Why we should believe God created all of Nature, and what that means...

[Divide]

God talks to you? Wow. What did He say?

After I learned to hear His still small voice or when He spoke to me audibly the one time? I'll tell you all about it.

 

[friend of]

After I learned to hear His still small voice or when He spoke to me audibly the one time? I'll tell you all about it.

Please post about it in this thread as I am also curious ty

 

[Divide]

Who said anything about disproving that God exists. I have no interest in doing so. Why would I?

And there's no solid way to "know" that God, in fact, DID create everything. We can surmise as much. We can even make dogmatic affirmations that we believe He did, but our saying these affirmations doesn't reflect that we are in an epistemologically justified position of mind in relation to His "acts" of creation.

We need to just deal with reality as it is and stop pretending that we know when we really don't.

The upshot of all of this is: atheists should also stop pretending that they're fully justified in "knowing" God didn't create anything ... ...

It was the first of this that made it sound like you don't believe.

I re-read it and I seee the last line implies you are not an atheist. So your somewhere in between.

The good thing about being a believer is that we take the first step and believe. I say, ok I trust you Lord. Then made it my business to seek Him and when we are actively seeking him and obeying His word, then He will reveal Himself to you. Not in a way that you can test in a laboratory, but you yourself will know in the very core of your being. He talks to us all the time!

 

[Divide]

Please post about it in this thread as I am also curious ty

Who would say no to that offer so I might as well get it written, lol.

I will talk about how I learned to hear the still small voice of God. This is one of those things where it's sorta hard to learn but easy to do. I dunno how it would work for you, but it did for me.

You ever been on a job and it wasnt going well and you said, Oh Jesus please help me. Everybody has those days. It happened to me. The job was not cooperating so I prayed and asked for help from God. I had to be somewhere later at a certain time and didn't plan to work late. But after I said my Amens I went back to work. WHat else could I do but keep working? Except everything fell into place this time and I had no further problems! Praise the Lord, I should have invited Him sooner! So I started inviting the Lord to go to work with me in the mornings. The first morning, I intended to not ignore Him and pretnd that He was sitting beside me, my best friend and helper. It occured to me that this is foolishness what am I doing? Playing a child's game?! So I thought, hmm that's what scripture says. Become as a little child. So I said, play a game of it? I can do that.

I figured that how I would do it is to speak to Lord sittingg beside me and then pause talking, and the first thing that pops into my head is His answer. It's just a game, right? And we would ride around in the truck and I would talk to Him between service call while I drove to the next one. And I wound ponder the first thing that popped into my head and consider if it answered my question or not? And it seemed like it did. So I kept doing it I kid you not it turned into regular conversations! He doesn't always answer all of my questions, but the way He talks...it isn't like how I talk or think. He always seems to say the right thing the right way. Even when He has said things to me, that I did not want to do. And sometimes He changes the subject! That's when my carnal brain said uh, what? He doesn't answer all questions but what He does say is relevant and perhaps a small epephiny comes with it, but wow, that sounds like something Jesus would say. EVery time.

His speech patterns are very different than mine. And He will speak and if I am open to hear what comes into my head, I will. Sometimes it is speech. Sometimes it can be a scripture. (Which always turns out to be relevant!)

One day I was inside the house working. I never invited Him to come inside with me because I'm dealing with a customer. But anyway, the job was not cooperating. It kept blowing the low voltage fuse. and I know how to test and find the short. Except I couldn't find it. There were no arc marks where a wire shorted and eventually I tested every single wire on the unit. I could not find it. Nothing tests bad. I'd fiddle with it and test and disconnect and reconnect wires and put it a fuse and boom, as soon as power hits it. I kept looking and was getting low on fuses. And I was at, I'm done I can't do it. I can't find the short. And I left Jesus sitting in the truck no less. Long time. I prayed and invited Him in and asked for help. I didn't do anything else to it except put a new fuse in the recepticle and reconnect all the wires and I left the power switch off. I was packing up my tools thinking about what I can tell the customer. And while I am pondering that the customer comes downstairs walks over and flips on the power switchand says. finished? But the furnace did not short out this time it lit quickly and smoothly. And the customer says, ah you are finished! Thanks, I was cold!

After that I started inviting Jesus inside the house with me while I work. Lol! Things did go smoother. You can't forget about Him just because you can't see Him. He is there. You have to give Him your attention like your best friend is with you. I did forget Him one time and I turned on the radio...and it was very clear and inside of me...please turn off the radio. I havent turn it on since!

That's how I learned to hear the small voice of God. Everybody has multiple voices within them selves even if they dont know it. If you pay attention, you can tell who's talking. We all have our carnal mind, the one we think is so smart lol. And we all have a conscience that we hear. Everybody hears it. I *think* that our conscience is the voice of our spirit talking to us.

There was one time that the Lord stoped me from being arrested. I prayed for help and He answered me in the still small voice, but it was like the still small voice turned up a bit in volume! But that's too long and for another thread or post.

Everyone who is born again and we sit around our houses and tink I'd like to do more for the Lord but then we fail to ask. We have not because we ask not. So when you stay your mind on the Lord who is beside you whether you talk to Him or not, He is there and He is talking to you. That's what He told me.

 

[Diamond72]

In summary, our thoughts program our genes. If you are always negative or complaining then you might just get cancer or something. If the OT is types and shadows of the future, then where and when we live is types and shadows of heaven?

I believe our thoughts and emotions play a significant role. When I did construction work there were things that were impossible. But we kept working away and then all of a sudden all the pieces would fall into place. People like the Hindu and the law of attraction people believe in having positive thoughts and attitude.

 

[Diamond72]

It kept blowing the low voltage fuse.

What I remember the most is running a wire through the ceiling and walls and it just seemed impossible. But somehow I got the job done. Although I usually try to avoid running wires like that.

 

[friend of]

Thanks for sharing Divide

 

[Divide]

What I remember the most is running a wire through the ceiling and walls and it just seemed impossible. But somehow I got the job done. Although I usually try to avoid running wires like that.

Not on my call. I isolated the t-stat and jumped the board and it still blew fuses.

I remember those jobs. My favorite. Lol!

 

[Divide]

I believe our thoughts and emotions play a significant role. When I did construction work there were things that were impossible. But we kept working away and then all of a sudden all the pieces would fall into place. People like the Hindu and the law of attraction people believe in having positive thoughts and attitude.

Our thoughts play a direct effect on the health of our flesh body. We either feed it positive things or we feed it negative things. The brain is the chemist that mixes different things together before sending it as a signal to the genes receptors.

That must be why scripture says even to lust after a woman in your mind makes you guilt of adultery. Think on these things it says.

Phillipians 4:8-9
8 And now, dear brothers and sisters, one final thing. Fix your thoughts on what is true, and honorable, and right, and pure, and lovely, and admirable. Think about things that are excellent and worthy of praise.
9 Keep putting into practice all you learned and received from me—everything you heard from me and saw me doing. Then the God of peace will be with you.../NLT

It's telling to think about what is good and honoable. Positive thinking and casting down bad thoughts. This is not so much an obedience thing as it is a health thing..

The way the video showed it, a gene teeny and roundish with little antennas sticking up all over it, receptors. That hets fed from the brain. What feeds our brain?

Our thoughts! I'll see if I can find that video for you.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

Ok. It's very very very much helpful and best for people that they read fully all of Exodus chapters 19 and 20, and really listen. If they do, they will be profoundly moved and amazed I think. If they really listen. It's so unlike anything that most people might expect or imagine. God is real.

Those who broke through the bound to gaze upon the mountain and the Lord = Stott, and a Swiss, and an American.

(Stott didn't understand time.)

 

[Diamond72]

So, then you have both nature operating as God made it to do, and also additionally He intervened at times to make Earth a perfect home for us.

The problem with miracles is that everything is restored to the way God intended for it to be. So the real burden is to prove there was a problem that needed a miracle to resolve. Usually people say the test results were in error or something like that.

 

[Halbhh]

So the real burden is to prove there was a problem that needed a miracle to resolve

Sure -- we cannot know what portion was simply God's perfect design of Nature, from the start -- physics/chemistry -- just nature working to do it all as He created it to do: naturally creating planets, some a lot like Earth in mass and water content and distance from a sun-like star here and there perhaps. So, that He might choose one, to protect and enhance.... Further, when God did intervene, He would of course make that impossible to detect for non believers, in keeping with the rule that He wants 'faith' from us -- which is to believe in Him, and in Christ, before having proof. (see Hebrews 11:1 in a modern translation like the NIV, ESV, etc.)

So, therefore, all easy proof of God must be absent, to allow for a chance for faith to happen.

So, for instance, we'd certainly never find some evidence of the actual Garden of Eden, or...say, clear evidence of genetic modification to create modern humans, etc. -- anything that seemed miraculous or impossible to happen naturally...as any such enduring physical evidence of the miraculous would constitute evidence/proof of God, and thus preclude the chance to come to faith without having proof of God.

 

[OldAbramBrown]

... never find some evidence of the actual Garden of Eden, ...

Surely creation didn't happen in the Garden of Eden, which was near Lake Urumiya (and similar places were elsewhere).

However, almost all of this thread is very inspiring, thanks.

 

[StuartB]

So this is one part of God creating nature and everything. If God created everything that must include sin. So the nature of humans is made by God, but also called sin by Religion? Did God mess up? Is religion trying to scare or control people?

I don't get it

 

[Halbhh]

So this is one part of God creating nature and everything. If God created everything that must include sin. So the nature of humans is made by God, but also called sin by Religion? Did God mess up? Is religion trying to scare or control people?

I don't get it

We have agency -- intelligence and the ability to think and make choices and then do actions.

This enables us to love. But this same freedom of thought and action also enables us of course to do wrongs also.

In order for us to be able to love, we must also be able to do wrongs too. Both arise from agency -- sometimes called "free will".

So, it seems we are here on Earth to live and learn and make choices about who we want to be....

It's clear to me now that some of us (like me) need(ed) decades of experience to learn to choose good instead of evil, and to learn to trust God.

Adam and Eve's key wrong was to distrust God, and that is how they broke the perfect relationship they began with, and then had to be put into a mortal life with suffering in order to learn these crucial lessons by experience, the hard way... Just like Adam and Eve though, most of us have to learn that way!

We individually have different amounts that we need to learn it seems. Some are exceedingly good at loving everyone already at even as very young/small children, but many of us need more time to learn to love others well (to love all people, not just a favored few....).

Some of us seem to trust God easily from the start, and others seem to need to learn by experience....

So, it takes different individuals it seems different experiences and different amounts of time -- those that are willing to turn to the Good, to Christ and His Way.... -- but that's why we are here.

We are here to choose.

Which do we prefer -- evil or Good? Which do we truly value the most in our hearts, and which path do we want to follow and progress along?

 

[StuartB]

I'm not too sure that helps, especially those who never turn to God. (I don't believe in eternal suffering, as that's not good news as half the world don't believe, or follow another faith)

Also, Roman 11:32 states that God has consigned everyone to disobedience and unbelief, so that he may show mercy on all. So is it really true that God would do that then condemn those who sin or don't believe?

 

[Diamond72]

So this is one part of God creating nature and everything. If God created everything that must include sin. So the nature of humans is made by God, but also called sin by Religion? Did God mess up? Is religion trying to scare or control people?

I don't get it

You can ask this question as many times as you want, but the answer is always going to be the same. God gives us what people call free will to decide if we want to love and serve Him or not. All of creation is in a fallen state and in need of redemption. A time is coming when the lion will lie down with the lamb. A little child shall lead them. God's creation will no longer devour itself. We are given the opportunity to see the consequences of a world that is living in rebellion against God. Love is not love unless it is freely given.

Isaiah 11:6-9​

6The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid, the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. 7The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den. 9They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

 

[Diamond72]

So is it really true that God would do that then condemn those who sin or don't believe?

We have a choice and God will hold people accountable for the choice they make when the books are opened and they will be judged according to how they lived their life.

19I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live, 20and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, Deuteronomy 30 19

There is another scripture where we are told to choose health.

 

[Halbhh]

I'm not too sure that helps, especially those who never turn to God. (I don't believe in eternal suffering, as that's not good news as half the world don't believe, or follow another faith)

Also, Roman 11:32 states that God has consigned everyone to disobedience and unbelief, so that he may show mercy on all. So is it really true that God would do that then condemn those who sin or don't believe?

We recently did Romans in one of our bible studies, and I remarked after we finished chapter 8 that practically the entirety of chapters 2 through 8 was like one relatively long passage where many parts of it cannot be understood in isolation, but rely on other parts in various places inside chapters 2 through 8 in full, in entirety.

But still, there are a few sentences and phrases that can stand alone, like the wonderful Romans 3:23-24.

Which brings us to your topic, which really is best summed up there in Romans 3:23-24. Earlier in chapter 3, Paul is making key points though we need to notice -- how it is that all people are sinful, but there is more I feel I should say.

This: sin isn't some smallish thing that it would not really hurt to allow into heaven.

Instead, it's deadly stuff, like slander -- which eats away at love and trust and makes people angry and if unrepented leads to strife and in time even hatred....

Deadly stuff. That's why it cannot be allowed into heaven

And we all fall short -- all of us have done wrongs, even if they are smaller things, it all adds up.... -- and therefore we all need full repentance -- to truly change and no longer do those wrongs...

That's why Christ came, to save us all who would admit our sins and turn to Him for redemption -- truly admitting we have been wrong, doing wrongs....

So that we get real reform.

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

 

[StuartB]

You can ask this question as many times as you want, but the answer is always going to be the same. God gives us what people call free will to decide if we want to love and serve Him or not. All of creation is in a fallen state and in need of redemption. A time is coming when the lion will lie down with the lamb. A little child shall lead them. God's creation will no longer devour itself. We are given the opportunity to see the consequences of a world that is living in rebellion against God. Love is not love unless it is freely given.

Isaiah 11:6-9​

6The wolf shall live with the lamb, the leopard shall lie down with the kid, the calf and the lion and the fatling together, and a little child shall lead them. 7The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8The nursing child shall play over the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put its hand on the adder’s den. 9They will not hurt or destroy on all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

I don't really buy the free will thing. I didn't have the free will to come here, or to be a sinner, and if i had free will wouldn't God have granted my prayer request to be taken out of this world? I don't like being here.