Can you, the believer, say "no" to sin?

[Setyoufree]

Romans 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate....17 But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh.I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Okay, the answer is "no"....You, by using your converted "will" power, cannot say "no" to sin.

Perhaps that is why Christ said, "Without Me you can do nothing"!

Is there good news in our struggles with sin?

Stay tuned.

 

[Setyoufree]

Is there good news in our struggles with sin?

I'm starting this thread because I need this truth as much as anyone else because I too fail in my struggles with sin.

Now, before I continue, I do not want to give the impression that we must be perfect because that's not my intention.

Why?

Because "in Christ Jesus" we already stand complete.

That is why John states that,

"You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you." (John 15:3)

So our struggles against sin is not in order to gain heaven, because we have eternal life by our faith in Christ Jesus.

Our struggles then is to remain in Him by faith. If we don't our natures can pull us out of Christ. That's why a Christian should never practice sin as a lifestyle, but instead confess it and seek through God's grace to overcome it. Sin being defined in Romans 13:8-14

Hence growth (the fruits of the gospel) is something that we experience and it does not add our perfection in Christ Jesus. Otherwise it would be a form of subtle legalism.

With this in mind how does one grow in grace? I'll use the context of Romans chapter's 7 & 8

 

[Setyoufree]

With this in mind how does one grow in grace? I'll use the context of Romans chapter's 7 & 8

Well, as we have already read, it is not by using your converted will power. You can say no to sin for a season, but then your will power will weaken and your sin nature will get its way with your converted mind & heart.

Let's read more on this:

22 For in my inner being (my converted mind) I delight in God's law...

What law?

The law of Christ:

Rom 13:9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Back to Romans 7:23

"but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind (my will power) and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members."

So the nature we were born with wants to live for self because it is selfish. You can try to defeat it by just saying "no", needless to say you end up defeated.

First, is there any condemnation to those who are in Christ by faith even though they are failing?

Romans 8:1 gives the answer, but be careful some versions add to Romans 8:1.

Here's the answer:

"There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" (period)!

The KJV has an addition that is not there in the original. Here it is:

Romans 8:1 (KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Why is this addition wrong?

Because the converted man of Romans 7 is failing to live the good life. He is not condoning, for he hates sin. Nevertheless he is failing like most of us.

You see the KJV says only those living according to the Spirit aren't condemned. In this case the Christian struggling with sin and failing is condemned. That, my friends, is bad news and it's legalistic too.

So the KJV and a few others are wrong with this addition. More in a bit....

 

[SG9]

Romans 7:15 I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate....17 But in fact it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh.I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.

Okay, the answer is "no"....You, by using your converted "will" power, cannot say "no" to sin.

Perhaps that is why Christ said, "Without Me you can do nothing"!

Is there good news in our struggles with sin?

Stay tuned.

Dear SYF, Romans 2 comes immediately to mind when I read the verses that you posted. It seems to me that Paul has described the nature of the upright man and the nature of the Gentile when obeying the law that each posses.

I believe that Paul already knows the answers by what is written in ch 2.

I think that a comparison is warranted for rightly dividing the Word on this subject. Thanks

 

[Setyoufree]

I believe that Paul already knows the answers by what is written in ch 2.

I think that a comparison is warranted for rightly dividing the Word on this subject. Thanks

Paul doesn't get into how to walk in the Spirit in chapter 2....He does in chapter 8.

 

[SG9]

Paul doesn't get into how to walk in the Spirit in chapter 2....He does in chapter 8.

Okay, but I am only suggesting that ch2 offers much insight as to the 'why' we behave/walk as we do. I myself see the entire book of Romans needed to be ALL in context without parting it up with neglect to ch 2, is all. Thanks

 

[Tangible]

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. The sinful part of us, our flesh that bears the image of Adam, is an integral part of our physical bodies that cannot be disciplined, tamed or educated out of being a sinner. You may reduce the instance of some obvious sins, but if you are still alive you are still a sinner.

Our hope is in the Lord, not in our flesh. When we each finally receive the wages of our sin and our body dies our soul is separated from our dead flesh and enters the presence of God. At the resurrection God will raise our bodies from the dead, no longer sinful, created once again in the image of God - in the image of Christ, the firstborn from the dead.

Only in the resurrection will we be complete, a unity of body and soul, and yet without sin, living in the presence of God eternally, world without end.

Alleluia! Amen.

 

[Setyoufree]

Romasn 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Keep in mind Romans 8:1 is an extension of Romans 7:14-25 because in the original manuscripts there are no chapter and verse divisions.

Now, why is there no condemnation to the believer struggling and failing?

Verse 2:

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

So "in Christ" (and He is in heaven) the law of sin (our sin nature) and it consequences (the 2nd death) were defeated.

So "in Christ" I stand perfect now and in the judgment.

That's the good news, but is there any hope of getting past some of these besetting, additive sins in our lives?

Yes....How?

Stay tuned....

 

[Setyoufree]

Okay, but I am only suggesting that ch2 offers much insight as to the 'why' we behave/walk as we do. I myself see the entire book of Romans needed to be ALL in context without parting it up with neglect to ch 2, is all. Thanks

okay....

 

[Setyoufree]

We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners.

True...

The sinful part of us, our flesh that bears the image of Adam, is an integral part of our physical bodies that cannot be disciplined, tamed or educated out of being a sinner.

True....

Our hope is in the Lord, not in our flesh

True...hence walking in the Spirit....

At the resurrection God will raise our bodies from the dead, no longer sinful, created once again in the image of God - in the image of Christ, the firstborn from the dead.

Yes, you are speaking of perfection here....I'm not speaking to that as I already pointed out.

I'm talking about experiencing Christ...getting past some of our besetting, additive sins.

 

[SG9]

Romasn 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Keep in mind Romans 8:1 is an extension of Romans 7:14-25 because in the original manuscripts there are no chapter and verse divisions.

Now, why is there no condemnation to the believer struggling and failing?

Verse 2:

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

So "in Christ" (and He is in heaven) the law of sin (our sin nature) and it consequences (the 2nd death) were defeated.

So "in Christ" I stand perfect now and in the judgment.

That's the good news, but is there any hope of getting past some of these besetting, additive sins in our lives?

Yes....How?

Stay tuned....

Are you now saying that you and all believers are sinless and the Judgment is now in session? Please clarify this so that I can better understand what you are doing. Thanks

 

[Setyoufree]

Here's something I found:

So long as Satan reigns, we shall have self to subdue, besetting sins to overcome; so long as life shall last, there will be no stopping place, no point which we can reach and say, I have fully attained.

None of the apostles and prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived the nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ.

 

[Setyoufree]

Are you now saying that you and all believers are sinless and the Judgment is now in session? Please clarify this so that I can better understand what you are doing. Thanks

I am stating what Paul stated to the struggling sinner that in Christ Jesus we have a glorified humanity free from sin and death. That life is in Christ and He is in heaven standing before God and His Holy law. In Him we are complete now and in the judgment. We stand just by faith.

 

[SG9]

I am stating what Paul stated to the struggling sinner that in Christ Jesus we have a glorified humanity free from sin and death. That life is in Christ and He is in heaven standing before God and His Holy law. In Him we are complete now and in the judgment. We stand just by faith.

I still don't get it. It first sounds like Paul is saying that he can't persuade the spirit within as having a wicked nature but then you are saying that we now have this ability that Paul did not then?

If we have it now, why then do we need Christ to return, et al? Please clarify this as it's still not clear in your reply. Thank you

 

[Emmy]

Dear Setyoufree. Jesus tells us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Jesus also points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. God wants our Love. In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus tells a Lawyer: " You know the 2 Commandments to love God with all your heart, and love your neighbour as yourself, DO THIS AND YE SHALL LIVE. Jesus would not tell us to Love God and love our neighbour, if that would be impossible for us. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told to " ask and ye shall receive," again the Bible tells us plainly that to Love as God wants us to love, is POSSIBLE.
The Bible tells to " Repent," and to "Be Born Again." We can ask for Love and Joy, and we know how to share such Love. In Matthew 5: 48: Jesus tells us:
Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in Heaven, is perfect.
That is straightforward and easy to remember, also it must be possible, if Jesus advises us to. Remember Setyoufree, we are also advised to keep asking for what we need, in Matthew 7: 7-10. Would Jesus do all that, if He
knew that we were unable to do so? God knows how hard it is for us to be perfect, but all the same, we are asked to become as God wants us to be.
We may be sure that our Heavenly Father Loves us, and if God wants us to
"Repent," and give up our selfishness and unloving way of life, and become Loving God with all our beings, and love our neighbour as we love ourselves,
if God wants us to become like this, then God will also know it is possible for us. We have years to become better and better, and God will know whether we have tried sincerely to follow His Loving advice to us, or whether we have simply ignored it. The fact is simply: God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters to live eternity with. Jesus our Saviour will help and guide us:
JESUS IS THE WAY. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Setyoufree]

I still don't get it. It first sounds like Paul is saying that he can't persuade the spirit within as having a wicked nature but then you are saying that we now have this ability that Paul did not then?

If we have it now, why then do we need Christ to return, et al? Please clarify this as it's still not clear in your reply. Thank you

Now you are confusing me....I really don't want to get off the topic here, so maybe you should start another thread. Maybe call it "the truth as it is in Christ" or something like that. This thread is donated to Christian living....

 

[Setyoufree]

Dear Setyoufree. Jesus tells us in Matthew 22: 35-40: " Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Jesus also points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions tagged on. God wants our Love.

God actually wants our faith because we, by nature, do not have agape. I know that's a bit deep, but....

 

[Setyoufree]

Romasn 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Keep in mind Romans 8:1 is an extension of Romans 7:14-25 because in the original manuscripts there are no chapter and verse divisions.

Now, why is there no condemnation to the believer struggling and failing?

Verse 2:

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

So "in Christ" (and He is in heaven) the law of sin (our sin nature) and it consequences (the 2nd death) were defeated.

So "in Christ" I stand perfect now and in the judgment.

That's the good news, but is there any hope of getting past some of these besetting, additive sins in our lives?

Yes....How?

Stay tuned....

Okay...moving forward:

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

That's the good news for all believers because all of us are struggling with sins of the flesh.

But, is there good news in overcoming some of our besetting sins? Yes, but it is not something we merit. As I stated we are already perfect in Christ. Therefore it is something we experience while waiting Christ's return.

Verse 3: "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did:"

What couldn't the law do? Gal 3:21

"If a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law"

So the law is incapable of producing righteousness in our fallen flesh. As Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh". In other words we are 100% sinners and even the good things we do are polluted with selfishness & self-interest.

So what's the solution to overcoming temptation from within?

"3 God, sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He (God) condemned sin (where?) in the flesh,

Why? Primarily to save us, but secondarily so that we can experience Christ...


4 so that the requirement of the Law (agape) might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

So while the law can't produce in us righteousness, the law of the Spirit that was in Christ can defeat "sin in the flesh" as we stop trying to defeat sin with our will power and instead let God have the struggle.

The problem with this is that it is hard for us to give up trying! We like to be in control, but if we are going to experience growth in grace then we must allow the Spirit of God to take control of our natures when tempted. If we try, using our will power, we will always fail.

So, what I'm going to do the next time I'm tempted with a certain besetting sin I am going to say "No", because "greater is He that is in (me), than he that is in the world" (1 John 4:4)

And Paul says, "11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12 It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age....[Titus 2:11,12]

So there's hope in our struggles....

 

[Setyoufree]

"So that the requirement of the Law (agape) might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

I don't know if any of you caught this? From a legal stand point the law demands a righteous life without sin, period. So is that what Paul is thinking?

No! The believer isn't under law because if he were he would never see heaven...never!

"By the works of the law no one will be justified in God's sight"

So Paul is not thinking of one keeping rules outwardly. Then what?

Let's go back to Romans 13 verse 9-10

The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Do you realize that outwardly some can keep these rules? And many do and they think, "I don't need Christ, because I am a good person!" Still others, in Christian circles, think they can earn salvation. But verse 10 brings out the ingredient we need in order to love our neighbors as we do ourselves. That ingredient is "agape".

10 "Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore [agape] is the fulfillment of the law."


Without "agape" every rule we keep, even the above commandments, are polluted with self-interests. So in reality without "agape" the commandments cannot be kept.

Keeping the law without agape is not keeping the law, rather it's keeping sin. It's the flesh trying to look holy. That's called self-righteousness and the Jews of Christ's time we experts at this.

 

[SG9]

Now you are confusing me....I really don't want to get off the topic here, so maybe you should start another thread. Maybe call it "the truth as it is in Christ" or something like that. This thread is donated to Christian living....

What's wrong with posting truth here to where I must start another thread to post Truth in Christ? I still don't get it, but yet, maybe I do. Thanks

I'll leave you alone, now, and have fun at doing your works.