A Ukraine Peace Plan

[Love365]

Does anyone have a Ukraine peace plan
that both sides might like?

 

[John G.]

It looks as if the time for a mutually-acceptable peace plan is gone.
Much too much blood has been spilled and, besides, at this point it looks as if Russia will soon be able to dictate the terms.

 

[John G.]

It's worth noting:
If Ukraine had abided by the Minsk Accord, she would've lost nothing.
If Ukraine had agreed to neutrality in 2022, she would've only lost Crimea.
If Ukraine had agreed to peace terms after the war started and Russia withdrew from around Kiev, Kharkov, etc., she would've only lost Crimea and parts of Lugansk and Donbas.
If Ukraine agrees to peace now, she will lose Crimea, Lugansk, Donbas and parts of Kherson and Zaporizhia.
The way they're going, there will be nothing left of Ukraine...

 

[Gene2memE]

Obvious Russian shill is obvious.

 

[Arcangl86]

Does anyone have a Ukraine peace plan
that both sides might like?

No. Russian and Ukrainian desires are completely opposed at this time. Ukraine wants Russia off their land, and Russia will refuse to give back the land they occupied, which they indicated by annexing them into the Federation.

 

[Ophiolite]

It's worth noting:
If Ukraine had abided by the Minsk Accord, she would've lost nothing.
If Ukraine had agreed to neutrality in 2022, she would've only lost Crimea.
If Ukraine had agreed to peace terms after the war started and Russia withdrew from around Kiev, Kharkov, etc., she would've only lost Crimea and parts of Lugansk and Donbas.
If Ukraine agrees to peace now, she will lose Crimea, Lugansk, Donbas and parts of Kherson and Zaporizhia.
The way they're going, there will be nothing left of Ukraine...

You are correct. One way of dealing with tyrannical, opressive, dictatorial, morality-devoid invaders is too submit totally to their wishes, thereby losing only ones sovereignity, way of life, freedom and dignity, while accepting all subsequent forms of persecution, abuse and exploitation the invader deems fit. For some quite unfathomable reason the Ukrainians chose not to accept such a magnanimous offer.

 

[mindlight]

Does anyone have a Ukraine peace plan
that both sides might like?

Since neither side have any intent of compromising or ending this war and neither are in sight of achieving an uncontroversial victory may be who cares what these two think?

The effects of the war are to mobilize European military capability after years of neglect, to accelerate efforts towards a Green revolution and to permanently weaken Russia as a global power. The war has suppressed and dislocated the global economy somewhat and consolidated various anti-Western alliances while also affirming the NATO alliance and the crucial alliance between Europe and the USA.

Of course Trump could throw away all these benefits if elected to office.

 

[Love365]

Since neither side have any intent of compromising or ending this war and neither are in sight of achieving an uncontroversial victory may be who cares what these two think?

The effects of the war are to mobilize European military capability after years of neglect, to accelerate efforts towards a Green revolution and to permanently weaken Russia as a global power. The war has suppressed and dislocated the global economy somewhat and consolidated various anti-Western alliances while also affirming the NATO alliance and the crucial alliance between Europe and the USA.

Of course Trump could throw away all these benefits if elected to office.

A never ending proxy war could cause many different problems.

If you want NATO countries to buy more weapons or make more weapons,
make it a requirement for membership.

Peace talks need to start.

 

[Vambram]

Russia was ridiculed at the start of the war. Two years on, it has reasons to be confident

Hopes of Ukrainian victory look diminished and increasingly hollow, as do Western pledges to support Ukraine "for as long as it takes."

www.cnbc.com

 

[mindlight]

Russia was ridiculed at the start of the war. Two years on, it has reasons to be confident

Hopes of Ukrainian victory look diminished and increasingly hollow, as do Western pledges to support Ukraine "for as long as it takes."

www.cnbc.com

Interesting perspective, it seems too easy to absorb Russian propaganda on this war and that they are making a serious effort in the global information spaces to paint a picture of success in this war. But the facts are that close to half a million people are dead already and the lands they are fighting over are devastated. There is no end in sight and even a 'victory' would not be the end for Russia as Ukraine would simply go into guerilla mode and could then roam across the whole of Russia destroying things and killing soldiers. A peace agreement will not come from either power until something changes quite drastically. Until then the West should support Ukraine so that Russia cannot dictate terms.

 

[Love365]

Can Russia buy the land?

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Can Russia buy the land?

The Criminal Code of Ukraine prohibits discussing this issue, the issue of territorial integrity (this could lead to imprisonment in Ukraine).

The only exception may be the ratification by the Parliament of Ukraine of international agreement through the mediation of third countries (USA, China, Germany, India, etc.).

Until this happens, no one in Ukraine will even talk about this topic.

 

[Ophiolite]

Peace talks need to start.

A necessary pre-requisite is that Russian aggression should end and that they should reverse their illegal occupation of Crimea.

Of course, if you think it is sensible and moral to yield to bully-boy tactics and believe Georges Santayana's remark "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" to be balderdash, then you will ignore those pre-requisites.

 

[Love365]

A necessary pre-requisite is that Russian aggression should end and that they should reverse their illegal occupation of Crimea.

Of course, if you think it is sensible and moral to yield to bully-boy tactics and believe Georges Santayana's remark "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" to be balderdash, then you will ignore those pre-requisites.

Did you forget the British and the French tried to steal Crimea in the 1850’s?

 

[Ophiolite]

Did you forget the British and the French tried to steal Crimea in the 1850’s?

Had they not done so we might never had had pie charts. But I don't see why you think that is relevant. Would you like to explain?

 

[Love365]

Had they not done so we might never had had pie charts. But I don't see why you think that is relevant. Would you like to explain?

Today they are both part of NATO.

Russia thinks they are trying to steal Crimea again.

Russia has had a Navy Base in Crimea since the 1700s.

 

[Ophiolite]

Today they are both part of NATO.

Russia thinks they are trying to steal Crimea again.

Russia has had a Navy Base in Crimea since the 1700s.

There was no attempt to "steal Crimea". You are grossly misrepresenting a complex geopolitical situation. If bully-boy tactics were on display during that war then they can safely be attributed to the Russian Tsar who initiated hostilities by invading what is now Romania and Bulgaria.

 

[Love365]

A never ending proxy war could cause many different problems.

 

[Hans Blaster]

A never ending proxy war could cause many different problems.

It's not a proxy war. It's a Russian war of conquest.

 

[Love365]

It's not a proxy war. It's a Russian war of conquest.

Russia asked for neutral UN Blue Helmets in 2017.

Russia tried to stop the war.