My disagreement with Joyce Myers

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

I don't listen to Joyce Myers or any teacher but I can't get over how she wears jewelry and teaches wealth and prosperity. To me this is pride, vanity and greedy lust for money.

The jewelry I can understand a little. She claims to be abused by her father. I'm unsure if that was sexual abuse or not but maybe she feels ugly because of that abuse.

Maybe she has self esteem issues and wants to make herself beautiful. i understand that. A woman used expensive perfume to wash Jesus feet so maybe it's like that. i don't know. However she is no teacher in my opinion.

Please feel free prove me wrong however. I try to see good in people and not just faults

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Sorry. I had to edit my sloppy OP again.

RandyPNW · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
I don't listen to Joyce Myers or any teacher but I can't get over how she wears jewelry and teaches wealth and prosperity. To me this is pride, vanity and greedy lust for money.

The jewelry I can understand a little. She claims to be abused by her father. I'm unsure if that was sexual abuse or not but maybe she feels ugly because of that abuse.

Maybe she has self esteem issues and wants to make herself beautiful. i understand that. A woman used expensive perfume to wash Jesus feet so maybe it's like that. i don't know. However she is no teacher in my opinion.

Please feel free prove me wrong however. I try to see good in people and not just faults

My wife seems to like her, and watches her once in awhile. She isn't my "cup of tea," but she seems to have her heart in the right place and preaches the Gospel. She has a loud and powerful voice, particularly to Christian women.

I don't like her Faith Doctrine either. I'm not opposed to her wealth, but I don't see it as wise for her to wear her wealth around her neck!

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

RandyPNW said:
My wife seems to like her, and watches her once in awhile. She isn't my "cup of tea," but she seems to have her heart in the right place and preaches the Gospel. She has a loud and powerful voice, particularly to Christian women.

I don't like her Faith Doctrine either. I'm not opposed to her wealth, but I don't see it as wise for her to wear her wealth around her neck!

She's rich. That's not the gospel that Paul or Jesus taught us.

Diamond7 · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
I don't listen to Joyce Myers

I think she is the one that was in Manila & people killed in a fire at the place they were staying so they could attend her meeting.

I do not have any memory of ever receiving any money to serve God.

howie mandel says he loves what he does and he would do it for free. But if you want him to get on an airplane then you are going to have to pay him to do that. There is a lot pastor do outside of teaching and preaching. A labor is worthy of their wages. Even Paul talks about that. Although Paul was a tent maker and did not need the money.

My pastor use to sell me his books and magazines for half price so I could hand them out to people. I paid the cost of the printing.

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Diamond7 said:
I think she is the one that was in Manila & people killed in a fire at the place they were staying so they could attend her meeting.

I do not have any memory of ever receiving any money to serve God.

howie mandel says he loves what he does and he would do it for free. But if you want him to get on an airplane then you are going to have to pay him to do that. There is a lot pastor do outside of teaching and preaching. A labor is worthy of their wages. Even Paul talks about that. Although Paul was a tent maker and did not need the money.

My pastor use to sell me his books and magazines for half price so I could hand them out to people. I paid the cost of the printing.

Please. I'm no fool. I know luxury and wealth when I see it. Paul dressed in rags.

Diamond7 · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
Please. I'm no fool. I know luxury and wealth when I see it. Paul dressed in rags.

Ok, I will accept that for what it is worth if that is your testimony. But my wife worked hard all her life to have something to help her family with because of her love for them. Poverty is not much different from camping out or being homeless. When I was a kid we would go to summer camp because it was fun to live in a crude cabin for a week. But when you get older hot and cold running water and a toilet that flushes instead of a hole in the ground becomes welcome.

Paidiske · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
Paul dressed in rags.

I'm curious what makes you think so? Every indication we have in the New Testament is that he was a person of some means. (Educated, from a well-established family, able to travel, able to cover his own expenses, and so on).

It's been a very long time since I engaged with any of Joyce Meyer's work; too long for me to have a valid opinion. But I don't think that dressing well, including wearing jewelry, is necessarily an indication either positive or negative. The pictures I can find online of her, don't give me the impression of someone dressing at outrageous expense. She wears "statement" necklaces, true, but these don't have to cost very much.

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
I'm curious what makes you think so? Every indication we have in the New Testament is that he was a person of some means. (Educated, from a well-established family, able to travel, able to cover his own expenses, and so on).

It's been a very long time since I engaged with any of Joyce Meyer's work; too long for me to have a valid opinion. But I don't think that dressing well, including wearing jewelry, is necessarily an indication either positive or negative. The pictures I can find online of her, don't give me the impression of someone dressing at outrageous expense. She wears "statement" necklaces, true, but these don't have to cost very much.

Paul said thar the apostles dressed in rags in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.

As far as jewelry and clothes go, there is Timothy's letter

1 Timothy 2:9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
I'm curious what makes you think so? Every indication we have in the New Testament is that he was a person of some means. (Educated, from a well-established family, able to travel, able to cover his own expenses, and so on).

It's been a very long time since I engaged with any of Joyce Meyer's work; too long for me to have a valid opinion. But I don't think that dressing well, including wearing jewelry, is necessarily an indication either positive or negative. The pictures I can find online of her, don't give me the impression of someone dressing at outrageous expense. She wears "statement" necklaces, true, but these don't have to cost very much.

Paul was poor and content

Paidiske · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
Paul said thar the apostles dressed in rags in 1 Corinthians chapter 4.

It's interesting, I went and had a look. That is often translated as something like "poorly clothed," but in fact what the Greek says is naked. I suspect we need to make some allowance for Paul making a rhetorical point, there; a contrast with the Corinthians rather than an accurate description.

HopeSings said:
1 Timothy 2:9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,

This is true, and as a general rule of thumb, I'd take this as advice along the lines of, "focus more on doing good, than looking good." But most Christians have not taken this as an absolute prohibition of all jewelry or adornment.

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
It's interesting, I went and had a look. That is often translated as something like "poorly clothed," but in fact what the Greek says is naked. I suspect we need to make some allowance for Paul making a rhetorical point, there; a contrast with the Corinthians rather than an accurate description.

This is true, and as a general rule of thumb, I'd take this as advice along the lines of, "focus more on doing good, than looking good." But most Christians have not taken this as an absolute prohibition of all jewelry or adornment.

It says not to look good at all. Paul poorly dressed is not Mrs Myers. I follow real teachers

Paidiske · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
It says not to look good at all.

Well, no, it really doesn't. One can be simply and modestly dressed, and still "look good."

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
Well, no, it really doesn't. One can be simply and modestly dressed, and still "look good."

The point of modesty is to not be attractive. Note that braided hair is wrong in Timothy's letter

Paidiske · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
The point of modesty is to not be attractive.

No, it is not. It was not, culturally, in Paul's time, and it is not, now. The main point of modesty, as Paul writes about it here, is avoiding ostentatious displays of wealth.

HopeSings said:
Note that braided hair is wrong in Timothy's letter

He is talking here about the kind of elaborate braided hairstyle common among wealthy women of the day; the sort of thing that a slave might spend a lot of time and effort doing for her mistress. The modern equivalent would be spending hours at the hairdresser on a regular basis.

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
No, it is not. It was not, culturally, in Paul's time, and it is not, now. The main point of modesty, as Paul writes about it here, is avoiding ostentatious displays of wealth.

He is talking here about the kind of elaborate braided hairstyle common among wealthy women of the day; the sort of thing that a slave might spend a lot of time and effort doing for her mistress. The modern equivalent would be spending hours at the hairdresser on a regular basis.

No he says braided hair and not just for the rich but the poor as well. I doubt that all prostitutes were rich but they had nice hair I bet. You add things to scripture that are not there.

Paidiske · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
You add things to scripture that are not there.

So is saying that "It says not to look good at all," when it doesn't.

Each of us is trying to understand and faithfully apply the text. But my understanding is based on what Paul wants to promote (moderation) and what he wants to avoid; (displays of wealth through one's mode of dress).

RileyG · May 11, 2024

I very much do not like prosperity gospel because it goes against Jesus's teachings regarding the poor and underprivileged. Joyce is very wealthy and seems to flaunt it. I do not like her theology, either.

HopeSings · May 11, 2024

Paidiske said:
No, it is not. It was not, culturally, in Paul's time, and it is not, now. The main point of modesty, as Paul writes about it here, is avoiding ostentatious displays of wealth.

He is talking here about the kind of elaborate braided hairstyle common among wealthy women of the day; the sort of thing that a slave might spend a lot of time and effort doing for her mistress. The modern equivalent would be spending hours at the hairdresser on a regular basis.

You're adding to scripture things that are not there. It's your fallible opinion. Why would we want people to adore our appearance?

Isaiah 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.

PraisetheLordJesusChrist · May 11, 2024

HopeSings said:
She's rich. That's not the gospel that Paul or Jesus taught us.

Many first will be last but not all. I don’t think she should teach because she’s a woman though

My disagreement with Joyce Myers

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