Why is non-belief so terrible?

[Borel]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?" Why should it earn you eternal torture? Especially as your god hasn't left any clear indicators that he even exists?

I reject the concept of a god, I do not reject what that concept stands for (except for the stuff in the Bible even many Christians reject). My point is, I am not evil.

And, it's not like I choose not to believe. I can't control it. Because I've never encountered anything in my life that would indicate the existence of a supreme deity (especially a specific deity) I find it very hard to believe in one. I understand if someone heard a voice from the skies or something like that and concluded a god was behind it (not commenting on if I would find such evidence satisfactory), but I have never encountered anything that would give me a reason to believe in a god.

I can understand punishment (although not eternal torture or anything like that) to someone who believes your god is real and still turns their back to him and worships the devil.

Thoughts?

 

[MARK777]

Hi, my understanding of this so far is that, Our God is the God of creation, all things that exist came into being because of him, and continue to exist through him.

Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Just as animals have a natural order in the world so did we, we was made to be in fellowship with God our Father and Creator, however now as we live completely according to ourselves, we are seperated from God.

However even tho we were seperate from God we still have the desire in our hearts for that which is Eternal.

It is God who set the desire for that which is eternal in the Heart of Man

Eccl 3:11
He has also set eternity in their heart…

Our Creator, in his Grace has designed us with a desire in our hearts that can only be fulfilled through a relationship with him.

Ps 42:1 As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God;

Ps 63:1
O God, Thou art my God;
I shall seek Thee earnestly;
My soul thirsts for Thee, my flesh yearns for Thee,

This thirst that can only be quenched by God himself and this desire for that which is eternal is said to be evident within ALL men.

However because of our seperation from God there was nothing we could do on our part to bring ourselves back in line with him, we cannot be in fellowship with him in our own power because, we do not know him, we do not know his will for us, and we do not know our true calling and true self which is revealed through him.

Therefore God had to do something on his part, to bring man back to him while he remains perfect.

This was the purpose of Christ our savior, to bring us back to God, so we can live in fellowship with God again.

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

However you are saying you have not had any clear evidence that God actually exists, but the bible teaches that not only does he exist, but he also loves us so much that even tho we had fallen away from him, he found a way that cost him so much on his part to bring us back to him, but this is the only way we can get to know God personally, but if we cannot except this and get back into fellowship with God, then we will remain out of fellowship at death, meaning we will be seperated from God eternally.

Its our belief in Christ as our savior that brings us back in line with God, because through our belief we except the payment he bore on behalf of all of man, and through this we can enter fellowship with God becuase the ultimate price was already payed for us and because of this we are made clean, he bore the punishment that we as mankind deserved, even tho he was perfect, but because of this great sacrifice on his part, deniel of this will mean we cannot enter into fellowship and therefore cannot enter into his kingdom.

As you say that you beleive you are not an evil person, I can believe this also, but the fact is that although you may be a good person, you are still seperated from God and as such do not know him, if you desire to know God then you must except his free gift of salvation, we are not only saved from ourselves but saved from the world, the fact that we live on this earth that is full of lies means the we have all become unclean and out of fellowship regardless of how good we may think we are.

Hope this helps clarify a few things for you and hope you find all the anwers you are looking for.

In Christ,
Mark.

 

[m0rk]

And, it's not like I choose not to believe. I can't control it. Because I've never encountered anything in my life that would indicate the existence of a supreme deity (especially a specific deity) I find it very hard to believe in one. I understand if someone heard a voice from the skies or something like that and concluded a god was behind it (not commenting on if I would find such evidence satisfactory), but I have never encountered anything that would give me a reason to believe in a god.

Hi Borel

You're turning around the idea to suit yourself/ your resoning. It isn't God that isn't showing himself to you, it's you that is casting a blind eye in his direction.

 

[brinny]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My question is: "Why is non-belief so terrible?" Why should it earn you eternal torture? Especially as your god hasn't left any clear indicators that he even exists?

I reject the concept of a god, I do not reject what that concept stands for (except for the stuff in the Bible even many Christians reject). My point is, I am not evil.

And, it's not like I choose not to believe. I can't control it. Because I've never encountered anything in my life that would indicate the existence of a supreme deity (especially a specific deity) I find it very hard to believe in one. I understand if someone heard a voice from the skies or something like that and concluded a god was behind it (not commenting on if I would find such evidence satisfactory), but I have never encountered anything that would give me a reason to believe in a god.

I can understand punishment (although not eternal torture or anything like that) to someone who believes your god is real and still turns their back to him and worships the devil.

Thoughts?

because there will come a time when you will face the living, the real God...

"it is a terrible thing to fall into thje hands of the living God..."

 

[Borel]

Hi, my understanding of this so far is that, Our God is the God of creation, all things that exist came into being because of him, and continue to exist through him.

Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Just as animals have a natural order in the world so did we, we was made to be in fellowship with God our Father and Creator, however now as we live completely according to ourselves, we are seperated from God.

However even tho we were seperate from God we still have the desire in our hearts for that which is Eternal.

It is God who set the desire for that which is eternal in the Heart of Man

Eccl 3:11
He has also set eternity in their heart…

Our Creator, in his Grace has designed us with a desire in our hearts that can only be fulfilled through a relationship with him.

Ps 42:1 As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God. My soul thirsts for God, for the living God;

Ps 63:1
O God, Thou art my God;
I shall seek Thee earnestly;
My soul thirsts for Thee, my flesh yearns for Thee,

This thirst that can only be quenched by God himself and this desire for that which is eternal is said to be evident within ALL men.

However because of our seperation from God there was nothing we could do on our part to bring ourselves back in line with him, we cannot be in fellowship with him in our own power because, we do not know him, we do not know his will for us, and we do not know our true calling and true self which is revealed through him.

Therefore God had to do something on his part, to bring man back to him while he remains perfect.

This was the purpose of Christ our savior, to bring us back to God, so we can live in fellowship with God again.

1 Peter 2:24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

However you are saying you have not had any clear evidence that God actually exists, but the bible teaches that not only does he exist, but he also loves us so much that even tho we had fallen away from him, he found a way that cost him so much on his part to bring us back to him, but this is the only way we can get to know God personally, but if we cannot except this and get back into fellowship with God, then we will remain out of fellowship at death, meaning we will be seperated from God eternally.

Its our belief in Christ as our savior that brings us back in line with God, because through our belief we except the payment he bore on behalf of all of man, and through this we can enter fellowship with God becuase the ultimate price was already payed for us and because of this we are made clean, he bore the punishment that we as mankind deserved, even tho he was perfect, but because of this great sacrifice on his part, deniel of this will mean we cannot enter into fellowship and therefore cannot enter into his kingdom.

As you say that you beleive you are not an evil person, I can believe this also, but the fact is that although you may be a good person, you are still seperated from God and as such do not know him, if you desire to know God then you must except his free gift of salvation, we are not only saved from ourselves but saved from the world, the fact that we live on this earth that is full of lies means the we have all become unclean and out of fellowship regardless of how good we may think we are.

Hope this helps clarify a few things for you and hope you find all the anwers you are looking for.

In Christ,
Mark.

You say that belief in Christ as our savior brings us to God, however, I do not believe in Christ as our savior for about the same reasons I do not believe in God. I would gladly accept any payment he may have paid for me, however, I do not believe he paid anything. Also, to accept our universe is the creation of God, one would first have to assume he even exists, and that doesn't work for me.

Anyway, thanks for your answer.

 

[Borel]

Hi Borel

You're turning around the idea to suit yourself/ your resoning. It isn't God that isn't showing himself to you, it's you that is casting a blind eye in his direction.

Hi,

Why didn't God create me with an eye that could see, then? Did he create me with a blind eye, and then blame me for not seeing? I've been searching, but I have found nothing.

Thanks for your answer.

 

[brinny]

Hi Borel. You forgot post #4.

 

[Borel]

because there will come a time when you will face the living, the real God...

"it is a terrible thing to fall into thje hands of the living God..."

Sounds a little like a threat, doesn't it?
Why would it be terrible to fall into the hands of our loving Creator? Or do you not see him as such? Or maybe I just don't understand what you're saying.

Thanks for answering, though.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
because there will come a time when you will face the living, the real God...

"it is a terrible thing to fall into thje hands of the living God..."

Sounds a little like a threat, doesn't it?
Why would it be terrible to fall into the hands of our loving Creator? Or do you not see him as such? Or maybe I just don't understand what you're saying.

Thanks for answering, though.

Just how well do you know this living God, the Alpha and the Omega, Who rides the wind, Who has the earth as His footstool, Who declares that there will be no other gods before Him, and Who hates sin, Who will cast away all who reject His Son, Who paid such a price for us sinners? We are to fear Him. Do you know what that means?

 

[Borel]

Hi Borel. You forgot post #4.

Patience.

 

[Borel]

Just how well do you know this living God, the Alpha and the Omega, Who rides the wind, Who has the earth as His footstool, Who declares that there will be no other gods before Him, and Who hates sin, Who will cast away all who reject His Son, Who paid such a price for us sinners? We are to fear Him. Do you know what that means?

I do not know him very well (I haven't read Bible if that's what you meant). Your god sure sounds like someone to fear. So what's your answer to my question?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Just how well do you know this living God, the Alpha and the Omega, Who rides the wind, Who has the earth as His footstool, Who declares that there will be no other gods before Him, and Who hates sin, Who will cast away all who reject His Son, Who paid such a price for us sinners? We are to fear Him. Do you know what that means?

I do not know him very well (I haven't read Bible if that's what you meant). Your god sure sounds like someone to fear. So what's your answer to my question?

You could've included the post # the question is in or posted it, or do you want me to just go pick one at random?

Yes, this God i believe is is to be feared. There are Bible verses that describe Him as terrible, wrathful, a Warrior God. He is, ultimately, holy. Un-holi-ness, or sin, will be destroyed by Him to the nth degree and then some. This Creator is just as capable of destroying and casting from His presence. A verse describes Him as spitting from His mouth those who are dismissive of Him....lukewarm.....not caring one way or the other.

 

[Borel]

You could've included the post # the question is in or posted it, or do you want me to just go pick one at random?

Yes, this God i believe is is to be feared. There are Bible verses that describe Him as terrible, wrathful, a Warrior God. He is, ultimately, holy. Un-holi-ness, or sin, will be destroyed by Him to the nth degree and then some. This Creator is just as capable of destroying and casting from His presence. A verse describes Him as spitting from His mouth those who are dismissive of Him....lukewarm.....not caring one way or the other.

The topic title.
-----
Well, sounds like a real neat god, but my question was "Why is non-belief so terrible?".

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
You could've included the post # the question is in or posted it, or do you want me to just go pick one at random?

Yes, this God i believe is is to be feared. There are Bible verses that describe Him as terrible, wrathful, a Warrior God. He is, ultimately, holy. Un-holi-ness, or sin, will be destroyed by Him to the nth degree and then some. This Creator is just as capable of destroying and casting from His presence. A verse describes Him as spitting from His mouth those who are dismissive of Him....lukewarm.....not caring one way or the other.

The topic title.
-----
Well, sounds like a real neat god, but my question was "Why is non-belief so terrible?".

He's not neat, or cute, or a warm fuzzy. He is however aware of what His wrath can do, and has provided a way to avoid it.

The topic title? Didn't i respond to that?

You appear to be riding a merry-go-round at this point.

Enjoy the ride.

 

[Borel]

He's not neat, or cute, or a warm fuzzy. He is however aware of what His wrath can do, and has provided a way to avoid it.

The topic title? Didn't i respond to that?

You appear to be riding a merry-go-round at this point.

Enjoy the ride.

Yes, he provided. Belief and acceptance of Jesus's payment. Why belief? Surely an omnipotent deity could figure out a way where most people in the world wouldn't be eternally tortured? Or does he have a need to eternally torture people?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
He's not neat, or cute, or a warm fuzzy. He is however aware of what His wrath can do, and has provided a way to avoid it.

The topic title? Didn't i respond to that?

You appear to be riding a merry-go-round at this point.

Enjoy the ride.

Yes, he provided. Belief and acceptance of Jesus's payment. Why belief? Surely an omnipotent deity could figure out a way where most people in the world wouldn't be eternally tortured? Or does he have a need to eternally torture people?

God: This is the way that will provide you safety. Walk therein in it.

Man: But i don't wanna go that way.

God: As you wish.


God does not baby us. We face the consequences of our decisions.

You have been duly warned.

 

[Borel]

God: This is the way that will provide you safety. Walk therein in it.

Man: But i don't wanna go that way.

God: As you wish.

God does not baby us. We face the consequences of our decisions.

You have been duly warned.

More like:

Man 1: God says that this is the way that will provide you safety.
Man 2: Don't listen to him, this is the way.
Man 3: No, this is the way.
Man 4: Don't you understand? This is the way!

See the problem?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
God: This is the way that will provide you safety. Walk therein in it.

Man: But i don't wanna go that way.

God: As you wish.

God does not baby us. We face the consequences of our decisions.

You have been duly warned.

More like:

Man 1: God says that this is the way that will provide you safety.
Man 2: Don't listen to him, this is the way.
Man 3: No, this is the way.
Man 4: Don't you understand? This is the way!

See the problem?

I spoke of God. You speak of man.

Enjoying that merry-go-round ride?

 

[Borel]

I spoke of God. You speak of man.

Enjoying that merry-go-round ride?

God has never spoken to me. Only men who claimed to speak for a god.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
I spoke of God. You speak of man.

Enjoying that merry-go-round ride?

God has never spoken to me. Only men who claimed to speak for a god.

you're looking in the wrong direction.