A solid example from Scripture please.

[Thatgirloncfforums]

And what do you think that means to me??????

You said that it is not a part of the Catholic or Protestant canon, as if that's important. I wish to point out that Enoch is a part of the Ethiopian canon. They are Catholic as well.

 

[Major1]

You said that it is not a part of the Catholic or Protestant canon, as if that's important. I wish to point out that Enoch is a part of the Ethiopian canon. They are Catholic as well.

Again.....that means absolutely nothing!

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Again.....that means absolutely nothing!

OK. Well, if you feel that way, why did you bring it up?

 

[Major1]

I pay it too. I am going to die one day. But, because of Jesus dying with me, I will die with him.



I thought this verse said, 'glory'?



True. I am simultaneously just and a sinner



Right. Christ is delivering me from sin, death and the devil.



Yes. We are being judged now, right?



Ok. I guess. It's strange to me to think of forgiveness as a way to escape judgement.



Both very true and comforting.


They're questions, not statements.
Also, this is a synergistic pov. Regeneration is monergistic. It's not about what I have done, but about what Christ through his Church has done for me. I became a Christian when I was baptized. Accepting him, is a lifelong venture. Insomuch as I sin, I do not yet fully accept him.



I never said that I don't. There is a real 'I' in 'I believe'. I confess Christ every Sunday when I pray the creeds with my Church family.

You asked.........
"I thought this verse said, 'glory'?"

Depends on the translation used.

You asked.......
"Right. Christ is delivering me from sin, death and the devil.'

WRONG> You have already been delivered.

You asked........
"Yes. We are being judged now, right?"

WRONG. YOUR sins have already been judged and paid for by Christ on the cross.

You said............
"I became a Christian when I was baptized."

NO MAMN! You got wet but you did not get saved.!!!

You then said..........
"Accepting him, is a lifelong venture. Insomuch as I sin, I do not yet fully accept him."

NO! Saved is done the second you receive Jesus as your Saviour!

IF you have not fully accepted Him then you are not saved. You may be religious but religion does not save you. WATER does not save you!

 

[Major1]

OK. Well, if you feel that way, why did you bring it up?

I DIDN"T. You did. YOU mentioned the Ethopian church, not me.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I DIDN"T. You did. YOU mentioned the Ethopian church, not me.

You mentioned the Catholic and Protestant churches. Why?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

You asked.........
"I thought this verse said, 'glory'?"

Depends on the translation used.

It makes a difference. Falling from God's glory is more than falling from his acceptance, which is sort of odd. It means we fell from immortality. We are naked and long to be clothed:
Gen 3:10
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
-----
When the Glory cloud left Israel, the land, Israel was regarded by God as naked (Lam 1:8). By contrast, forgiveness, is God covering his people's nakedness (Ez 16:8-17)
------
1 Cor 5: 2-5
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

1 Cor. 15:54
We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

You asked.......
"Right. Christ is delivering me from sin, death and the devil.'

WRONG> You have already been delivered.

Christ has delivered me (D-Day), is delivering me and will deliver me (Nuremberg trials)

You asked........
"Yes. We are being judged now, right?"

WRONG. YOUR sins have already been judged and paid for by Christ on the cross.

I am on the cross with Christ. It was my humanity that he assumed. I was judged and died with him, now because he lives, I am alive with and in him. This reality: judgement and grace is played out daily in my life. Lutherans call it, the distinction between Law and Gospel.

1 Cor 11:31-33
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

You said............
"I became a Christian when I was baptized."

NO MAMN! You got wet but you did not get saved.!!!

We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4

You then said..........
"Accepting him, is a lifelong venture. Insomuch as I sin, I do not yet fully accept him."

NO! Saved is done the second you receive Jesus as your Saviour!

IF you have not fully accepted Him then you are not saved. You may be religious but religion does not save you. WATER does not save you!

-------
Matt 10:38-39
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
-------
Carrying our cross is a lifelong ordeal. It wasn't automatic for Jesus. He had his via delerosa and so do we. He recapitulated our life in himself, now we through our union with him, recapitulate his life in ourselves.

 

[Major1]

It makes a difference. Falling from God's glory is more than falling from his acceptance, which is sort of odd. It means we fell from immortality. We are naked and long to be clothed:
Gen 3:10
He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
-----
When the Glory cloud left Israel, the land, Israel was regarded by God as naked (Lam 1:8). By contrast, forgiveness, is God covering his people's nakedness (Ez 16:8-17)
------
1 Cor 5: 2-5
2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

1 Cor. 15:54
We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.



Christ has delivered me (D-Day), is delivering me and will deliver me (Nuremberg trials)

I am on the cross with Christ. It was my humanity that he assumed. I was judged and died with him, now because he lives, I am alive with and in him. This reality: judgement and grace is played out daily in my life. Lutherans call it, the distinction between Law and Gospel.

1 Cor 11:31-33
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.

We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. Rom 6:4


-------
Matt 10:38-39
38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
-------
Carrying our cross is a lifelong ordeal. It wasn't automatic for Jesus. He had his via delerosa and so do we. He recapitulated our life in himself, now we through our union with him, recapitulate his life in ourselves.

Here the context suggests that modification of its root-meaning given in E. V.: “to suffer from defect,” “to fail to attain.”—“The glory of God” must here be His moral glory, His holiness and its requirements.
Romans 3:23 Commentaries: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[Major1]

You mentioned the Catholic and Protestant churches. Why?

Nope. You brough up the Ethiopian church had included the book of Enoch.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Nope. You brough up the Ethiopian church had included the book of Enoch.

You said in post 235:
Enoch is not included in the canon of the Catholic or Protestant Bibles. It was also not included in the apocrypha and it must be pointed out that this book has never been included as part of the Jewish Tanakh.
----
This doesn't make it occultic. For one, occultic has a very specific definition. Secondly, the Ethiopian Church, which is an apostolic church (founded by saint Thomas I believe), accepts it. They wouldn't have done so if it contradicted the Christian Faith, as they received it.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Um. Ok. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with what I wrote or just adding info. God's Law reflects his goodness, so....

Here the context suggests that modification of its root-meaning given in E. V.: “to suffer from defect,” “to fail to attain.”—“The glory of God” must here be His moral glory, His holiness and its requirements.
Romans 3:23 Commentaries: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

 

[Major1]

You said in post 235:
Enoch is not included in the canon of the Catholic or Protestant Bibles. It was also not included in the apocrypha and it must be pointed out that this book has never been included as part of the Jewish Tanakh.
----
This doesn't make it occultic. For one, occultic has a very specific definition. Secondly, the Ethiopian Church, which is an apostolic church (founded by saint Thomas I believe), accepts it. They wouldn't have done so if it contradicted the Christian Faith, as they received it.

You seem quick to forget what I originally said.

Again so that you can know WHY I said that Enoch is Occultic is found in Enoch 40:9-10,,,,,

‘Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’

Allow me to be clear and to the point........The Bible never mentions an angel named Raphael or Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life.

Just so that you will understand.....That is blasphemy!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel...
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against false teachers and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

The angels had/have dominion over the nations (Deut 32:8). The Law (which provokes repentance) was given through angels (Gal 3:19) The Gospel is proclaimed by angels (Luke 2: 11-13). God is enthroned between the cherubim (Exodus 25:22).

We have access to God through the blood of Christ, but when we approach him we are approaching the cherubim as well (Heb 12:22-24). Christ's mediatorship doesn't mean that he works alone. It means that the whole cosmos (including his angels) are filled with his glory and radiate his salvation (Psalm 19) .

We may have to agree to disagree on 1Enoch. I was discussing this issue with an Orthodox friend of mine and he pointed out 1 Corinthians 15:29. Christians were being baptized as an eternal memorial to the dead in Christ. That is, they had 'patron saints'. So, this example can be found in the Protestant canon.

You seem quick to forget what I originally said.

Again so that you can know WHY I said that Enoch is Occultic is found in Enoch 40:9-10,,,,,

‘Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’

Allow me to be clear and to the point........The Bible never mentions an angel named Raphael or Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life.

Just so that you will understand.....That is blasphemy!

That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel...
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against false teachers and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against false teachers and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise.

Scripture tells us that:
“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones; for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven." Matt 8:10

I tell you, in the same way, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels over one sinner who repents. Luke 15:10

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? Heb 1:14

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

So, it's not just Jesus and me. Redemption is communal

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

You seem quick to forget what I originally said.

Again so that you can know WHY I said that Enoch is Occultic is found in Enoch 40:9-10,,,,,

Your citation doesn't make Enoch occultic. Heresy doesn't imply the occult. Here is the definition of occultism:

occultism

I apologize for the parsing of my replies. I am working from my phone.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

‘Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael:

Yes. Raphael is the angel in John 5:3-5:

In these lay a great multitude of sick people, blind, lame, paralyzed, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had.

and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’

He's probably in charge of the angels who guard us and minister to us, as heirs of salvation.

Allow me to be clear and to the point........The Bible never mentions an angel named Raphael or Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life.

Mary and Joseph were set over our salvation for 30 years. Why can't angels be?

 

[Major1]

Yes. Raphael is the angel in John 5:3-5:

In these lay a great multitude of sick people, blind, lame, paralyzed, waiting for the moving of the water. For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had.



He's probably in charge of the angels who guard us and minister to us, as heirs of salvation.



Mary and Joseph were set over our salvation for 30 years. Why can't angels be?

John 5 :3-5 DOES NOT HAVE A NAMED
ANGEL!

Mary and Joseph were NOT SET over anyone's salvation.

Where in the world are you getting this nonsense? What are your sources?????

 

[Major1]

Your citation doesn't make Enoch occultic. Heresy doesn't imply the occult. Here is the definition of occultism:

occultism

I apologize for the parsing of my replies. I am working from my phone.

Not only is it Occult...it is complete Heresy and Blasphemy!

 

[Major1]

Scripture tells us that:
“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones; for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven." Matt 8:10

I tell you, in the same way, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels over one sinner who repents. Luke 15:10

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? Heb 1:14

And where in those 3 Scriptures does it say that those angels are set over the salvation of men??????

You are trying to make Scriptures say what YOU want them to say. Simply read the words of Scripture and accept them as they are printed. This is just not as hard as you are making it.

Looking down upon, servings and ministering does not = set over salvation!!!