Amillennialism

LittleLambofJesus

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Being partial preterist, I have developed an interest in the Amill view, and would like to hear from those who are of this view.

First off, what is amillennialism.
[Feel free to add and other views to this]

https://www.theopedia.com/amillennialism
Overview

Amillennialism teaches that the thousand year reign of Christ mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 is symbolic of the current church age, rather than a literal future 1000 year reign.
It contends that the period described in Revelation 20 was inaugurated (i.e. began) at Christ's resurrection and will continue until His Second Coming.

Amillennialism holds that while Christ's reign during the millennium is spiritual in nature, at the end of the church age Christ will return in final judgment and establish a permanent physical reign.
Also taught by amillennialism is that the binding of Satan in Revelation 20:1-3 has already occurred, and means that "he might not deceive the nations any longer" (Revelation 20:3) by preventing the spread of the gospel. ^[2]^

Principles

There are several principles which, while not entirely unique to amillennialism, combine to form the grounding from which this understanding of eschatology springs.

The analogy of faith and biblical theology
The analogy of faith is a Reformation principle for the interpretation of Scripture, which can be expressed as "Scripture interprets Scripture".
The fundamental principle of biblical theology is that of progressive revelation, which states that God reveals Himself in increasing measure throughout history, and that His revelation climaxes in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ.

As a result of these principles, we expect the New Testament to interpret to the Old, all the while showing us God, in Christ, more clearly...................

Amillennialist theologians

What is Amillennialism?

Modern times
Amillennialism has been widely held in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches as well as in the Roman Catholic Church, which generally embraces an Augustinian eschatology and which has deemed that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught."[11]

Amillennialism is also common among Protestant denominations such as the Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Methodist and many Messianic Jews.[22]
It represents the historical position of the Amish, Old Order Mennonite, and Conservative Mennonites (though among the more modern groups premillennialism has made inroads).

It is common among groups arising from the 19th century American Restoration Movement such as the Churches of Christ,[23]:125 Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and Christian churches and churches of Christ.

It also has a following amongst Baptist denominations such as The Association of Grace Baptist Churches in England.
Partial preterism is sometimes a component of amillennial hermeneutics.

Amillennialism declined in Protestant circles with the rise of Postmillennialism and the resurgence of Premillennialism in the 18th and 19th centuries, but it has regained prominence in the West after World War II.[citation needed]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Being partial preterist, I have developed an interest in the Amill view, and would like to hear from those who are of this view.
*snip*
I am interested in the idea of Partial Preterism being combined with Amillennialism.
Sounds like a winner to me.
How many Church Denominations are of the Amill view?

The Amill view appears to be right in-between partial preterism and full preterism/fulfillment .

There is a discussion thread on the differences between PP and Amil"

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/difference-between-amillennialism-preterism.7552234/

That 1000 yr period in Revelation 20 throws a proverbial "monkey wrench" into Revelation.
I started a thread on it several years ago, but interest in it fizzled out.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7135180&page=2
Revelation 20:2 question

I tried to look at as maybe the time, times and half time shown in Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 12:14, and may look more deeper into that.
Any thoughts?
 
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Anto9us

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This may be a Safe House, but the TIME, TIMES and HALF A TIME; as well as the literalness/non-literalness of 1000 year reign are the stickiest wickets in all of eschatology.

I do have THOUGHTS on it all, and will get back to discussing them.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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This may be a Safe House, but the TIME, TIMES and HALF A TIME; as well as the literalness/non-literalness of 1000 year reign are the stickiest wickets in all of eschatology.

I do have THOUGHTS on it all, and will get back to discussing them.
Wickets.
Reminds of this hilarious movie where R.D ask "what's a widget"? LOL


I do have THOUGHTS on it all, and will get back to discussing them.
I look forward to to it. We can either start a new thread on the Christian Scriptures board [where I mainly post, or bump up my old one.
Wanna bump it up?

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/revelation-20-2-question.7135180/page-2
 
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Christian Gedge

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Im Amil, but I prefer the description, 'realized millennium' to 'no millennium.'

I became a Christian in a typical 'dispensational' church, but quickly adopted the historical premil views of George Ladd. After a while I moved the next step to Amil. I would recommend the writings of Kim Riddlebarger to anyone wishing to find a clear explanation (A Case for Amillenialism) together with a discussion on Preterist differences.
 
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Anto9us

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what to do with the 3 1/2 years -- and the 1000 year reign?

My main escape from Pre-Trib-ism came from a conviction that I saw absolutely no biblical justification for this "GAP" between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks - this business (on which pretrib stands or falls) that "the Prophetic Clock STOPPED!" and all of that.

Time periods prophesied for Israel in the past (years they would sojourn in Egypt, time in Babylonian captivity) ran consecutively and concurrently -- no GAPS -- so why shouldnt Daniels 70 shauvim run consecutively as well?

Messiah is cut off after 69 weeks.

well, immediately when 69th week ends? Or do you /can you look at it like "Middle of 70th week is indeed AFTER 69 weeks"?

Some people say the 70 weeks ran until the Stoning of Stephen -- I think Stephen was "one of those standing there that would not taste death til he saw the kingdom come with power" -- he said "I see the Son of God at the right hand of power" as he was stoned.

But who sat in the Temple as God and was destroyed by the brightness of the parousia -- and how literal is all of that?

Go ahead and revive yer thread, LilyLamb - doesnt matter where.

Hi Gedge!
 
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anna ~ grace

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Agree. Can a Catholic post here?

I was with conservative Baptists for many years, and always took at face value their literal, futurist, purely historical reading of Revelation. Now I'm learning that there's this very old, very venerable tradition in the Catholic Church of interpreting Revelation spiritually / symbolically. Which means than many things are symbols for coming spiritual trials, conditions, upheavals, and eventual triumph before Christ comes back. The millennium, too, is often read as spiritual, not a literal thousand years at all, merely a long time in which Christ will reign on earth, through the Church.

It's new to me, but it's exciting to read Revelation this way.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Agree. Can a Catholic post here?

I was with conservative Baptists for many years, and always took at face value their literal, futurist, purely historical reading of Revelation.
Now I'm learning that there's this very old, very venerable tradition in the Catholic Church of interpreting Revelation spiritually / symbolically. Which means than many things are symbols for coming spiritual trials, conditions, upheavals, and eventual triumph before Christ comes back. The millennium, too, is often read as spiritual, not a literal thousand years at all, merely a long time in which Christ will reign on earth, through the Church.

It's new to me, but it's exciting to read Revelation this way.
Of course you can post here!
Thanks for responding and glad to see this thread is generating some interest.

If I am not mistaking, the CC is Amill, tho they don't appear to be that nuch involved in future end times discussions [which I actually view as a plus]
I had this thread archived on the CC's view of the end times from the OBOB board, and if nothing has changed, they are still Amill........

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/catholic-view-of-the-end-times.7348339/
:wave: I see that on our profiles at CF, we get to choose our 'endtimes' views. Which one is Catholic? I'm having some trouble figuring it out...

I know that the Church teaches Amilleninialism - which I put in bold. What about the other ones? Is it... historic, preterist, or futurist? Pretribulation, midtribulationm, posttribulation? hmm...

aren't we partial preterists?? (but here they don't make the distinction between 'full' and 'partial')

what about the tribulation? Does the Church teach that we'll be here for that - no rapture.. right?

So many names LOL ^_^

"Choose options that best describes your beliefs regarding endtimes.
Historic
Preterist
Futurist

Amillennialism
Premillennialism
Postmillennialism

Pretribulation
Midtribulation
Posttribulation"
Definitely amillenial. Also, there will definitely be a Second Coming. I think other than that, there's some room for differing interpretations. I don't think we are required to believe certain portions of Rev. already happened, etc.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation appears to mention a few things twice, but in different ways. Here is one of them.

Revelation 1:1
An-un-covering/veiling of Jesus Christ, which gives to Him, the God,
to show to the bond-slaves of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>.

That same phrase is repeated again after the 1000 yr period, but in my view they are both the same event, another words, only 1 end time event, not 2:

Revelation 22:6
And He-said to me: "These, the Words Faithful and True. And Lord, the GOD of the spirits of the holy prophets, commissions the messenger of Him to show to the bond-slaves of Him
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>.

5034. tachos takh'-os from the same as 5036; a brief space (of time),
i.e. (with 1722 prefixed) in haste:--+ quickly, + shortly, + speedily.


 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Revelation 1:1........
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>.
Revelation 22:6...........
which-things is binding to be becoming in/en <1722> swiftness/tacei <5034>.
This appears to be another double:

Revelation 1:3
Blessed/happy the one reading, and the ones hearing, the Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it having been Written,

For the Time is-nigh/egguV <1451>. [Revelation 22:10]

Revelation 22:10
And he is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the Words of the Prophecy of the Scroll, this.

For the Time is-nigh/egguV <1451> [Revelation 1:3]

1451. eggus eng-goos' from a primary verb agcho (to squeeze or throttle; akin to the base of 43); near (literally or figuratively, of place or time):--from , at hand, near, nigh (at hand, unto), ready.


I am quite certain that Paul, Peter and James were not speaking of 2 different end times here:

James 5:8

be patient! and stand-fast! the hearts of ye,
that the Parousia<3952> of the Lord has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448>(5758);

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things yet the End has drawn nigh/hggiken <1448> (5758);

be sane then, and be sober into the prayers,

1448. eggizo eng-id'-zo from 1451; to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:--approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.

Romans 13:11

And this knowing the time, that hour it-is already out of sleep to be roused,
for now nearer/egguteron <1452> of us the Salvation than when we believed.

1452. egguteron eng-goo'-ter-on neuter of the comparative of 1451; nearer:--nearer.


 
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LittleLambofJesus

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LittleLambofJesus

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This is an event back in Genesis where Pharaoh had Joseph interpret some dream. Even tho they were different dreams, the 2 dreams were 1 dream.
I believe the same thing could be happening in Revelation.

Genesis 41:

15
And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it:
18 And, behold! there came up out of the river seven kine, fatfleshed and well favoured; and they fed in a meadow:
22 And I saw in my dream and behold! seven ears came up in one stalk, full and good:

The interpretation:

26 The seven good kine are seven years; and the seven good ears are seven years: the dream is one.
32
"And-on to be repeated doubled of the dream unto Pharaoh twice,
that being established the matter with the Elohiym,
and making the Elohiym to do of it." [Revelation 1:1, 22:6]

 
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Dave L

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I believe Amillennialism is the biblical model for eschatology. But I do not believe the kingdom is physical as the Catholics, Reformed and Lutherans do. If you strip away the visible institutional church and leave only the body of Christ, believers only, Amillennialism holds true to the scriptures.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I believe Amillennialism is the biblical model for eschatology. But I do not believe the kingdom is physical as the Catholics, Reformed and Lutherans do. If you strip away the visible institutional church and leave only the body of Christ, believers only, Amillennialism holds true to the scriptures.
Very interesting. Thanks for that post.
This could possibly be another double,
the same event where one is a view from the land while the other is a view from heaven.
I just found this so I will need to work on it. Thoughts?

Revelation 6:16
And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks:
'Be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One-sitting upon the Throne,
and from the wrath of the Lamb [Reve 20:11?]


Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne.
And the One-sitting on it, from Who's Face fled the Land and the Heaven
and place not was found to-them. [Reve 6:16]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The following is one of the best things I have ever seen on the Amill doctrine.

Former Dispensationalist, Pastor Steve Greeg on Revelation 20


.
Thanks for sharing.
Saw this post of yours on another thread and decided to bring it over here.
BABerean2 said:
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 19:41
And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a siegwork to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation".


Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Luke 19:41/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10

If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints. [Deut 28:68/Luke 21:24]

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
The Destruction of Jerusalem

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................


Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND,................

Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.






 
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Erik Nelson

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...Amillennialism teaches that the thousand year reign of Christ mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 is symbolic of the current church age, rather than a literal future 1000 year reign. It contends that the period described in Revelation 20 was inaugurated (i.e. began) at Christ's resurrection and will continue until His Second Coming
The Church = Kingdom of God began with Christ, grew from him through his Apostles & Disciples, and grew even more into the early Church of the Church Fathers era...

http://myocn.net/four-reasons-why-early-christian-church-grew-so-quickly/

So, yes, the Church as the Spiritual Kingdom of God on earth "was inaugurated (i.e. began) at Christ's resurrection and will continue until His Second Coming".

And, yet, also, meanwhile, simultaneously together at the exact same time, the Church was not only existing (= Amil)…

but also growing until it took over society under Constantine and the Council of Nicaea, ushering in a thousand years of medieval Christian-dominated society & culture (= post-mil).

If you don't accept that the Byzantine empire was a thousand-year Christian realm fulfilling Rev 20, then perhaps you could acknowledge it as a foreshadowing of the "real" Millennium of Rev 20.

The point being that Amil + post-mil can BOTH be true... the Churchly Kingdom has existed since the 1st Coming and shall (according to Scripture) until the 2nd coming (=amil)…

and yet, not only existing, but also growing until it comes to dominate society (= Millennium per post-mil)
 
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Erik Nelson

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Thanks for sharing.
Saw this post of yours on another thread and decided to bring it over here.


Luke 19:41
And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her, 42 saying, "That if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid from thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon thee, and thy Enemies shall be casting up a siegwork to thee, and shall be encompassing thee, and pressing thee every which place.
44 And they shall be leveling thee and thy offspring in thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in thee, instead which not thou knew the time of thy visitation".


Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Luke 19:41/Reve 11:2/13:10]

Revelation 13:10

If any to-captivity, into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints. [Deut 28:68/Luke 21:24]

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm
The Destruction of Jerusalem

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................


Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND,................

Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.





Titus & Vespasian = Apollyon & Abaddon ?
 
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