About families

[hopeinGod]

I am a Spirit filled Christian man, 61, who never had kids. I am not married as most of my friends are, some of whom think I am selfish because I did not give myself to raising a family. They don't know I have been sterile since birth, and yet they think my distance from forming a family is entirely outside of God's best for HIs people.

One thing that I see taking place in churches is the influx of families with five, six and even seven children who barely get by financiallly and think the rest of the body of Christ should be supporting them due to their own homemade turmoil.

"Ah, those poor children, they don't have bikes, or clothes, or Christmas presents," I'm told, and yet the fathers and mothers never think it's their ways they have gotten them where they are?

What's your opinion?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"I am a Spirit filled Christian man, 61, who never had kids."

That's good -

I'm a Spirit Filled Christian man, 71 who had 5 kids, 4 of whom survived, and 10 grand kids with another on the way. 51 years ago I committed my way unto the Lord and believed also on him - and that's the way it turned out.

"I am not married as most of my friends are, some of whom think I am selfish because I did not give myself to raising a family - etc."

Who cares what some IGNORANT, self-righteous, and judgmental folks think or don't think??? What does the Holy Spirit tell you, since you're Spirit Filled?? PAUL didn't accept the Judgement of others - why would you??

1 Cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

"One thing that I see taking place in churches - etc."

So now YOU're being self-righteous and judgmental, just like the people you're complaining about.

"What's your opinion?"

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Simple as that.

 

[hopeinGod]

"I am a Spirit filled Christian man, 61, who never had kids."

That's good -

I'm a Spirit Filled Christian man, 71 who had 5 kids, 4 of whom survived, and 10 grand kids with another on the way. 51 years ago I committed my way unto the Lord and believed also on him - and that's the way it turned out.

"I am not married as most of my friends are, some of whom think I am selfish because I did not give myself to raising a family - etc."

Who cares what some IGNORANT, self-righteous, and judgmental folks think or don't think??? What does the Holy Spirit tell you, since you're Spirit Filled?? PAUL didn't accept the Judgement of others - why would you??

1 Cor 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

"One thing that I see taking place in churches - etc."

So now YOU're being self-righteous and judgmental, just like the people you're complaining about.

"What's your opinion?"

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Simple as that.

I think the "judgment" I made about what I observe in most churches is exactly that, a discerning judgment, not a condemning one. Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback, Bob.

 

[Faulty]

One thing that I see taking place in churches is the influx of families with five, six and even seven children who barely get by financiallly and think the rest of the body of Christ should be supporting them due to their own homemade turmoil.

If they are wasting their money, expecting others to pick up the slack, then I would have a problem with that, but if the needs are genuine, then you are passing on your responsibility to help those within the church. The whole reason God provides abundance to some is for them to provide for those within the church who are currently and genuinely lacking (2 Cor 8:8-15).

Maybe you think they shouldn't of had so many children in the first place, but that's a denial of knowing it is God who gives the children as He sees fit in the first place (Ps 127:3).

 

[Hillsage]

I think the "judgment" I made about what I observe in most churches is exactly that, a discerning judgment, not a condemning one. Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback, Bob.

You are exactly right IMO.

John 7:24 Judge/krino not according to the appearance, but judge/krino righteous judgment.

So you believe your judgment/observation of the church wasn't "appearance" only? But was a "righteous krino" discernment...right?​

2919 krino: properly; to distinguish ie decide (mentally or judicially); by implication; to try, condemn, punish

1 Corinthians 2:15 The spiritual man judges/anakrino all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.

I wonder if Bob's calling you "self-righteous and judgmental" falls under the guides of the above verse? Do you consider yourself a "spiritual man"? Does Bob consider you one?

What think ye BOB? Tis a slippery slope, this judgment thing.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"What think ye BOB? Tis a slippery slope, this judgment thing."

BOY HOWDY!!!! is it ever.

I remember Corrie Ten Boom discussing the 'ol 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
passage

HER "take on it" focused on "Walking in transparency" with fellow Christians.

SHE apparently could be abrasive and controlling - without really being aware of it, and she wanted her co-workers to LET HER KNOW when she hurt them with her mouth, and she would do the same. She called it "Walking in the light with others". She found that when things in her party WEREN'T Open, and somebody was "holding something", then nothing flowed properly in the ministry.

There was a similar thing in a German Catholic Monastery, where the Nuns were trying to save their facility from the "highway plans" of the German Government. their primary "weapon" was prayer, and they found that when one of them was "out of sorts" with the others, things moved backwards in the battle, and when they were "all of one mind" things moved ahead (they were ultimately successful).

The "Body of Christ" will be a body of believers BOUND TOGETHER in commitment and openness one with another - Eph 4:11-16.

That isn't even on the radar yet.

When I read in the new Testament, and come across the word "Judge", I mentally replace "Judge" with "DAMN" - just to keep FRESH in my mind what it's really saying.

 

[Hillsage]

I remember Corrie Ten Boom discussing the 'ol 1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
passage

HER "take on it" focused on "Walking in transparency" with fellow Christians.

SHE apparently could be abrasive and controlling - without really being aware of it,

Corrie???? THE Corrie was abrasive/controlling??? :o I suppose none of us here can walk on water. I have enough trouble just walking on 'thin ice'.

She found that when things in her party WEREN'T Open, and somebody was "holding something", then nothing flowed properly in the ministry.

Sounds like she learned a 'spiritual reality' that many don't know about 'intellectually', let alone in 'spiritual experience'.

There was a similar thing in a German Catholic Monastery, where the Nuns were trying to save their facility from the "highway plans" of the German Government. their primary "weapon" was prayer, and they found that when one of them was "out of sorts" with the others, things moved backwards in the battle, and when they were "all of one mind" things moved ahead (they were ultimately successful).

How many think prayer is the 'last/least thing' to do, instead of the 'first/foremost' thing they can do? History has seen some powerful Nuns at times.

The "Body of Christ" will be a body of believers BOUND TOGETHER in commitment and openness one with another - Eph 4:11-16.

"Commitment and openness"...yes. But too many have interpreted that to mean 'letter of the law' concerning...'their' doctrine. I personally disagree, and believe that 'the unity of the spirit' makes doctrine's 'first' definition of 'function' more important than the one espoused by too many....and that is the definition of 'information'.

doctrine; 1319 didaskalia; instruction (the function or the information)

When I read in the new Testament, and come across the word "Judge", I mentally replace "Judge" with "DAMN" - just to keep FRESH in my mind what it's really saying.

But that's the problem that was pointed out by hopeingod to begin with. There are several Greek words translated 'damn/damned/damnable, and translating them all as 'damned' is a bit misleading. Just a personal opinion, of course. How do you generally interpret damn, and just what does that really mean to you Bob?

 

[parsley]

People pick on everything. They will criticize if you have too big of a house, and criticize if you live in a shack. You can never make people happy, or live a life free of criticism.

Also, people are self-centered. They feel their own burdens and imagine others have lighter ones. They yearn to have support, and when they cry out for it they usually get criticized instead. So they beg more for it, or give up.

People with a lot of children did create their own needs. But most people do not foresee what it will take to raise children, and the community doesn't offer that information. In fact, the minute people get married they usually have to fend off pressure to have kids, from family and friends.

The needs are great, and people get very weary from 24/7 responsibility. They took that on themselves, but did not realize it could be overwhelming. You are not obligated to support them, but just like anyone else with needs (everyone), you do need to make decisions in how you will respond.

Their viewpoint on responsibility might be very different -- they might see the church as a village to help with raising. Talk to any pastor and they will have many stories of people asking for handouts -- some not even participants at the church.

Churches have had food stolen out of locked food pantries -- people not even bothering to ask when they know it was meant to give out freely.

People expect the church to be a stronghold, an abundant storehouse. They expect Christians to be generous, but forget their part in that Platonic world. It seems fine to react to the attitude, but still consider offering help.

I had a similar problem when I was in my 20's-- church people would call me for favors because I "had nothing to do." I was working three part-time jobs, trying to establish a career, and getting an average of 7 calls per day (I counted) from people who wanted free sitting, help moving, rides to work, decorating for their parties. If they had offered me help or compensation, I might not have had to stop taking the calls.

We all wish for relief.