Why I can't recommend Pentecostal Holiness

[rockytopva]

I remember the old Pentecostal Holiness church...

1. Salvation - As easy as asking the Lord Jesus into ones heart
2. Sanctification - When the Lord Jesus was born into the heart. If the experience was not there we would tell you to come back tomorrow night, and smile a little as we said it.
3. Holy Spirit - If a message in tongues was given out they would wait for an interpretation. If none was given someone was considered disobedient. None of this, however, had anything to do with salvation.
4. Divine Healing - Would take time to anoint people with oil and pray prayers of faith.
5. Altar service - People would take time to pray at the altar after the sermon.
6. Revival - It was a conference rule that we had at least so many revivals in a year, and they would report to conference the results. Our pastor would take time to invite wonderful evangelists and we would have wonderful times in revival.
7. Doctrine - I have no problems with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine and the results in our church was many saintly gentleman and ladies, both in spirit and in appearance.

I have no problem with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine and the the picture below is our church pictured around 50 years ago was a wonderful place and I am still a member there. But... The Spirit simply is not there anymore. In which case, even though I like the doctrine, I cannot recommend the church because it is no longer a place to grow in the Christian faith.

Our church remained a wonderful place until just a few years ago when our pastor retired. I remain worried that we live in a time in which the doctrine may be correct... But the Spirit simply is not there. Here is a video of just a few years ago when our old pastor held wonderful service....

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I remember the old Pentecostal Holiness church...

1. Salvation - As easy as asking the Lord Jesus into ones heart
2. Sanctification - When the Lord Jesus was born into the heart. If the experience was not there we would tell you to come back tomorrow night, and smile a little as we said it.
3. Holy Spirit - If a message in tongues was given out they would wait for an interpretation. If none was given someone was considered disobedient. None of this, however, had anything to do with salvation.
4. Divine Healing - Would take time to anoint people with oil and pray prayers of faith.
5. Altar service - People would take time to pray at the altar after the sermon.
6. Revival - It was a conference rule that we had at least so many revivals in a year, and they would report to conference the results. Our pastor would take time to invite wonderful evangelists and we would have wonderful times in revival.
7. Doctrine - I have no problems with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine and the results in our church was many saintly gentleman and ladies, both in spirit and in appearance.

I have no problem with Pentecostal Holiness doctrine and the the picture below is our church pictured around 50 years ago was a wonderful place and I am still a member there. But... The Spirit simply is not there anymore. In which case, even though I like the doctrine, I cannot recommend the church because it is no longer a place to grow in the Christian faith.

Our church remained a wonderful place until just a few years ago when our pastor retired. I remain worried that we live in a time in which the doctrine may be correct... But the Spirit simply is not there. Here is a video of just a few years ago when our old pastor held wonderful service....

The Holy Spirit lives in individual people not in a building, denomination or even in a large group of congregants. So to say the Holy Spirit is just not there anymore is a misnomer. You are there and you have the Spirit right? Gather the "like minded" and rebuild. Blessings.

 

[rockytopva]

The Holy Spirit lives in individual people not in a building, denomination or even in a large group of congregants. So to say the Holy Spirit is just not there anymore is a misnomer. You are there and you have the Spirit right? Gather the "like minded" and rebuild. Blessings.

Our new pastor insists in having outside church services during these covid times. I wonder though, if he ever thinks of going indoors again, if we would have anyone to lead the music ministry. I have been going to a different church as I do not like the idea of sitting in my car and listening to the order of service via radio.

 

[rocknanchor]

The Holy Spirit lives in individual people not in a building, denomination or even in a large group of congregants. So to say the Holy Spirit is just not there anymore is a misnomer. You are there and you have the Spirit right? Gather the "like minded" and rebuild. Blessings.

While that is true, isn't it reasonable a counter symptom may have developed capable of quenching to some degree?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

While that is true, isn't it reasonable a counter symptom may have developed capable of quenching to some degree?

Individuals quench the work of His Holy Spirit. We are called to discern all things. As one "quenches" the other discerns and helps lead into repentance. This is all part of the gifts shared among Christian's in the Body. Blessings.

 

[sandman]

Sometimes allegory’s are a great way to enlighten a situation…


When you have a brand new car you may have some hick-ups some recalls that need attention but for the most part you are cursing down the highway on all 8 cylinders. If you maintain that vehicle and address any issues properly, that baby is going to last you a while….As the car begins to age problems will arise, and how those are dealt with are important. It may be a tapping noise from the valves …but hey, the car still runs…. the engine light comes on …but hey, the car is still running, ….sometimes it’s a feeling like the brakes are a bit spongy, or maybe it’s a sweet smell emanating from the engine compartment …but hey, the car is still running…All these things are indicators…warnings!!! that something is off…but they are ignored, swept under the rug or dealt with insufficiently rather than getting to the root of the problem…

When you fail to maintain a vehicle, it will eventually fail. When you fail to maintain a congregation…it will fail also…from the inside out.

It starts with the warning lights… the smells the sounds….and soon the little fires will manifest themselves within a congregation… that is the devils M.O.

If the little fires are not dealt with properly they begin to grow spreading throughout …. It comes under many guises and starts small … like contention, backbiting, division, sexual misconduct, pride, financial, hate, jealousy and soon they begin to grow…. devouring from the inside out. And most people are unaware of their own participation in this because where once love flourished …it is soon replaced by self-righteousness.

This takes place over time…it’s subtle and deceiving and what once was a flourishing congregation is now just a lifeless program. And try as the minister might to revive this back to its original state, it’s like beating a dead horse.

When a vehicle is in that kind of condition it has to be torn down …..and rebuilt from the ground up.

The holy spirit didn’t leave the church…. spirit is within …..but most of people are so consumed with self-righteousness or have become content with the lifelessness…it has just become a program to them.

There are many who are just passengers in the congregation …unaware of what is going on…. they see the effects, but are unaware of the cause… or what to do.

Can it be rebuilt …yes.... but it takes some major work and unfortunately it starts with leadership. I am not saying the minister is bad, maybe they are, maybe they are not, but they need to be replaced with someone who can jump start the congregation…

 

[rockytopva]

I was brought up GARBC Baptist and firmly believed all that Pentecostal stuff was of the devil. Until I came down to Virginia and stayed the summer with my grandmother. Pictured below is farmer I would work for in the hay field that year... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me.

One day, after a beautiful autumnal week of beautiful Virginia fall and revival I lay on my bed with open door, listening to the Katydids sing their praises to God, reading Run Baby Run, with fireflies lighting up the mountain as they would fly, and heard the Spirit ask... "Put the book down" and then continue, "Where is all that hatred, strife, and bad feeling?" In which examining my eternal man there was nothing there but sheer beauty. I thought to myself... Oh my! I got exactly what those folks got!

And in the words of George Clark Rankin, "It was the third Sunday in September, 1866 (in my case much later), and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." - The Life of George Clark Rankin

 

[rockytopva]

So... After experiencing all those wonderful things Pentecostal Holiness why am I not promoting it? The reason being is that I have learned that both evil and good spiritually can befall us under the same church doctrine. And generations later, there are different things that are experienced with different generations. It is important that we stand out as saintlike ladies and gentleman to those of us who profess to be Spirit filled Christians. Which in my denomination is not always the case. Even to the extent that members can leave the sanctified environment and do things actually illegal and end up behind bars.

 

[rocknanchor]

So... After experiencing all those wonderful things Pentecostal Holiness why am I not promoting it? The reason being is that I have learned that both evil and good spiritually can befall us under the same church doctrine. And generations later, there are different things that are experienced with different generations. It is important that we stand out as saintlike ladies and gentleman to those of us who profess to be Spirit filled Christians. Which in my denomination is not always the case. Even to the extent that members can leave the sanctified environment and do things actually illegal and end up behind bars.

While we do stumble, seems the task at hand is to nip both the report and the act, but moreso the report if for instance, 'going to the brother' for the deliberate offense has proven successful. I suppose I'm suggesting that old familiar "root of bitterness springing up" nipping.

 

[rockytopva]

In the 1800’s this was the Methodist revival. The churches that have came in existence afterwards are these…

1. Independent Holiness
2. Pentecostal Holiness
3. Congregational Holiness
4. Assemblies of God
5. Church of God
6. Worshipping Church

A whole lot has changed with the coming of new generations. Though not all of it bad I miss the old generations and would love to go back and sit with them in service one more time!

 

[rockytopva]

To describe the missed "Good Spirit" I refer to the George Clark Rankin story I posted in the Methodist forum. And to quote the wonderful Spirit acquired here (in my case Pentecostal Holiness)...

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

The Life of George Clark Rankin

 

[rocknanchor]

Of course, God can bless in the same reflection of each of our choicest reminiscence. Even as ‘sandman’ suggested, rebuild formality or inherent protocols. But that is not the scope of delivery of His handiwork. He has a knack for,

“, ,making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland.” (Isaiah 43:19)​

Some of us may just be in need of character rebuilding,

“But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings, ,Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise.” (Hebrews 10:32,35,36)​

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Hope its going well for you these days 'rockytopva'