Why chosen?

[Normski]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Normski. What makes you think that personA goes to hell? Hell is reserved for Satan and his followers, al lwho do not know the meaning of LOVE, all who reject love, all who want nothing to do with God, who is all Love. Where there is no love, no compassion, no kindness, only selfishness remains. If person A does not go to God, it can only mean that he does not know God, neither wants to know God. It gives a good feeling to be helpful and polite, people will like a person like that. but I cannot understand why a helpful person does not want God. Is it perhaps that they want all the glory, want people`s adoration/appreciation for themselves only? To love God, to acknowledge His Love for us, and to thank God, will from its very nature lead to good works, to share with others what God gives us. Love is the Key back to God, without selfless love, " Agape," what is there, Normski? We choose God, we choose His Love and Forgiveness, and it is up to everybody to love God and love all others. I say this humbly and with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[Catherineanne]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

It doesn't. God is just, and if this looks unjust to us, then it will look even more unjust to him.

You might like to consider Matthew 25, where Our Lord talks about this very issue. And what he says is not the same as the church teaches, in many cases, sad to say.

 

[tapero]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

Hi! Welcome to CF!

There is an understanding by some Christians that certain people are chosen, while others are not.

Such is not truth. All who come to Christ are in fact chosen, but the one who does not come to Christ, was also chosen; but did not believe or commit their lives to Jesus.

On that topic, it's very difficult because that sounds like one is aware they are chosen etc. The Holy Spirit calls every one of us and for some unexplainable to me reason; some people hear or believe or come to Jesus while others do not. They may later. They may not.

The unexplainable I'm speaking of regards for instance that as I look back when I came to Jesus, I didn't see it as such; never even knew about such till read the bible. So, I'm saying is not something we're aware of for the most part if at all - being chosen - until looking back in hindsight.

But God desires all to know Him, and while is verses say many are called few are chosen; which is where when taken out of context is why some Christians will think, believe, that one who doesn't believe wasn't chosen.

It's taking scripture out of context and is error. Often times one needs whole context of new testament, or new and old for context/meaning as to scripture.

Taking a verse alone or even with several others; can still leave out the whole context on a matter causing error and much abounds. We all have error.

All are called to Christ.

The person who does good works, and many many people do, non Christians as well as Christians, but the person who does good things does not merit salvation. I didn't read the responses but assume that's been explained.

Jesus desires our lives to be committed to Him. It is good to do good things, but the relationship with God is what is broken, and is what in part Jesus died for, dying for our sins, and the gift of salvation by faith/trust in Christ. Our coming to Christ, unites us with Jesus, and our sins forgiven and much more occurs 'spiritually' when one comes to Jesus.

So what a person does as a non Christian has no merit as to their salvation. It is faith/trust/committed life in Jesus that brings one into Jesus; hence salvation.

And that commitment is not totally understood when one comes to Jesus and is a lifetime process as we grow in Jesus.

But when we come to Christ, most who do, know they have; can point to a change which occurred (some may not be able to), but we are born again, new creations; much of which we do not understand until we then start reading the bible and we see what has occurred.

Such is how it happened with me; and on the other hand, some people have done lots of research etc, and know more things, but in my case, knew little to nil about when I came to Jesus, but found out later what had occurred when I came to Christ.

The person who comes to Christ on their deathbed after doing horrible things all their lives; well; is really no different than when I came to Christ at 33, after doing horrible things all my life.

Is a story in the bible about workers getting the same wage as the one who started early in the morning or if came at the last minute of the work day and some were grumbling about it.

I am not positive this passage is speaking on this matter; but that passage is if the master (employer) desires to pay someone who started at 8 am and the one who started working at 6pm the same wage, what is that to you as is the master's business.

In the passage the complaining worker(s) was/were told, didn't you agree to accept the wage when you were hired?

And yes they did.

If I recall correctly is about how the story goes, of course actual hours are not mentioned; but this passage has always said to me; who am I to be troubled over what occurs in another person's life.

Wasn't I pleased when came to Jesus with all I received? Yes. And so see, this to me is what that passage speaks of. Kind of, not to worry about others, though of course is understandable why one would and is always okay to question everything.

So in doing good, right etc, does not merit or bring salvation to anyone. We are told this plainly in the NT. It is not by works you are saved but by faith and that by grace.

Also we know that non Christians can be a better person, (as pertains to doing good, right, etc) than Christians.

As Christians we come to Jesus, our walk starts there. Some people change lots, some little, etc.

Our committment to Jesus is like being married.

We vow or commit our lives to Jesus. A man vows to love His wife, take care of her, and visa versa.

But the vow alone does not make the marriage; though that is where the commitment to each other begins in marriage.

The now husband/wife do not stop there. Now they work throughout their marriage; to fulfill their vows to each other; and grow in love, etc.

It is something we are always working on. One can't just get married, say I'm committed, and do nothing more; and expect a healthy, vibrant, loving marriage.

Same with Christianity. We come to Christ, we commit our lives; and we work on that by doing as Jesus gives us to do, (and other things we learn) and all such is possible by us now being in Jesus, and as I said; some will grow faster; some slower, some may see little change; depending on how they are walking with Christ.

Sorry for long answer,
blessings,
tapero

 

[Jon0388g]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

1) What do you mean 'eternity in hell'?


2) A crucial point you are missing: "All have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God." In the eyes of a sinless God, both Person A and Person B are sinners. Yes, one may be a greater sinner than the other, but both are condemned by the Ten Commandments. Only by accepting the life of Christ in place of our own can we enter heaven. The Bible is clear that our own good works are as filthy rags and cannot purchase salvation.



In the above scenario, it is Person B that recognises the enormity of sin and his need of a Saviour. Only an all merciful God would not permit Person A into heaven. It would be eternal torment.






Jon

 

[Angel4Truth]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

Person A's "virtuous life' is that in the eyes of men not God. We have all sinned both person A and person B albeit they both have different sins.

Person B (provided their repentance is sincere and yes God would know the difference) recognized their need for salvation while person A thought their own good works would save them and failed to recognize Gods way and thought their own way was better.

The sin committed by adam and eve in the garden was disobedience to God. Person A is still in disobedience to God by refusing to meet Gods requirements for them.

No one is good before God. We are all sinners equally even if we commit ony one. We are not udged by our righteousness but by recieving the grace of God alone having been cleansed of sin.

Mans judgment of right and wrong doesnt match Gods.

 

[Holy Roller]

I know Atheists have a general aversion to reading the Word of God, but if you want an answer to your question, it would be profitable for you to read this scripture in the Book of Ezekiel (please bear in mind I tried this on the richard dawkins forum and got banned for it. Meanwhile, the ppl there keep on posting their pornography and keep on using profanity):

Ezekiel, tell Isrel the following: "This is what you are saying: Our sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of them. How then can we live?" Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'
Therefore, Ezekiel, say to your countrymen: 'The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.' If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. 14 And if I say to the wicked man, 'You will surely die,' but he then turns away from his sin and does what is just and right--if he gives back what he took in pledge for a loan, returns what he has stolen, follows the decrees that give life, and does no evil, he will surely live; he will not die. None of the sins he has committed will be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he will surely live.
Yet the Atheists say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' But it is the Atheist's way that is not just. If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. And if a wicked man turns away from his wickedness and does what is just and right, he will live by doing so. Yet, Atheists, you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' But I will judge each of you according to his own ways."

So there it is. I modified it a little. The sinner may have acted just in his own eyes, but in the end, he shows his true colors and sins. The just may be evil in his own eyes, but when the rubber met the road, he showed his true colors and asked for repentance, and demonstrated faith.

Any Atheist who is truly honest with himself is a rare breed. Atheists may scoff at the murderer who is now professing his Faith in Jesus, but then the Atheist shows his folly by voting for abortion, which is murder. Hypocrites! Vote pro-life first, then critisize the murderer who is now professing his Faith in Jesus!

 

[salida]

Its not a matter of how many good deeds I have done versus how many bad deeds in my life. Jesus said that our righteousness is as filthy rags and that no one is good. Yes, there are good natured people but this doesn't remove their sinful nature. If we break just one of any of the 10 Commandments we are guilty of all. But God made a way through Jesus - the gift of salvation so that can enter heaven.
Also, after salvation christians will be judged by what they did for eternity. Those christians who have done more than other christians will get rewarded accordingly - they will get more eternal rewards in heaven. A good book concerning this is called Driven by Eternity by John Bevere. It really helps one understand what it means by doing things for eternity not counting the bible.

Are you a good person? http://www.livingwaters.com/good/

It seems that athiests have their pride and their emotions in the way; I have two in my family I pray for as they sure weren't brought up this way - they are two cousins.

 

[AlbertanFarmGirl]

Jesus said "No one comes to the Father exept through Me. It is through Jesus Christ and belief that He died to redeem us from our sins and rose again that we are saved and may enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As others have already said, it is not through our deeds that we are saved.

 

[OldChurchGuy]

I am still a little confused regarding the issue of who gets chosen to enter heaven.

Scenario.

Person A : spends his entire life working for charitable causes, is a loyal family man. But never becomes a christian.

Person B : spends life in prison, for murder and rape. But on the final day of their life accepts Christ.

Now in this scenario, Person B, although having spent his life breaking the commandments, goes to heaven. Whilst Person A is rewarded for a virtuous life by spending eternity in hell. How can one decision so outweigh a lifetimes behaviour?

A very good question as you can see by the responses.

For me, the final decision is not mine but God's. Therefore, the scenario may turn out as you described or it may not. I'm not sure any of us can say with absolute certainty exactly what God will do or not do in a given situation.

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy