WWJD Did Jesus Pray to Mary?

[prodromos]

I've never reported anyone. That is childish.

One of my posts to you in another thread was deleted after being reported.

 

[BPPLEE]

The error here is the use of the word prayer, to pray is to ask, plead or beseech and not to worship. Nothing different from asking your friend or pastor to pray for you or to make a pleading to a judge, certainly the judge is not being worshiped.
Pray Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
The meaning of PRAY is entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea. How to use pray in a sentence. ... plead (to), solicit, supplicate; Visit the Thesaurus for More . Examples of pray in a Sentence. There's little else to do now but hope and pray.
Note the word worship is nowhere in the above.

The argument is that praying to a Saint is not found in the Bible, not the definition of prayer.

 

[Cis.jd]

That is applying tradition to scripture

What is believed to be scripture is part of tradition. Nothing in scripture tells you specifically that Matt until Revelations are the true and only inspired NT, but you believe it anyway because this was passed down.

 

[timothyu]

One of my posts to you in another thread was deleted after being reported.

Not by me. I believe in free speech.

 

[timothyu]

Nothing in scripture tells you specifically that Matt until Revelations are the true and only inspired NT, but you believe it anyway because this was passed down.

Adding a comma, which did not exist, to a text, the result of which could have two totally different meanings, is an example of a common belief with no basis in scripture (as the scripture was altered).

 

[prodromos]

Adding a comma, which did not exist, to a text, the result of which could have two totally different meanings, is an example of a common belief with no basis in scripture (as the scripture was altered).

You make this claim based on how many years as a professional translator?
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to translate between two very different languages? Do you understand how something which is unambiguous in one language can become ambiguous in another unless you remove that ambiguity through the use of punctuation?

 

[timothyu]

Do you understand how something which is unambiguous in one language can become ambiguous in another unless you remove that ambiguity through the use of punctuation?

And yet punctuation was never part of the scripture to start with so you cannot say your version is correct any more than I can. I happen to think mine is correct as it corresponds to the gospel of the Kingdom. Someday, but not today.

 

[prodromos]

And yet punctuation was never part of the scripture to start with so you cannot say your version is correct any more than I can.

I know Greek. I can absolutely say your version is not correct.

I happen to think mine is correct as it corresponds to the gospel of the Kingdom. Someday, but not today.

You are the one reading with a doctrinal bias, not me.

 

[timothyu]

doctrinal bias

Is Jesus' gospel man's doctrine?

 

[Cis.jd]

Adding a comma, which did not exist, to a text, the result of which could have two totally different meanings, is an example of a common belief with no basis in scripture (as the scripture was altered).

sorry but what are you talking about?

 

[disciple Clint]

The argument is that praying to a Saint is not found in the Bible, not the definition of prayer.

and I previous addressed that with scripture.

May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.Psalm 141:2

We can also think, for example, of the last book of Scripture where this image occurs as well. We read in Revelation 5:8,

And when he (the lamb) had taken it (the scroll with seven seals), the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.cf. Revelation 8:3, 4

 

[BPPLEE]

and I previous addressed that with scripture.

May my prayer be set before you like incense; may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.Psalm 141:2

We can also think, for example, of the last book of Scripture where this image occurs as well. We read in Revelation 5:8,

And when he (the lamb) had taken it (the scroll with seven seals), the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.cf. Revelation 8:3, 4

The NIV says the prayers of all God's people

 

[prodromos]

The NIV says the prayers of all God's people

The NIV has done an extremely loose translation in that passage. I can't see any justification for it.

 

[BPPLEE]

The NIV has done an extremely loose translation in that passage. I can't see any justification for it.

Because not everyone takes saints to mean what you think it means

 

[prodromos]

Because not everyone takes saints to mean what you think it means

That makes the NIV an interpretation, not a translation.

 

[BPPLEE]

That makes the NIV an interpretation, not a translation.

That's correct. Almost all modern versions of the Bible are paraphrases. Here is a literal translation from the NKJV

Rev 8:3

Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

We still don't take saints to mean what you interpret it to mean.

 

[Psalm 27]

What does Jesus say?

Good point! That is the question.
As His words are recorded for us in The Gospels and Acts, it makes me wonder how religion can get it so wrong

 

[Psalm 27]

I've never reported anyone. That is childish.

Ive had a few tell mummy on me

 

[Psalm 27]

righteousness is actually Jesus righteousness?

All righteousness is from Jesus.

 

[Psalm 27]

out of humility

False humility, false worship