"Lay Sister White right to one side.."

Stryder06 · May 14, 2009

If the chart of prophecy Ellen is speaking of was directed by God AND all doctrines of the SDA Church are proved by the Bible THEN what Ellen said "the meaning of specific passages in the Books of Daniel and Revelation" MUST MEAN what she said it means therefore the Bible teaches it because Ellen said that's what it means and everyone knows God worked through Ellen. Viola, the Bible teaches the I.J. / soul sleep and Sabbath observance for Christians.

Just a friendly FYI, in case you didn't know. The 1843 chart was developed by non adventist, sunday keeping individuals. And the bible does teach soul sleep and the sabbath, without the aid of sister white. In this day and age of confusion and widely accepted false doctrine, it's simply nice to have someone that has written on the topics as directed by the Holy Spirit.

Pythons · May 15, 2009

Stryder06 said:
Just a friendly FYI, in case you didn't know. The 1843 chart was developed by non adventist, sunday keeping individuals. And the bible does teach soul sleep and the sabbath, without the aid of sister white. In this day and age of confusion and widely accepted false doctrine, it's simply nice to have someone that has written on the topics as directed by the Holy Spirit.

It's irrelevant what day the person who generated the Chart worshiped on Stryder, the relevancy is that prior to Ellen's endorsement of the chart it was a mere suggestion, or better put, a supposition.

Once Ellen declairs a chart, a doctrine or anything for that matter truth then the Scriptures used to support the chart and the doctrine mutate from possible support to absolute Biblical support. This is exactly HOW SDA doctrines were established and exactly how Ellen White says the doctrines were established.

As for soul sleep George Storrs taught that after he picked the idea up from another person. After Ellen declaired George correct THEN those Scriptures used to support the doctrine mutated from being possible truth to ABSOLUTE truth. Given Ellen was so clear in how SDA doctrine was established point by point it's odd you would debate against it.

djconklin · Jun 6, 2009

>Once Ellen declairs a chart, a doctrine or anything for that matter truth then the Scriptures used to support the chart and the doctrine mutate from possible support to absolute Biblical support. This is exactly HOW SDA doctrines were established and exactly how Ellen White says the doctrines were established.

That is not correct.

Pythons · Jun 6, 2009

pythons said:
Once Ellen declairs a chart, a doctrine or anything for that matter truth then the Scriptures are used to support the chart and the doctrine mutate from possible being support by the Bible to absolute Biblical support. This is exactly HOW SDA doctrines were established and exactly how Ellen White says the doctrines were established.

DJ said:
That is not correct.

How is that not correct DJ?

Ellen said:
The Lord will certainly do great things for us if we will hunger and thirst after righteousness. We are the purchased property of Jesus Christ. We must not lose our devotion, our consecration. We are in conflict with the errors and delusions that have to be swept away from the minds of those who have not acted upon the light they already have. Bible truth is our only safety.

I know and understand that we are to be established in the faith, in the light of the truth given us in our early experience. AT THAT TIME one error after another pressed in upon us; ministers and doctors brought in new doctrines. We would search the Scriptures with much prayer, and the Holy Spirit would bring the truth to our minds. Sometimes whole nights would be devoted to searching the Scriptures, and earnestly asking God for guidance. Companies of devoted men and women assembled for this purpose. The power of

God would come upon ME, and I was enabled clearly to define what is truth and what is error. As the POINTS OF OUR FAITH were thus established, our feet were placed upon a solid foundation. We accepted the truth point by point, under the demonstration of the Holy Spirit. I would be taken off in vision, and explanations would be given me. I was given illustrations of heavenly things, and of the sanctuary, so that we were placed where light was shining on us in clear, distinct rays. {8MR 320.1}

All these truths are immortalized in MY writings. The Lord never denies His word.

Ok Dj, Ellen just said when and how the points of SDA faith were established. It couldn't be any more obvious. Companies of devoted people came together to study "the Bible" and test the doctrines that learned ministers and doctors brought in and it takes Ellen White going into vision and having God show her what the Bible really teaches, come on!

In Catholicism the Holy Spirit speaks commands through the Church.

Acts 1 said:
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, UNTIL the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

I've already proved, by the Bible alone, the Holy Spirit was given by the laying on of hands from the Apostles and that it is a doctrine like baptism, and the Resurrection is a doctrine.

Someone came up in one of those early Adventist Bible meetings and suggested that the group accept, lets say, the Sabbath or the Chart of prophecy. Ellen, right out in the open, is telling you that Bible study didn't cut it whereas testing those doctrines were concerned as,

Ellen said said:
The power of God would come upon ME and I was enabled to clearly define what is truth and what is error

That is hardly proving doctrine out of the Bible my friend because Ellen has already stated that devoted companies of people met to study the Bible to test doctrine and the Bible failed BUT Ellen didn't. She established what was truth or error and that is how SDA doctrine was created - by Ellen's confirmation that so and so's BROUGHT IN DOCTRINE was correct while SO AND SO's doctrine was error = SDA's are no more Bible alone then I am.

Hey man, it's good to see you back!

Jimlarmore · Jun 6, 2009

Pythons said:
That is hardly proving doctrine out of the Bible my friend because Ellen has already stated that devoted companies of people met to study the Bible to test doctrine and the Bible failed BUT Ellen didn't. She established what was truth or error and that is how SDA doctrine was created - by Ellen's confirmation that so and so's BROUGHT IN DOCTRINE was correct while SO AND SO's doctrine was error = SDA's are no more Bible alone then I am.

Hey man, it's good to see you back!

We may need to start another thread to do this but I would be more than happy to debate soul sleep with you without using the writings of EGW if you wish. The issue of an immortal soul is just not supported by the scripture, soul sleep is. I realized this long before I became an adventist. To me the issues you are bringing up on this are ludicrous unless you can show that EGW was wrong about her endorsements of doctrines taken from the Bible by proving it from the Bible. I haven't read that many of her books but the ones I have do not in any way violate the honest interpretation of the Holy Scripture. So let's talk specific scripture here on specific doctrine and let the rhetoric on EGW as this thread says "lay to the side".

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Pythons · Jun 6, 2009

Jimlarmore said:
We may need to start another thread to do this but I would be more than happy to debate soul sleep with you without using the writings of EGW if you wish. The issue of an immortal soul is just not supported by the scripture, soul sleep is. I realized this long before I became an adventist. To me the issues you are bringing up on this are ludicrous unless you can show that EGW was wrong about her endorsements of doctrines taken from the Bible by proving it from the Bible. I haven't read that many of her books but the ones I have do not in any way violate the honest interpretation of the Holy Scripture. So let's talk specific scripture here on specific doctrine and let the rhetoric on EGW as this thread says "lay to the side".

God Bless
Jim Larmore

You know me, I'm game for it.

Jimlarmore · Jun 6, 2009

Pythons said:
You know me, I'm game for it.

Ok, since this is the place for this kind of thing I will give you the opportunity to present your Biblical case/s first. Then I will present mine in response. Do you want to start a new thread or stay here? I will be happy to start one or if you want you can it's up to you.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Pythons · Jun 6, 2009

Jimlarmore said:
Ok, since this is the place for this kind of thing I will give you the opportunity to present your Biblical case/s first. Then I will present mine in response. Do you want to start a new thread or stay here? I will be happy to start one or if you want you can it's up to you.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I can start one but it will be later tonight or tomorrow. I've got to jet over to see a friend then head over and pick up my Son who will be getting off work at around 9:30.

Jimlarmore · Jun 6, 2009

I'll be waiting.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jimlarmore · Jun 27, 2009

Still waiting

God Bless
Jim Larmore

reddogs · May 15, 2014

Sophia7 said:
I have never ridiculed her, and I do not hate her. I just do not accept her writings as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth."

Satan doesn't need full blown rejection, just a seed of doubt.

hownow · May 17, 2014

You seriously JUST NOW responded to a post made SEVEN YEARS AGO?
Wow.
Just ... wow.

That's the most pathetic display of needing to have the last word and erase someone else's statement I've seen in a long ... heck, EVER, I think. No seriously, that is truly sad. I can't imagine what's going on in your life to make you act this way, but whatever it is? I'm glad it's not in mine.

reddogs · May 17, 2014

hownow said:
You seriously JUST NOW responded to a post made SEVEN YEARS AGO?
Wow.
Just ... wow.

That's the most pathetic display of needing to have the last word and erase someone else's statement I've seen in a long ... heck, EVER, I think. No seriously, that is truly sad. I can't imagine what's going on in your life to make you act this way, but whatever it is? I'm glad it's not in mine.

I was doing a search and didn't look at the date, does it matter. Seems to you it does.

Robert Bee · Jul 9, 2015

I see the Mrs.White issue as Very strange.
There are books not written by E.G.WHITE that bear her name but are compilations that she would never have put to print .
There are a number of things SDAs get wrong SOP according to EGW are only the 5 books of the conflict of the ages series.
Willy White helped his mother with the aid of GOD.
The Testamonies for the church are checked by angels MAKING THEM ABOVE ALL HER MATTERIAL she put to print .
Marriage, Divorce & remarriage in 1909 she said GOD NEVER SHOWED ME. So do not go on her letters.
The Bible covers many EGW points yet the church refused to accept it as DOCTRINE.
I See much GOD showed EGW that the church rejecred and yet it is in the BIBLE.
LIKE going in the ARMY .Going under the law of non believers like army control.
Till death do us part is from GOD yet we see adultery and remarriage yet no BIBLE intructions.
Yet JESUS said they woman had 7 husbands???
Today HUMAN LOGIC is a problem.
"The leader of the people cause them to err and they that follow them are destroyed"
No wonder SDAs have real problems .
The WHEAT & the TARES is not in order with SDAs as well.
Take care to follow the BIBLE to the point and it all comes out different to the pastors.
I see EGW as the friend I needed always .
If "Let us make man in our image" is true the th law is the Character of GOD.!!
"The law of the lord is perfect converting the soul"
THE members should be running the church not the Conferences.
"Thy will be done on earth as it is in HEAVEN"

reddogs · Apr 20, 2024

Here is something of even more my friend Amo came across..
Christian Education (1893, 1894), page 120, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: The Value of Bible Study.

We should not allow any argument of man's to turn us away from a thorough investigation of Bible truth. The opinions and customs of men are not to be received as of divine authority. God has revealed in his word what is the whole duty of man, and we are not to be swayed from the great standard of righteousness. He sent his only begotten Son to be our example, and bade us to hear and to follow him. We must not be influenced from the truth as it is in Jesus, because great and professedly good men urge their ideas above the plain statements of the word of God.

Education (1903), page 17, paragraph 1
Chapter Title: Source and Aim of True Education

The Holy Scriptures are the perfect standard of truth, and as such should be given the highest place in education. To obtain an education worthy of the name, we must receive a knowledge of God, the Creator, and of Christ, the Redeemer, as they are revealed in the sacred word.

The Faith I Live By (1958), page 13, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Word and Works of God

In His Word, God has committed to men the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are to be accepted as an authoritative, infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the revealer of doctrines, and the test of experience.

Gospel Workers (1915), page 250, paragraph 4
Chapter Title: Helps in Gospel Work

The word of God is the standard of character. In giving us this word, God has put us in possession of every truth essential to salvation. Thousands have drawn water from these wells of life, yet there is no diminishing of the supply. Thousands have set the Lord before them, and by beholding have become changed into the same image. But these searchers have not exhausted these grand and holy themes. Thousands more may engage in the work of searching out the mysteries of salvation.

In Heavenly Places (1967), page 133, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The Great Standard of Right and Wrong
In the Word of God is contained everything essential to the perfecting of the man of God. It is like a treasure house, full of valuable and precious stores, but we do not appreciate its riches nor realize the necessity of equipping ourselves with the treasures of truth. We do not realize the great necessity of searching the Scriptures for ourselves. Many neglect the study of the Word of God in order to pursue some worldly interest or to indulge in some trifling pleasure. . . . Oh, we might better put off anything of an earthly character than the investigation of the Word of God, which is able to make us wise unto life eternal. "Given by inspiration of God," . . . the Book of books has the highest claims to our reverent attention. . . .

Mind, Character, and Personality Volume 1 (1977), page 323, paragraph 5 Chapter Title: Conscience

Take your conscience to the Word of God and see if your life and character are in accordance with the standard of righteousness which God has there revealed. You can then determine whether or not you have an intelligent faith and what manner of conscience is yours. The conscience of man cannot be trusted unless it is under the influence of divine grace. Satan takes advantage of an unenlightened conscience, and thereby leads men into all manner of delusions, because they have not made the Word of God their counselor. Many have invented a gospel of their own in the same manner as they have substituted a law of their own for God's law. (RH, Sept 3, 1901.)

That Which Contradicts God's Word Is Guesswork. --He who has a knowledge of God and His word has a settled faith in the divinity of the Holy Scriptures. He does not test the Bible by man's ideas of science. He brings these ideas to the test of the unerring standard. He knows that God's word is truth, and truth can never contradict itself; whatever in the teaching of so-called science contradicts the truth of God's revelation is mere human guesswork. (8T 325 1904.)

The Review and Herald, June 11, 1908, paragraph 2
Article Title: What the Word of God Is to Us

The Bible is the great standard of right and wrong, clearly defining sin and holiness. Its living principles, running through our lives like threads of gold, are our only safeguard in trial and temptation.

"Lay Sister White right to one side.."

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