Can anyone explain how the moth got it's owl eyes?

Thurston-howell-III said:

DNA is TIED to evolution, it's origins are fundamental becasue that's how evolution started.

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And I'm still saying that God could have created DNA and evolution would be perfectly fine with that. Biologic evolution starts with a population of organisms. You don't get to change the definition as you like. If you do, you're just arguing against a dumb strawman.

Thurston-howell-III said:

DNA is TIED to evolution, it's origins are fundamental becasue that's how evolution started.

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That is unlikely. It is most likely that the first living organisms didn't have DNA and evolved DNA later.

Thurston-howell-III said:

Curious to know how DNA "evolved". Did the sequences originate before the decoding mechanism did? Or the repair mechanisms?

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DNA bases can easily attach to RNA bases. It is happening inside your cells right now as you read this.

DNA is more durable (I think), but RNA is more flexible. RNA can not only serve as a "code" but also as a catalyst. (Which is what a ribosome is -- a catalyst made of RNA.)

Thurston-howell-III said:

Curious to know how DNA "evolved". Did the sequences originate before the decoding mechanism did? Or the repair mechanisms?

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Obviously the complicated repair mechanisms are not necessary for replication, so they would have come later.

A repair mechanism, by its very nature would be a selected for trait,

Thurston-howell-III said:

OH? DNA wasn't created by intelligence? really now. How do you know this? How did the defined and extremely specific nucleotides get ordered the way they are? I'll wait.

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By nature.

Now, since you're arguing that DNA was created by an intelligence, then you need to actually show evidence of that fact with DNA. No other code that is actually artificial and created, but with DNA itself.

Thurston-howell-III said:

Evolution depends on DNA and so lets not ignore the dynamics & genesis of it, ok?

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Yes, it depends on DNA, but as has been pointed: all the life in the world could have started from an actually created organism and the theory of evolution would still be sound.

Evolution is not dependent on knowing how DNA and life began, only that it was present. That's it.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Yes, it depends on DNA, but as has been pointed: all the life in the world could have started from an actually created organism and the theory of evolution would still be sound.

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So the God is Love, Prince of Peace created life to fight, mutate, claw and die its way from bacteria to man, then told us to love thine enemies?

What's the difference in your god's eyes from bacteria having to emit mycotoxins to stand their ground from invading bacteria, and the Ukraine defending itself against Russia, or Israel from Hamas?

AV1611VET said:

So the God is Love, Prince of Peace created life to fight, mutate, claw and die its way from bacteria to man, then told us to love thine enemies?

What's the difference in your god's eyes from bacteria having to emit mycotoxins to stand their ground from invading bacteria, and the Ukraine defending itself against Russia, or Israel from Hamas?

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... There really is nothing I can say in response that is not a insult towards yourself or your parentage with that question. It's the most asinine question I've ever seen you ask.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

... There really is nothing I can say in response that is not a insult towards yourself or your parentage with that question.

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Watch it now.

Keep those mycotoxins to yourself!

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

It's the most asinine question I've ever seen you ask.

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Of course it is.

It makes you think about things you never thought of before, doesn't it?

Ponder that question for awhile, then give me a straight-up answer.

Because I think it's an excellent question.

Here, Warden, let me make my point again in a less invasive way:

Evolution can't occur unless things die, vie, and sigh.

AV1611VET said:

Of course it is.

It makes you think about things you never thought of before, doesn't it?

Ponder that question for awhile, then give me a straight-up answer.

Because I think it's an excellent question.

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No, it's not. It's really not.

AV1611VET said:

Here, Warden, let me make my point again in a less invasive way:

Evolution can't occur unless things die, vie, and sigh.

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And it can't occur unless things meets, mate and reproduce either.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

No, it's not. It's really not.

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Would you know it, if it was?

I mean, evolution has a dark side that you're not taught.

But come on.

Put your thinking cap on.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

And it can't occur unless things meets, mate and reproduce either.

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What happened to "marry"?

AV1611VET said:

Would you know it, if it was?

I mean, I don't evolution has a dark side that you're not taught.

But come on.

Put your thinking cap on.

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It really doesn't have a darker side that people aren't taught. I'm more than aware of poisons and venoms in plants and animals as defences and ways to attack. I know about the life cycles of certain insects that have them start as eggs laid in living animals.

There is no 'dark side' that people aren't taught.

AV1611VET said:

What happened to "marry"?

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I was talking in generalistic terms for other species of animals. You can replace 'mate' with 'marry' if it offends your Baptist sensitivities.

Thurston-howell-III said:

Then how much luck is considered luck before you realize it's no longer just luck?

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I think that is a question for you to answer, since you doubt that luck (and natural selection) can account for evolution. How much luck is too much? And, for a single specific instance, demonstrate that the barrier is exceeded. No, vague, hand-waving, generalisations, or gish gallop avoidance tactics will be accepted.

AV1611VET said:

So the God is Love, Prince of Peace created life to fight, mutate, claw and die its way from bacteria to man, then told us to love thine enemies?

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Apparently so, which is one of the reasons I doubt the existence of your God, but accept the Janus like aspects of nature.

AV1611VET said:

What's the difference in your god's eyes from bacteria having to emit mycotoxins to stand their ground from invading bacteria, and the Ukraine defending itself against Russia, or Israel from Hamas?

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I don't have a God, so why don't you tell me what the difference is?

Thurston-howell-III said:

Then how much luck is considered luck before you realize it's no longer just luck?

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Given the number of extinct species I don't think we have exceeded our luck allowance quite yet.

Thurston-howell-III said:

AHA! can't do it can you? LOL

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No, I'm not really interested in playing equivocation games with you.