I would like to propose a debate in regards to the deity of Christ. I believe scripture is very clear that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. If you disagree, let me know and we will debate it.
I believe that during his days on Earth, Jesus developed as a boy, through the teenage angst, with similar wants and needs of a young man, the same carnal desires, and the same temptations as the average man. I believe he was a man with all the skills and physical attributes of a man, with the same hopes and dreams of a common man, the same mind as a man, the same physical limitations. Jesus was not superhuman. The ability to heal people was a gift from his heavenly Father. There was nothing stopping him from abusing those gifts, nothing to stop him from claiming that he was totally God. Instead Jesus praised his Father in heaven for the powers bestowed upon him. Jesus always pointed to our Father in heaven, who is the one to be glorified.I would like to propose a debate in regards to the deity of Christ. I believe scripture is very clear that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. If you disagree, let me know and we will debate it.
I believe that during his days on Earth, Jesus developed as a boy, through the teenage angst, with similar wants and needs of a young man, the same carnal desires, and the same temptations as the average man. I believe he was a man with all the skills and physical attributes of a man, with the same hopes and dreams of a common man, the same mind as a man, the same physical limitations. Jesus was not superhuman. The ability to heal people was a gift from his heavenly Father. There was nothing stopping him from abusing those gifts, nothing to stop him from claiming that he was totally God. Instead Jesus praised his Father in heaven for the powers bestowed upon him. Jesus always pointed to our Father in heaven, who is the one to be glorified.
Although Jesus was sent to Earth by God. I believe that for the first 30 years of his life, Jesus lived as an ordinary man, leading a life as a carpenter, working hard, earning a living, like the rest of mankind. Then, one day, God called upon his son to step out in faith and take responsibility for his role as king of the Jews, to lead his people to redemption and salvation. I believe that God gave Jesus free will and independent thought, so that if he wanted to he could have continued leading a quiet life as a carpenter, to marry, have children, grow old and die a physical death and remain buried in the Earth.
But, even during his ministry, I believe Jesus was totally man, who had doubts at times about who he was, who loved life to the full, and who didn't want to die. I believe that he believed his time on earth was preparation for an uprising amongst the Jews, to overthrow the Roman authorities and institute a reign on Earth. But Jesus submitted to the will of his Father and paid the ultimate price for us all.
To be "fully man" Jesus would have had a sex drive. Indeed, Jesus was tempted in all ways - but did not sin. Women were attracted to him and you can see in the gospels that he had a close relationship with one or two women.I agree with most of this except you said he had 'carnal desires'. Can you please define that?
For a proper understanding of who Jesus is, his two natures must be properly understood. Yes I agree with you Jesus was fully a man. However at the same time he was fully God. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) and yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1, 14) the creator of heaven and earth. This is called the Hypostatic Union. One man, two natures.
For eg)
As God he was worshiped, as man he worshiped the father.
As God he was called God, as man he was called a man.
He was called the son of God, and also son of man
As God he was prayed too, as man he prayed to the father.
As God he was sinless, as man he was tempted.
As God he knew all things, as man he grew in wisdom
The reason Jesus worshiped and served God the father was because in order for us to be saved from our sin, as a man Jesus had to keep the law perfectly. And part of keeping that law was to worship and serve God. If he didn't, then he would have broken the law and his sacrifice would have been of no value.
Here is where we start drifting apart. Jesus fully knew he was God in flesh. He made the claim himself that he was the eternal God. When he said " before Abraham was born I'am". He took here the divine name of God stated to Moses " tell them I'am has sent you".
Besides that I agree with alot of what you said. I have no doubt he was fully man. But at the same time he was fully God. The word was God and the word that was God became a man. (John 1:1, 1:14)
To be "fully man" Jesus would have had a sex drive. Indeed, Jesus was tempted in all ways - but did not sin. Women were attracted to him and you can see in the gospels that he had a close relationship with one or two women.
I would like to propose a debate in regards to the deity of Christ. I believe scripture is very clear that Jesus Christ is God in flesh. If you disagree, let me know and we will debate it.
What exactly were you hoping to debate? That the bible (NT) claims Jesus is god?...Or that Jesus actually is god?
Those are two different topics and I'm not sure if it's clear which one you want to debate.
Please, do not be naive. Unfortunately, there are some aspects of the life of Jesus which have been hidden from many Christians by the Church. However, these aspects can be clearly seen in the gospels, not through trickery, but simply by approaching from a particular perspective, and often even simpler than that.With Jesus being the creator off all things including woman I would have to think he looks at woman like we would look at our own daughters. There would be no sexual attraction at all. And besides that, how could a man have sexual desires and not lust? Jesus was born without a sinful nature. Most theologians agree that the sinful nature we inherit comes from the father. That's why Jesus was of a virgin, so that the sinful nature was not passed on to Christ. If Jesus looked at all other woman like his own daughters and had no sexual desires that wouldn't make him any less 'fully man'.
His deity in general. That he is God in flesh and should be worshiped as God for he is God.
That sounds like a really ambitious position to debate. If you really think you're up for advocating that position...I'll gladly argue against it.
Since you're taking the affirmative position, I assume you have no problem going first?
Sure. I won't go writing every reason for my position all in one post. I would rather tackle one thing at a time so things don't get missed. So here goes...
Jesus Christ is the eternal God and creator who came to us dressed in flesh. As a member of the Trinity, He always existed. Father, Son (The Word), Holy Spirit. There never was a time when He did not exist. He is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit.
(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Who created the heavens & the earth? God did!)
(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the word. The word was with God, and the word was God"
(John 1:2) "He was in the beginning with God."
(John 1:3) "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth. John says it was the word who is God that created all things. So logically the word who is God and became flesh, is God in flesh. He was worshipped, prayed too and is himself the eternal God in flesh and will always be the man Jesus Christ for the rest of eternity.
Probably best if you debated the Deity of Christ Jesus with someone who actually believes in God in some form. AKA a Deist. An atheist or anti-theist will just give you a list of Biblical grievances and demand you don't use the Bible.
Yes that is what I'm looking for, someone who believe in the bible. Eg, a Mormon or Jehovah witness. My apology, I should have been more clear.
Sure. I won't go writing every reason for my position all in one post. I would rather tackle one thing at a time so things don't get missed. So here goes...
Jesus Christ is the eternal God and creator who came to us dressed in flesh. As a member of the Trinity, He always existed. Father, Son (The Word), Holy Spirit. There never was a time when He did not exist. He is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit.
(Gen 1:1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Who created the heavens & the earth? God did!)
(John 1:1) "In the beginning was the word. The word was with God, and the word was God"
(John 1:2) "He was in the beginning with God."
(John 1:3) "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."
Gen 1:1 says God created the heavens and the earth. John says it was the word who is God that created all things. So logically the word who is God and became flesh, is God in flesh. He was worshipped, prayed too and is himself the eternal God in flesh and will always be the man Jesus Christ for the rest of eternity.
You don't actually hold the debate in this thread...you simply form the proposal for the debate. Like this...
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/no-historical-jesus.7912612/
Once you have the debate outlined, a moderator will set up the debate thread for you.
Ahh ok, I'm still pretty new to christian forums. Sounds kinda complicated, maybe I will hold of till Christmas is over and I'll have more time to commit.