Hi Clare,I was taught the meanings of Scripture and still had no faith in them.
It's not the preaching and teaching of the Word that brought me to faith.
What brought you to faith?
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Hi Clare,I was taught the meanings of Scripture and still had no faith in them.
It's not the preaching and teaching of the Word that brought me to faith.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.A Reformed Baptist chaplain (calvinist persuasion) once emphatically declared in a YMCA Bible Study group (that he was leading) that ..."You can't invite Jesus into your heart". No one challenged him because he believved ... "If you condition salvation on something you DO its work."
No one in the group of 8 men challenged him. If someone had he would've turned on them. Kind of like a college professor that belittles an outspoken Christian student in his psychology or philosophy class.
Someone in the group informed the YMCA Director which resulted in this chaplain giving a half-hearted apology to the group. In other words the Director o the YMCA and members in the group had enough sense to realize this chaplain had his own religious agenda.
Were you born into this world? Since salvation is conditioned on being born as a baby is it a work (by your mother)? You see the problem with your argument?If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
I dont know what in the world you talking about.Were you born into this world? Since salvation is conditioned on being born as a baby is it a work (by your mother)? You see the problem with your argument?
Doing by itself doesn't make it a work. Asking for forgiveness is a doing, not a work (if anything it is an "anti-work", the complete opposite of a work). Paying back what you owe is a doing and a work. You must make the distinction.
If you would say: "If you trust in anything else than Christ for salvation, you trust in works." That I would say is correct. But you can not say trust is a work. If you do, you really need to rethink it all. What you condition salvation on is a totally different story.I dont know what in the world you talking about.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
Doing is not equal to works. At least not in the Bible.If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
I dont know what in the world you talking about.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
Paul says >So how are we saved then? Paul says it's through faith we are saved, but if faith is a work and salvation is not of works how is that possible?
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.If you would say: "If you trust in anything else than Christ for salvation, you trust in works." That I would say is correct. But you can not say trust is a work. If you do, you really need to rethink it all. What you condition salvation on is a totally different story.
Doing is not equal to works. At least not in the Bible.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.True, but you must condition salvation on something you ARE.
Ye shall know them by their fruits...
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them....
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments...
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked...
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
That's all New Covenant scripture...
What I meant was from how you understand the Biblical concept of "doing", all kinds of doing is not a work. Repentance, prayer are not works, yet something you "do". You understand? So it's not that much what the word "works" can mean but what Paul means by work.If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
The word for works is the greek word ergon and it means:
- any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
- an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Its translated doing here Rom 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
So doing does equal works
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.What I meant was from how you understand the Biblical concept of "doing", all kinds of doing is not a work. Faith, repentance, prayer are not works, and not "doing", but it's something you do. You understand? So it's not that much what the word "works" can mean but what Paul means by work.
If you can show in Scripture where prayers or faith are referred to as works, it would help your case a lot.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.If God conditions salvation on faith, it's not works.
"it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe" (1 Co 1:21)
Nope-and repeating the same misconception won't make it true. You've bought into a relatively novel misunderstanding of the gospel. God isn't interested in making puppets, or He never would've given man a choice to begin with Eden. We can't possibly be saved without Him-we wouldn't even know where to start- but He won't save us without our allowing it, without our cooperating in His work.If you believe your faith, your believing is a condition you meet to get saved, that's works, contrary to Grace !
The one and only source that brings everyone to faith.Hi Clare,
What brought you to faith?
Yes, true faith always has works, they are the proof of true faith, no good works = no true faith (Jas 2:22-23).True, but you must condition salvation on something you ARE.
Ye shall know them by their fruits...
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them....
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new...
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments...
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked...
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
That's all New Covenant scripture...
The problem with your over simplistic theology is your mistaken thinkng that "works" leading to salvation are never inspired/guided by the Holy Spirit, but only by ones self-righteous mindset.If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.
If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.The problem with your over simplistic theology is your mistaken thinkng that "works" leading to salvation are never inspired/guided by the Holy Spirit, but only by ones self-righteous mindset.
The Apostle James was not of a pre-Roman Catholic or pre-Calvinist mindset. .So it would benefit you NOT to misinterpret the inspired words of James ...
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
By their fruits you will know them
Faith can’t be works because salvation is designed by God. To believe is not something we do, it is a type of faith we obtain from God. The type of faith that leads to salvation is not something man can posses, but something that’s given. Man is incapable of possessing the type of faith required for salvation, that would be like saying we can dictate our own salvation.If you condition salvation on something you DO its works.