Any insightful science in the Bible?

[OldWiseGuy]

With no measurements of the brim I can’t see how this changes anything.

The Bible thinks pi is 3. Which is wrong.

The two measurements together have nothing to do with pi, although pi is 'present' in each individual measurement.

 

[Larniavc]

The brim measures 10 cubits across.

The measurement aren't intended to reveal pi. What's the fuss?

That’s like saying 3+3 is not meant to equal 6.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That’s like saying 3+3 is not meant to equal 6.

If the brim is 10 cubits across then it's circumference is 31.4 cubits.

If the laver is 30 cubits in circumference then it's diameter is 9.55 cubits.

Two different measurements, not to be conflated.

 

[Larniavc]

If the brim is 10 cubits across then it's circumference is 31.4 cubits.

If the laver is 30 cubits in circumference then it's diameter is 9.55 cubits.

Two different measurements, not to be conflated.

You’re literally making thing up.

smh

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You’re literally making thing up.

smh

Perhaps someone else can help you with this dilemma.

P.S. I am glad you followed me over here (I got kicked off the
"Debate and Discussion" forums). I like arguing with you.

 

[Larniavc]

Perhaps someone else can help you with this dilemma.

P.S. I am glad you followed me over here (I got kicked off the
"Debate and Discussion" forums). I like arguing with you.

You too

 

[JohnClay]

.....If you want to quote actual Bible passages from a real Bible I will look at them. Not something calling itself the Flat-Earth Bible.

That link mentions a lot of Bible passages!
The Flat-Earth Bible.
And like I said they are compatible with a flat earth view and are mostly incompatible with a spherical earth view.

 

[HARK!]

It’s wrong, though. Pi is famously not three

LOL!

It is three when it's rounded to the nearest whole number.

I haven't seen any graduated cubits.

By your logic, pi isn't 3.1415 either.

Let's get real.

 

[JohnClay]

The water cycle is clearly mentioned.

Genesis 2:6
But there went up a mist (vapor) from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Ok I think that was ahead of its time....

 

[JohnClay]

If the earth is God's "footstool" his throne must be above it at all times, looking down on it.

Let's say that the throne is located above the Middle East. If a person was near the west coast of the US, to them the throne is below the earth.... (in a way)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Let's say that the throne is located above the Middle East. If a person was near the west coast of the US, to them the throne is below the earth.... (in a way)

It's also "in the sides of the north", which puts it always above the earth. God views the earth as a king views his footstool. It is always below him and at his feet.

It would make sense as well that God's throne would look down on the land of Israel, which is located "in the side of the northern hemisphere" (31 degrees north latitude).

 

[JohnClay]

It's also "in the sides of the north", which puts it always above the earth. God views the earth as a king views his footstool. It is always below him and at his feet.

The North Pole can be seen as the top of the earth... though apparently in the past the magnetic field has moved and flipped.... so it is a bit arbitrary....
Talking about "above" a flat earth is a lot more straight forward....

 

[coffee4u]

That link mentions a lot of Bible passages!
The Flat-Earth Bible.
And like I said they are compatible with a flat earth view and are mostly incompatible with a spherical earth view.

Again not reading some heretical text calling itself a Bible. Find some in the Kings James, New King James or even the American Standard version. Actual real Bibles.

 

[JohnClay]

Again not reading some heretical text calling itself a Bible. Find some in the Kings James, New King James or even the American Standard version. Actual real Bibles.

Ok I'll copy and paste some excerpts for you...

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
​

People who believe in a flat earth think it is stationary. The modern spherical earth is orbiting the Sun (i.e. it is moving)

Then there are verses about the ends of the earth... a flat earth has ends - a spherical earth doesn't.

Psalm 103:12 which says, “As far as the east is from the west, so far has he put our offences from us."
​

In a spherical earth the east and the west join up - i.e. they become very close, not far.... if it had been talking about the north and the south then it would have been compatible with a spherical earth....

 

[coffee4u]

Ok I'll copy and paste some excerpts for you...

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
​

People who believe in a flat earth think it is stationary. The spherical earth is orbiting the Sun (i.e. it is moving)

Then there are verses about the ends of the earth... a flat earth has ends - a spherical earth doesn't.

Psalm 103:12 which says, “As far as the east is from the west, so far has he put our offences from us."
​

In a spherical earth the east and the west join up - i.e. they become very close, not far....

Do you understand what poetry and poetic license is? I said it once so here it is again.
the freedom to depart from the facts of a matter or from the conventional rules of language when speaking or writing in order to create an effect.
Yet you keep quoting it like they are facts the Bible is trying to teach.
The book of Psalms is a book of songs and poems. This immediately makes any verse subject to poetic licensee. So you can cross off all of those for a start.

Then lets look at 1 Chronicles 16. But not out of context. As soon as you look up 1 Chronicles and then look up verse 30 you will see the text looks different. Unlike the verses that come before verse 8 and after verse 36 those verses (verses 8-36) are separated and indented-because they are again poetry. Verse 7 says that it is one of David's praise songs.

Onto Isaiah 45:18
18 For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.

No mention about it being fixed fast, not in the New King James^, The Old King James or the NIV. But even if it did say fixed it wouldn't matter because it's poetry again.The Bible also talks about the world as having corners and last time I checked neither a sphere or a flat circle have any corners. Again poetry.

Do you believe Isaiah 55:12 is also literal?
You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.
If not, why not?

 

[JohnClay]

Do you understand what poetry and poetic license is?

1 Chronicles 16:30 in the KJV says "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved".

It is possible to have poetry that involves true scientific concepts that can favour a heliocentric spherical earth rather than a flat earth... e.g. it could say "your care is faithfully constant like the earth as it moves around the Sun". Or "their presence is as far as the underside of the earth". Or "your anger is as hot as the center of the earth". "The devil influences people like the Moon creates the tides" (which supports gravity - something which flat earth believers often deny)

The Bible also talks about the world as having corners and last time I checked neither a sphere or a flat circle have any corners. Again poetry.

Well here is a person taking it literally:

An example that favours neither interpretation (flat earth or spherical earth) is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a single example that favours a spherical earth and not a flat one (like some of the example poetry I gave)

Do you believe Isaiah 55:12 is also literal?

You will go out in joy and be led forth in peace; the mountains and hills will burst into song before you, and all the trees of the field will clap their hands.
If not, why not?

Yes that is obviously not literal but on the other hand there are a lot of people who believe in a flat earth because they think that's what the Bible literally means.

BTW do you think early Genesis is literal or is it merely poetry?

 

[Larniavc]

LOL!

It is three when it's rounded to the nearest whole number.

I haven't seen any graduated cubits.

By your logic, pi isn't 3.1415 either.

Let's get real.

So the Bible has rounding errors?

Who knew?

 

[coffee4u]

1 Chronicles 16:30 in the KJV says "the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved".

It is possible to have poetry that involves true scientific concepts that can favour a heliocentric spherical earth rather than a flat earth... e.g. it could say "your care is faithfully constant like the earth as it moves around the Sun". Or "their presence is as far as the underside of the earth". Or "your anger is as hot as the center of the earth". "The devil influences people like the Moon creates the tides" (which supports gravity - something which flat earth believers often deny)
Well here is a person taking it literally:

An example that favours neither interpretation (flat earth or spherical earth) is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a single example that favours a spherical earth and not a flat one (like some of the example poetry I gave)

Yes that is obviously not literal but on the other hand there are a lot of people who believe in a flat earth because they think that's what the Bible literally means.

BTW do you think early Genesis is literal or is it merely poetry?

The world is stable. It's stable in it's relation to us and to the universe. When you walk outside you don't fear being flung off or even register the movement and its also stable in its orbit around the sun. So there is my answer to anyone who says stable means fixed still.

I am a Bible literalist over passages that are meant to be taken literally. I believe in both 6 day creation and the global flood because not only is Genesis historical narrative but other Bible passages support it. If God taught that the earth was flat I would believe that too. Poetry on the other hand can mean what anybody thinks it means.
I don't care what shape the earth is, it could be a potato for all I care but I just happen to think science has this right when it says its a sphere. I highly doubt the leaders of every county in the world got together and spent oodles of money to fool everybody that the world was a sphere. To what point?

As to that picture, that is quite different to what the flat earth proponents show now as their model.

I can see why their old model was set into a square, because of the Bible verses talking about "the four corners of the world" went against the round flat model. And what about the pillars?
1 Samuel 2:8
For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s,
and on them he has set the world.
Seems those corner verses don't bother them anymore nor the pillars.
If they want to believe the earth is that shape or a circle set into a square or even a cube up on pillars, that is their prerogative. As it doesn't affect their salvation or any other Bible doctrine I'm not bothered. There are far worse things to believe in, such as not accepting God's gift of forgiveness of sins.
The only thing that bothers me are claims of "The bible teaches the earth is flat" which I can only think is at attempt to discredit the Bible, is it?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The North Pole can be seen as the top of the earth... though apparently in the past the magnetic field has moved and flipped.... so it is a bit arbitrary....
Talking about "above" a flat earth is a lot more straight forward....

Taken together these references,

The circuit or orbit (not circle),
The sides (a flat earth doesn't have sides),
The fact of sunrise/sunset (night and day).

support a globe.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is what we're dealing with...failure to carefully read the account. The only thing this illustration has correct is the diameter of the thing. "Handbreadth" is wrong, dotted lines are wrong. The illustrator does acknowledge that the two measurements are distinct and in no way are in error regarding pi.