Western culture sustainibility

[Larniavc]

Their attacks and conquests are not called "crusades". They are called "jihad".

So, zero crusades, many jihads.

There were eight significant Crusades between 1096 and 1291 launched against the Arab world. How many Jihads of similar significance were there launched against Christendom?

 

[trophy33]

There were eight significant Crusades between 1096 and 1291 launched against the Arab world. How many Jihads of similar significance were there launched against Christendom?

I do not know, many. They got Spain for a while, they destroyed the Byzantian Empire and regarding the Central Europe, they got almost to Vienna (in Austria).

Regarding Christendom in the former Roman Empire outside of Europe, they got the whole middle East and northern Africa.

They have been pushed away from Europe, but the attempts of Europe to reclaim Jerusalem for a longer period of time have not been successful until Europe developed to be more advanced than the rest of the world during the colonial era.

 

[Estrid]

Their attacks and conquests are not called "crusades". They are called "jihad".

So, zero crusades, many jihads.

That makes all the difference.

 

[Larniavc]

I do not know, many.

Evidence please.

 

[trophy33]

Evidence please.

Evidence of what? Its commonly known history. Portugal, Spain, Austria, Byzantium, Romania, Greece, Bulgaria, France, Italy... Half of Europe had to fight with jihadists.

Look at the map I posted. The green means area conquered by Jihad. Red dots mean important battles.

 

[gaara4158]

In a general sense:

Is a forced over representation of various minorities and the public celebration and support of unhealthy and non working lifestyles an indication that such a society/country is becoming ineffective and decadent and will be conquered/replaced by another one?

We can also add single parent homes, sensitive men crying and concentrating on their feelings, the epidemic of obesity, minimal birth rate, gender quotas, whatever you see as a part of the decadence or of the ineffectivity.

Or, can it still maintain its political, economic, military and democratic strength for a long time (two, three or more generations)?

Discuss.

I find it interesting that you name a handful of cultural issues regarding which Western society has become more enlightened over the past few decades as catalysts of collapse rather than as tokens of progress. If our general sustainability is under threat, why not examine the organization of political and economic power in the West, the US especially, as more probable catalysts? For example, it’s a common practice for large corporations to send representatives to visit lawmakers and convince them through gifts and donations to pass laws that give their corporations a market advantage. It’s also common for lawmakers to use their privileged knowledge of upcoming business changes to inform their stock purchases — Nancy Pelosi’s portfolio outperformed the market in 2021! Corrupt forces in government and business have utterly destroyed the “free” part of the free market.

I just don’t understand how someone can see this and think it’s more likely that small changes to inclusivity in popular culture are more damaging to our sustainability than the ubiquitous corruption at every level of government and business in the West. I would love to hear more about what brought you to this position.

 

[trophy33]

I find it interesting that you name a handful of cultural issues regarding which Western society has become more enlightened over the past few decades as catalysts of collapse rather than as tokens of progress. If our general sustainability is under threat, why not examine the organization of political and economic power in the West, the US especially, as more probable catalysts? For example, it’s a common practice for large corporations to send representatives to visit lawmakers and convince them through gifts and donations to pass laws that give their corporations a market advantage. It’s also common for lawmakers to use their privileged knowledge of upcoming business changes to inform their stock purchases — Nancy Pelosi’s portfolio outperformed the market in 2021! Corrupt forces in government and business have utterly destroyed the “free” part of the free market.

I just don’t understand how someone can see this and think it’s more likely that small changes to inclusivity in popular culture are more damaging to our sustainability than the ubiquitous corruption at every level of government and business in the West. I would love to hear more about what brought you to this position.

If you destroy functional family and the work effectiveness, then its not a progress, but a decline.
And it will, of course, reflect in all other areas, sooner or later.

 

[Estrid]

If you destroy functional family and the work effectiveness, then its not a progress, but a decline.
And it will, of course, reflect in all other areas, sooner or later.

Big IF.
The complaint though is about the collapse
of dark ages mentality.

 

[Larniavc]

The poor will always exist.

That’s the spirit! Best close the hospitals, too. After all there there will sick people.

 

[trophy33]

Big IF.
The complaint though is about the collapse
of dark ages mentality.

Not so big, its quite obvious and logical. If your cells will not work properly, your body as a whole will not be healthy for long.

Not sure what you mean by dark ages mentality. Decadence was before the fall of many civilizations, since Babylon, Rome...

 

[gaara4158]

If you destroy functional family and the work effectiveness, then its not a progress, but a decline.
And it will, of course, reflect in all other areas, sooner or later.

Sure, but what are the forces that are really destroying functional family structures? Doesn’t the rising cost of living — which makes it financially impossible to get by on a single income — factor in to that? The more people have to work, the less time they have to spend with their families, right? As a rule, culture runs downstream of material conditions (such as cost of living), so if we’re really worried about sustainability, I just want to know why we’re focusing on small cultural shifts rather than the massive structural problems that are feeding into them.

 

[Estrid]

Sure, but what are the forces that are really destroying functional family structures? Doesn’t the rising cost of living — which makes it financially impossible to get by on a single income — factor in to that? The more people have to work, the less time they have to spend with their families, right? As a rule, culture runs downstream of material conditions (such as cost of living), so if we’re really worried about sustainability, I just want to know why we’re focusing on small cultural shifts rather than the massive structural problems that are feeding into them.

••••••••••SIN•••••••••

 

[gaara4158]

••••••••••SIN•••••••••

Can you tell me a little more about that? What are the sins you’re thinking of? What do you think causes sin, and what can we do to reduce its effect on society?

 

[Landon Caeli]

There were eight significant Crusades between 1096 and 1291 launched against the Arab world. How many Jihads of similar significance were there launched against Christendom?

Several hundred.

And the 8 Crusades were defensive military campaigns, while the hundreds of jihads were all offensive.

...The Jihads were meant to "break into" Europe, while the Crusades were ment to push the Jihadi's "back out".

 

[Estrid]

Several hundred.

And the 8 Crusades were defensive military campaigns, while the hundreds of jihads were all offensive.

...The Jihads were meant to "break into" Europe, while the Crusades were ment to push the Jihadi's "back out".

Zactly! The Russians' operation in Ukraine is
entirely defensive in nature.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Zactly! The Russians' operation in Ukraine is
entirely defensive in nature.

No it's not. Nobody was ever threatening Russia. Russia is acting as the aggressor, and that should be obvious.

 

[Estrid]

No it's not. Nobody was ever threatening Russia. Russia is acting as the aggressor, and that should be obvious.

Nobody ever threatened Russia.
What an astonishingly ignorant claim.

Regardless- Ukraine, crusade equally defensive in nature.

Exact same reason given, same amount of good and
sufficient "defense" consideration.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Nobody ever threatened Russia.
What an astonishingly ignorant claim.

Who threatened Russia?

 

[Estrid]

Who threatened Russia?

I'm not going to educate you if you
know zero Russian history.

 

[FireDragon76]

In a general sense:

Is a forced over representation of various minorities and the public celebration and support of unhealthy and non working lifestyles an indication that such a society/country is becoming ineffective and decadent and will be conquered/replaced by another one?

We can also add single parent homes, sensitive men crying and concentrating on their feelings, the epidemic of obesity, minimal birth rate, gender quotas, whatever you see as a part of the decadence or of the ineffectivity.

Or, can it still maintain its political, economic, military and democratic strength for a long time (two, three or more generations)?

Discuss.

I don't think hardly any of those things could be directly causal to civilizational decline.

Neoliberalism hasn't done any favors for the English speaking world, and has come at the expense of building of social capital and a sense of solidarity, which are important because humans are fundamentally social beings. I also don't think most religious institutions like Christian churches have been effective at responding to challenges of modernity, which hasn't helped, either, and has tended to encourage both individualism, neoliberalism, and nationalism/xenophobia to fill the vacuum.