this sighted or traditional? Did God choose Nero to rule Rome in the first century?

"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established." —Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 3: 1.

If, as I believe is true, and as makes sense by way of causation, that God, being the uncaused first cause, causes all things subsequent to himself, then the scripture is affirmed, not only that Government is intended for the people's good, but that God installs and even directs the rulers, and that they are to be obeyed.

In this, as you mentioned concerning Saul and David, (and many others, btw), that the respect is not necessarily implied between one king and another —that is, between one country and another— the recognition that they are installed by God is. It would be implied, then, that serious reasons and Godly motivation would be required to take down the ruler of an opposing country. But to depose by violence one's own ruler (of one's own country) requires direct edict from God.

But that even that is done sometimes is evidence that God caused it, by means of (usually) disobedience, and that, not necessarily because of the worth of the ruler deposed, but because God causes all things to work together for good, for them to whom he chose to show mercy —i.e. the Bride of Christ. This is the reason, for his own glory, that God created, and it doesn't have to look right to us.

This coming [supposed] "election", whether by fraud or not, a new President is to be chosen. That will fall out however it does so, according to the decree of the King of Kings.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm not sure. One of the temptations of Chirst after his "forty days of fasting" was to accede to the devil's authority.

Matthew 4:8 NIV Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

I didn't vote in the poll because I don't know if the answer was 4 or 5 - "God was grieved" or "something else".

You may as well say God chose Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Pol Pot knowing full well what they would do.

He allows these things to happen, but that doesn't mean they are part of His will.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I'm not sure. One of the temptations of Chirst after his "forty days of fasting" was to accede to the devil's authority.


I didn't vote in the poll because I don't know if the answer was 4 or 5 - "God was grieved" or "something else".

You may as well say God chose Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin and Pol Pot knowing full well what they would do.

He allows these things to happen, but that doesn't mean they are part of His will.

I mostly agree with you and can't figure out which to vote for, but am waiting for others.

But Jesus only temporarily allows Satan to have authority towards later crushing his head.

 

[J_B_]

There seems to be a subtext to this question that is asking whether God condoned Nero's actions. Whatever purposes God may have had for Nero, there is nothing to indicate he condoned Nero's sin. Whatever purpose God has for any leader, we shouldn't think that means those leaders are perfect.

 

[Mark Quayle]

There seems to be a subtext to this question that is asking whether God condoned Nero's actions. Whatever purposes God may have had for Nero, there is nothing to indicate he condoned Nero's sin. Whatever purpose God has for any leader, we shouldn't think that means those leaders are perfect.

That is an interesting discussion, like the difference between 'responsibility' and 'blame'.

 

[J_B_]

That is an interesting discussion, like the difference between 'responsibility' and 'blame'.

Since this thread has been living in the theoretical realm, I hate to bring this up, but I am also suspicious if some might be building a case to say that, should Trump be elected, we have to obey him because God put him there. Nope.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Since this thread has been living in the theoretical realm, I hate to bring this up, but I am also suspicious if some might be building a case to say that, should Trump be elected, we have to obey him because God put him there. Nope.

In fact, there can be reason to depose a tyrant, though God put him there to begin with.

But, besides that, the President, under our constitution does not have the power to demand obedience. He is not a ruler.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established." —Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter 3: 1.

If, as I believe is true, and as makes sense by way of causation, that God, being the uncaused first cause, causes all things subsequent to himself, then the scripture is affirmed, not only that Government is intended for the people's good, but that God installs and even directs the rulers, and that they are to be obeyed.

In this, as you mentioned concerning Saul and David, (and many others, btw), that the respect is not necessarily implied between one king and another —that is, between one country and another— the recognition that they are installed by God is. It would be implied, then, that serious reasons and Godly motivation would be required to take down the ruler of an opposing country. But to depose by violence one's own ruler (of one's own country) requires direct edict from God.

But that even that is done sometimes is evidence that God caused it, by means of (usually) disobedience, and that, not necessarily because of the worth of the ruler deposed, but because God causes all things to work together for good, for them to whom he chose to show mercy —i.e. the Bride of Christ. This is the reason, for his own glory, that God created, and it doesn't have to look right to us.

This coming [supposed] "election", whether by fraud or not, a new President is to be chosen. That will fall out however it does so, according to the decree of the King of Kings.

Because God chose Nero, he is accountable for the way he conducted his leadership of Rome. One day he will stand before Jesus Christ and answer to Him for the deeds he did in his life, like all the rest of us.

 

[Sabertooth]

Paul was living under Nero's rule when he wrote Romans 13:1-7.

In Daniel 2:37-39, God said of then-pagan Nebuchadnezzar,
"You, O king, are a king of kings.
For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory;
and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven,
He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold.
But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours;..."

 

[Sabertooth]

In the book of Esther, Mordecai was a faithful "Secret Service" agent to King Ahasuerus.

 

[com7fy8]

God chose Saul, whom He knew would be a bad king. Saul was a consequence of the Jews demanding a human king, instead of having the LORD as their King. So, Saul was sort of a punitive consequence.

Possibly, Nero was a consequence for the Romans living wrong.

But we in Jesus can make God's good use of any situation. For example, Joseph with God brought all-loving good to people . . . even though his brothers sold him into slavery in a land ruled by a pagan king > Genesis 37-50.

 

[Ragdoll]

God is ultimately in control. God does not chose an evil king by an act of approval. He tolerates an evil ruler so that God may achieve a higher purpose through the evil and blunders of that king. If God wants to snuff someone out, He will. But people are born and some turn out wicked. God uses the wicked to expose evil so that many will repent. God uses wicked men to expose sin and evil so that people will repent. We have lived in a country that had it so well for so long and became blind to what evil is. Obama came along and deceived many of us into voting for him. But through our deception we were also corrected in the spirit. We now see much more clearly and know our country is under attack by evil forces running our country. God has given us the wake up call by allowing planet progressive to plunder us in our sleep and take our rights away. We are called to repent of our own sins and decades of blindness to our own lives was a sin that is now being exploited by Democrats who want to ultimately ban our right to worship God.

Voting for Obama was a terrible sin but one that has been forgiven. I have waken up and now realize that I can be lost if I allow myself to sleep while the last days of earth are fulfilling in front of my eyes. The Antichrist will rise and take power and all of this is tolerated by God Who allowed it to happen. God knows how to turn the tides. God knows how to win because God knows He has already won. God has seen this entire spiritual battle from beginning to end. God is still in control even when it seems God is losing. Satan wants us to think that God has lost. He wants us to give up and join Satan's army and abandon our faith in Christ. Satan is using everything right now to destroy the ministry of salvation so that people will not hear the message and will not be saved. Prophecy tells us to stay strong and remain in the word of God until the end.

 

[Betho]

1 Samuel 16:11-12 KJV​

And Samuel said unto Jesse, Are here all thy children? And he said, There remaineth yet the youngest, and, behold, he keepeth the sheep. And Samuel said unto Jesse, Send and fetch him: for we will not sit down till he come hither. And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.


Not even the prophet Samuel believed that a child could be king of Israel.... he began to listen to the stories of his brothers, although David's brothers were against him... Well, Samuel said that he would not sit down while he didn't arrive.... He couldn't stand it, God had to rebuke the prophet, because God doesn't see as man sees. So if God's choice of a king is so problematic, I believe he rarely steps in to choose kings for the nations.

 

[Sabertooth]

I believe he rarely steps in to choose kings for the nations.

Speaking of Nero, Paul wrote,
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." Romans 13:1 NKJV

 

[Betho]

I do not interpret the word authority in the text as the person, but the function.

 

[Sabertooth]

I do not interpret the word authority in the text as the person, but the function.

"Authorities" can only mean the people who execute those functions...

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

One can't take scripture literally, or I challenge you to send me a photo of your wrist stump.

Nero has been discerned by experts to have been a Psychopath, it is a known metal illness. 3 in 100 business managers are like this. They sometimes murder people without remorse... Pontius Pilate was sane, but why would God create such pointless tumult, even His own execution?

Was the LORD in full control of the Pharisees going back to their beginning, and He set them up to rebel, to refuse baptism, repentance, miracles, to kill the prophets?

 

[Sabertooth]

One can't take scripture literally, or I challenge you to send me a photo of your wrist stump.

So, paralysis by analysis...?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

So, paralysis by analysis...?

Is it wise in retrospect, having the benefit of hindsight? God is wise, God's foolishness is greater than man's wisdom, focusing on Christ cross. Wisdom is the principle virtuous ability to ask for.