A Survey Regarding Bitcoin

What is your understanding of Bitcoins?

  • I own Bitcoins and understand them well

    Votes: 9 13.6%
  • I know of Bitcoins but have no technical knowledge of how they work

    Votes: 24 36.4%
  • I know of Bitcoins, how they work but do not own any.

    Votes: 22 33.3%
  • What is a Bitcoin?

    Votes: 11 16.7%

  • Total voters
    66
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Dave-W

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The OP asks would we tithe with bitcoins.
Is that not unlike asking should we tithe in Monopoly money? (should someone decide that actually has some kind of real world value)
 
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Dave-W

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Would you be against gold and silver too? Bitcoin is legal in most countries including the United States where it is considered a 'commodity' that can be legally bought, sold, and traded. It has about as rational a value as the slips of paper we call dollars.
Gold and silver have had a universal value as currency for thousands of years.
Who was the idiot that forced the US government to accept it as a commodity?

Maybe we should accept monopoly money as well .....
 
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Brent W

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If gold were more valuable and stable than dollars, then the people who mine gold would never sell it for dollars.

Gold was around before the US existed and it will be around after we are gone. Unlike the US dollar, which goes away when the US ceases to exist in its current form.
 
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Brent W

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Gold and silver have had a universal value as currency for thousands of years.
Who was the idiot that forced the US government to accept it as a commodity?

Maybe we should accept monopoly money as well .....

1 BTC = ~$450

What value does Monopoly have?
 
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Dave-W

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What value does Monopoly have?
At present - outside the game board, ZERO. Which is exactly what every bitcoin should be worth.
1 BTC = ~$450
I have heard quotes in the last week from about $400 to $1k. The latter value was from an NPR story on "ransomeware" viruses.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I know about Bitcoins and I have used bitcoins but I would never tithe with them. Making bitcoins used to be worth something now it takes forever to generate them and it's costly and the return isn't worth all the effort. Bitcoins have been thrown under the bus by the government they're essentially pointless now.
Not really pointless. It's just that 'mining' them has finally become pointless, and that was by design. There was only supposed to be a finite number of bitcoins 'minted' and we're approaching that number. At that point you can buy and sell and trade and hold them but not make new ones. They will have the value the market gives them, rising and falling with demand. But there never will be trillions of bitcoins, as if our government might some day just decide to print money. Wait, they already do that to a degree. Anyhow, bitcoins have value outside of government policy, and may be an excellent hedge against government currency manipulation, whatever government. Not that I can afford to be into currency hedging. That is an art for the rich.
 
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Radagast

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I consider bitcoins to be an illegal currency and the designers should be prosecuted for forgery.

It's hardly forgery. On the other hand, it isn't currency either. I think bitcoin is best understood as a digital commodity. It is "mined" after all.
 
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Teslafied

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Not really pointless. It's just that 'mining' them has finally become pointless, and that was by design. There was only supposed to be a finite number of bitcoins 'minted' and we're approaching that number. At that point you can buy and sell and trade and hold them but not make new ones. They will have the value the market gives them, rising and falling with demand. But there never will be trillions of bitcoins, as if our government might some day just decide to print money. Wait, they already do that to a degree. Anyhow, bitcoins have value outside of government policy, and may be an excellent hedge against government currency manipulation, whatever government. Not that I can afford to be into currency hedging. That is an art for the rich.

Yes that's what I meant, the mining just took forever... We made a few thousand I think around 10 or so but they rigged it where the machines become obsolete so you'll have to buy newer more expensive ones so we pulled out before we got in too deep lol.

So it's always good I agree to have something other than money or what the government issues, this is why I have a seed bank. I don't want to derail the topic but I think eventually the enconomy will collapse and money / gold won't be worth as much when people are starving, so perhaps folks will buy , sell , and trade with seeds?
 
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chevyontheriver

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Yes that's what I meant, the mining just took forever... We made a few thousand I think around 10 or so but they rigged it where the machines become obsolete so you'll have to buy newer more expensive ones so we pulled out before we got in too deep lol.

So it's always good I agree to have something other than money or what the government issues, this is why I have a seed bank. I don't want to derail the topic but I think eventually the enconomy will collapse and money / gold won't be worth as much when people are starving, so perhaps folks will buy , sell , and trade with seeds?
Nobody rigged it. By design, it gets less and less rewarding to mine the bitcoins as the number mined approaches the total number of allowable bitcoins. It's a purposefully gradual thing. And a finite number of bitcoins makes some sense. The hardware issue is separate, with rapid technological advances in multiprocessor cores making a single core bitcoin miner laughable. That's where I was. So I was able to figure out that I either invest thousands of dollars into a fancy bitcoin miner, and thousands more every few months, or I forget about mining entirely. I don't have the bucks, or the interest, to be an up to date bitcoin miner. Didn't work for me. That does not mean it's rigged. It's just the combination of diminishing returns on mining and hardware capabilities gone wild. I never made a dollar on bitcoin. But as an alternate currency I see it could have some merit even if I can't mine or mint any myself.

As to economic collapse, maybe. Things are not all that smooth in the world economy. Holding the 'right' currency in the event of a collapse won't matter much. What will matter is character.
 
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StanJ

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Why should I tithe? Tithing is 10% what if I give more am I breaking God's command? Understand what tithing is, what it was for, and then tell me I should be limited to 10%.
Tithing is an Old Testament principle that carried through to the New Testament but not in the legalistic fashion of the old Covenant law. You have to remember that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek before the old Covenant law was ever in place and if you read that story carefully in Genesis 14 you'll see that Melchizedek was a physical manifestation of God.
 
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Teslafied

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Nobody rigged it. By design, it gets less and less rewarding to mine the bitcoins as the number mined approaches the total number of allowable bitcoins. It's a purposefully gradual thing. And a finite number of bitcoins makes some sense. The hardware issue is separate, with rapid technological advances in multiprocessor cores making a single core bitcoin miner laughable. That's where I was. So I was able to figure out that I either invest thousands of dollars into a fancy bitcoin miner, and thousands more every few months, or I forget about mining entirely. I don't have the bucks, or the interest, to be an up to date bitcoin miner. Didn't work for me. That does not mean it's rigged. It's just the combination of diminishing returns on mining and hardware capabilities gone wild. I never made a dollar on bitcoin. But as an alternate currency I see it could have some merit even if I can't mine or mint any myself.

As to economic collapse, maybe. Things are not all that smooth in the world economy. Holding the 'right' currency in the event of a collapse won't matter much. What will matter is character.

We had a few miners but even then it took longer and longer it's not worth it.
 
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keltoi

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Is that not unlike asking should we tithe in Monopoly money? (should someone decide that actually has some kind of real world value)
I apologise for your apparent difficulty with me answering people with regards to something the OP said. What is off topic is talking about monopoly money.
 
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keltoi

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Tithing is an Old Testament principle that carried through to the New Testament but not in the legalistic fashion of the old Covenant law. You have to remember that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek before the old Covenant law was ever in place and if you read that story carefully in Genesis 14 you'll see that Melchizedek was a physical manifestation of God.
You say tithing carried over to the NT but give me an OT verse to prove it. It seems you're more interested in injecting Mechizedek into the topic. Lets take it back to bitcoins and tithing and leave everything else out of it.
 
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keltoi

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If gold were more valuable and stable than dollars, then the people who mine gold would never sell it for dollars.
Gold is more stable and valuable than dollars. $1 is worth $1 but can go up and down against other currencies, gold is currently worth approx $1200 an ounce.
 
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Come on you guys shed a bit of light and share some knowledge - so that we 'I just don't get it' people can at least start to understanding what is going on. Not just with Bitcoin but also with the whole world financial system. Where does it come from where is it going to?

Is there no-one around here who can give some sort of knowledgeable summary of how bitcoin (a virtual currency?) works and how it fits into the cashless society that is slowly but inexorably becoming the norm?

What is bitcoin mining? What is the bitcoin exchange? Who is running and organising this deal?
I maybe very fuzzy about how this stuff actually works but what is obvious to see is that the world financial systems are fast moving away from being based on precious metals or national currencies.

><>
Daniel 11:33
33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering.
 
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Vicomte13

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Gold is more stable and valuable than dollars. $1 is worth $1 but can go up and down against other currencies, gold is currently worth approx $1200 an ounce.

Money is what money does. There is no intrinsic value in either a piece of paper or a piece of gold. Each have value exclusively because men mentally give them value. Some men who have dollars convert some of those dollars into gold, but only some of them, because gold is far less useful than dollars. Dollars are liquid - they are accepted everywhere, as currency, to buy anything. They are light and portable, and don't have to be guarded with the same degree of effort and expense as gold. Banks will keep your dollars electronically.

Gold is heavy and not as portable. You have to guard it.

Gold is not nearly as liquid. You cannot buy a burger with it. You have to convert it into dollars to use it.

Nor is gold as secure. For dollars to seriously lose their value, the government of the United States has to be teetering, and unlikely thing. Gold has whipsawed up and down, gaining and losing value in percentages many multiples exceeding dollars.

Ultimately, dollars are more valuable, liquid and just generally useful. We know this because everybody who has a gold mines, takes the gold out of the ground and sells it for dollars. The gold mine owners HAVE gold, and they could keep piles of it, but THEY would rather have dollars.

Also, the gold sellers - the bullion dealers and men who hype gold on the Internet. They don't believe their own rhetoric. For all their talk about how dollars are headed towards oblivion, soon to inflate to zero, gold bullion dealers are all eager to trade as much gold metal as they can for those supposedly risky and useless dollars. Gold merchants value dollars more than gold, or else they'd hold onto their gold.

And for all of their rhetoric, THEY obviously don't think that the world is going to be ending as soon as their rhetoric would indicate, because every one of them is eager to trade as much gold as he can for dollars.

Dollars are more valuable than gold, because they are more fungible and useful.
 
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keltoi

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Money is what money does. There is no intrinsic value in either a piece of paper or a piece of gold. Each have value exclusively because men mentally give them value. Some men who have dollars convert some of those dollars into gold, but only some of them, because gold is far less useful than dollars. Dollars are liquid - they are accepted everywhere, as currency, to buy anything. They are light and portable, and don't have to be guarded with the same degree of effort and expense as gold. Banks will keep your dollars electronically.

Gold is heavy and not as portable. You have to guard it.

Gold is not nearly as liquid. You cannot buy a burger with it. You have to convert it into dollars to use it.

Nor is gold as secure. For dollars to seriously lose their value, the government of the United States has to be teetering, and unlikely thing. Gold has whipsawed up and down, gaining and losing value in percentages many multiples exceeding dollars.

Ultimately, dollars are more valuable, liquid and just generally useful. We know this because everybody who has a gold mines, takes the gold out of the ground and sells it for dollars. The gold mine owners HAVE gold, and they could keep piles of it, but THEY would rather have dollars.

Also, the gold sellers - the bullion dealers and men who hype gold on the Internet. They don't believe their own rhetoric. For all their talk about how dollars are headed towards oblivion, soon to inflate to zero, gold bullion dealers are all eager to trade as much gold metal as they can for those supposedly risky and useless dollars. Gold merchants value dollars more than gold, or else they'd hold onto their gold.

And for all of their rhetoric, THEY obviously don't think that the world is going to be ending as soon as their rhetoric would indicate, because every one of them is eager to trade as much gold as he can for dollars.

Dollars are more valuable than gold, because they are more fungible and useful.
Gold is the basis for currency, without gold there would be no currency. It has been like this since the earliest of days. The Bible says the land of Havilah is rich in Gold, it doesn't say it is rich in dollars. Gold is mined, refined, and made into bullion and then stored. Countries store gold around the value of the currency that have in circulation. When gold prices go up the money in circulation magically goes up, when gold drops in value the amount of money in circulation goes down. The entire financial system is based on the value of gold. When times are difficult gold increases in value, money in circulation increases, prices go up, people think times are hard because they have to spend more to survive. When times are good gold value goes down, money in circulation goes down, prices go down, people think they are better off because they are not spending as much as they did before. Little do they realise this feeling is artificial because if values continue to go down, money is continuously removed from circulation, and prices continue to go down, recession then depression occur.

Yes money is more usable for everyday people that is because gold is the currency of nations not of everyday people.
 
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keltoi

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Come on you guys shed a bit of light and share some knowledge - so that we 'I just don't get it' people can at least start to understanding what is going on. Not just with Bitcoin but also with the whole world financial system. Where does it come from where is it going to
Read my post before this to get an idea of how things started. Capitalism is the thing here.The world financial system depends on growth, prices, wages, values, are required to go up for growth to occur. If these things go down for to long recession then depression occur. If a crash happens, like 1929 and 2007-8, then a global financial crisis occurs. Are you still with me?

Is there no-one around here who can give some sort of knowledgeable summary of how bitcoin (a virtual currency?) works and how it fits into the cashless society that is slowly but inexorably becoming the norm
Bitcoin was basically like a bartering system but now people have put prices on commodities so the bartering aspect is nearly gone. It can only be traded electronically and it can only be stored in cyber banks.

What is bitcoin mining? What is the bitcoin exchange? Who is running and organising this deal
Bitcoin mining is basically storing all the information about the bitcoin system and all of the transactions on your computer. You are in effect using your computer to keep the bitcoin system functioning. Because of this you get paid in bitcoins. Who is running the organisation, that I do not know.
I maybe very fuzzy about how this stuff actually works but what is obvious to see is that the world financial systems are fast moving away from being based on precious metals or national currencies.
That will never happen in my lifetime and I doubt it will happen in the next 3-4 generations. There has to be something tangible for the currency to be based on. Things like gold, property, etc are the basis for capitalism.

><>
Daniel 11:33
33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering.
Unfortunately knowledge is power and many people feel a need to keep others in the dark. Keeping the uneducated uneducated means they must rely on those who are educated.
 
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StanJ

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You say tithing carried over to the NT but give me an OT verse to prove it. It seems you're more interested in injecting Mechizedek into the topic. Lets take it back to bitcoins and tithing and leave everything else out of it.
Excuse me? Who died and put you in charge? I think you should leave the job of instructions to the owner and OP of this thread.
 
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