Was America Christian Back Then?

Daniel Marsh

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I hear from the two older generations that America was a Christian nation back then. But the older I get, the less I believe this.

How was America a Christian nation back then? When did the change happen?

What's the evidence that it was not a Christian nation back then?
The writings of the early nation fathers is proof we were not a Christian Nation.
Also, the many Philosphies floating aroud.

 
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Daniel Marsh

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The Treaty of Tripoli announced clearly and succinctly to the world that “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” The document was initiated by George Washington, signed by John Adams, and ratified unanimously by the Senate, which included a majority of signers of the Constitution.

1892 supreme court declared we are a christgian nation.

 
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FireDragon76

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Actually, the 1950's and 60's were atypical because it was a period of high church membership, but most of American history, church membership and attendance was alot less enthusiastic, to say the least.

Few of the American Founders were especially religious. John Adams was probably the most religious among them, but he was a Unitarian. Franklin was raised a Congregationalist but not very religious, George Washington was idiosyncratic and private in his religious views as an Anglican, and Jefferson was somewhat hostile to Christianity.
 
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ralliann

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I think it is safe to say America was more of a church-going nation "back then," whenever that was. But, we have never been a Christian nation, per se, since our formation. Before the internet and so many other opportunities, the church was the social hub of the community where people connected. That is not so much the case presently.
I agree. There have been a lot of questions concerning our founding fathers and the writings of our constitution, declaration etc. Some say they were Christian, some say deist. It seemed both aspects could be attributed to them. I think it safe to assume the founding documents for this nation in securing freedom of religion, wrote as deists, be they Christian or not.

Deism, is very close to what the Church calls natural law, In judaism, it is Noachide law, which is righteousness/ justness between men, all men know, and are accountable to their fellow humans. It is righteousness outside of any particular religion (faith). As it God given, and as such man cannot take it away.
 
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Roderick Spode

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I've though this to be interesting.

An excerpt from a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson.

Who composed that Army of fine young Fellows that was then before my Eyes? There were among them, Roman Catholicks English Episcopalians, Scotch and American Presbyterians, Methodists, Moravians, Anababtists, German Lutherans, German Calvinists Universalists, Arians, Priestleyans, Socinians, Independents, Congregationalists, Horse Protestants and House Protestants, Deists and Atheists; and “Protestans qui ne croyent rien.” Very few however of Several of these Species. Never the less all Educated in the general Principles of Christianity: and the general Principles of English and American Liberty.



Founders Online: John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, 28 June 1813
 
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Ragdoll

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I hear from the two older generations that America was a Christian nation back then. But the older I get, the less I believe this.

How was America a Christian nation back then? When did the change happen?

What's the evidence that it was not a Christian nation back then?
Its a well known fact that our nations has a strong beginning in Christianity. Most of our founding fathers were Christian ministers. Most of the settlers were Christians. America was a Christian nation until secular humanism began to warp peoples minds and cause all kinds of vile immorality to take root in American culture. The changes in America mainly began in 1969 with the new liberal movement which was openly communist. Then there was the Cold War between the U.S. and the USSR. Russia had sent several spies to live here and to infiltrate our media, entertainment, education and political positions. Eventually all the atheist propaganda began to cause people to drift away from the truth of God in exchange for the worship or mere mortal men and fetish worship. But America has not always been like this. We were a Christian nation with the overwhelming majority of people being Christians. In fact, Ben Franklin is known as the most irreligious man of our founding fathers and he said there was not a single atheist living in America at the time he wrote his pamphlet to the Europeans who were interested in moving here to America. The Europeans read his pamphlet and let Europe immediately. This is because atheism had been destroying European culture even back then. The French revolution, for example, was an atheist movement which communism was come from. Sadly, those nice French people who helped us win our independence lost their independence. That is a sad fact that is hardly ever brought up in these discussions.
Here is what Franklin, the most irreligious man out of our founding fathers said about atheism:

275235811_674299433897449_8186050358689720067_n.jpg
 
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FireDragon76

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Its a well known fact that our nations has a strong beginning in Christianity. Most of our founding fathers were Christian ministers.

I've seen no evidence of this. The most religiously active among them was probably John Adams, who was a Unitarian, and he wasn't a minister.

Franklin had been raised a Congregationalist but he wasn't active in the church as an adult. Washington was idiosyncratic and often refused to receive Holy Communion, even though he did attend the Anglican services. Thomas Jefferson was actually hostile to orthodox Christian belief.


Most of the settlers were Christians. America was a Christian nation until secular humanism began to warp peoples minds and cause all kinds of vile immorality to take root in American culture.

Secular humanism probably doesn't account for the disaffiliation. The reasons are more complicated, and probably has to do with the shift in politics starting in the 60's. People starting losing trust in institutions in general in the wake of events such as the Vietnam War and Watergate.


 
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RileyG

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I remember reading that Washington was much more tolerant of religious diversity, even towards Catholics, who were "hated" back then. As far as his personal religious beliefs were, it seems to be all over the map. I'm not a scholar, so I do not know how to answer that question.
 
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RileyG

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I've seen no evidence of this. The most religiously active among them was probably John Adams, who was a Unitarian, and he wasn't a minister.

Franklin had been raised a Congregationalist but he wasn't active in the church as an adult. Washington was idiosyncratic and often refused to receive Holy Communion, even though he did attend the Anglican services. Thomas Jefferson was actually hostile to orthodox Christian belief.




Secular humanism probably doesn't account for the disaffiliation. The reasons are more complicated, and probably has to do with the shift in politics starting in the 60's. People starting losing trust in institutions in general in the wake of events such as the Vietnam War and Watergate.
I remember Christopher Hitchens said George Washington refused to receive Holy Communion, but it was "normal" for many Anglicans back then? I actually don't know the answer to that question.
 
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FireDragon76

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I remember Christopher Hitchens said George Washington refused to receive Holy Communion, but it was "normal" for many Anglicans back then? I actually don't know the answer to that question.

Hitchens account appears to be historically accurate, based on what I've read.

The 39 Articles do reserve the right to excommunicate "notorious sinners". Some more Calvinistic Anglicans might have engaged in a practice of rigorous examination of conscience, including potentially excommunicating oneself, based on what I've read about Puritan piety. Holy Communion in many southern Episcopalian/Anglican churches was infrequent, similar to the Congregationalist or Presbyterian practice, and varied between once or twice a month to a few times a year.

I suspect Washington's religious affinity was closest to what we would think of as "Liberal". What is sometimes haphazardly called "Deism" tends to be adjacent to that (many liberals later had affinity with Unitarianism, which is how it spread in England and the colonies). This Anglican party emphasized public morality and civic virtue as an expression of the Christian faith, over and above notions of religious experience or personal conversion. I also suspect that was Franklin's religious orientation as well.
 
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Ragdoll

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I've seen no evidence of this. The most religiously active among them was probably John Adams, who was a Unitarian, and he wasn't a minister.

Franklin had been raised a Congregationalist but he wasn't active in the church as an adult. Washington was idiosyncratic and often refused to receive Holy Communion, even though he did attend the Anglican services. Thomas Jefferson was actually hostile to orthodox Christian belief.




Secular humanism probably doesn't account for the disaffiliation. The reasons are more complicated, and probably has to do with the shift in politics starting in the 60's. People starting losing trust in institutions in general in the wake of events such as the Vietnam War and Watergate.
Fortunately Washington left his prayer book which tells us a different story. Washington was a Christian. Franklin was a deist as well as Jefferson. The rest of the founders were Christians. You don't know this because you studied a different history other than the trusted sources. When you get into pseudo-history and conspiracy theory everything around you becomes evil and you see no good in your founding. That is what the communist parties of the world want you to believe.

Yes, just the 60s was the turning point. It had nothing to do with people losing trust in institutions. It goes during the Cold War and Russian spies were living in America and corrupting the youth. It was an easy task for them since all they had to do is teach more evolution theory and appeal to base emotions in people to dull them down and get them to chase after sexual desires over faithfulness to Christ. Our American history is written and no amount of communist propaganda is gonna change my mind. The 60s hippie movement and the deviant sexual revolution they started was all part of the Soviet doctrine against the free people of the United States.

I could tell you who killed JFK and RFK Sr., but I think I'd be breaking the rules and violating my recent warning if I did. I can prove it. And when Trump says the nation is not ready for that yet he ain't kidding. But there is a clear way of proving who killed JFK and RFK. There is a motive and there is a reward. We know who received the reward for the assassinations of both Kennedy brothers. No assassination happens without benefits to the ones who made the contract. So I'll leave it at that. I pretty much told you who did it. Just think about where we are today in our current dilemma as a nation and there you will find the beneficiaries of the Kennedy brothers assassinations. There you will see how it was the commiunist driven hippie movement began. And from there the killers began to gain the power they desired over America. And who was JFK's enemy? The communists of Cuba and Russia. But it was communists on the inside working for Cuba and Russia who honored the contract. So today we have an entire new establishment based on the deaths of two brothers who's deaths helped lay the foundation of the horror that is modern day America.

But you wanna hear something. If Americans would unite against all this there is nothing the communists could do. They would have to flee this nation for their lives. We can win back our country as we will. We Americans will never give up the fight.
 
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FireDragon76

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Fortunately Washington left his prayer book which tells us a different story. Washington was a Christian. Franklin was a deist as well as Jefferson. The rest of the founders were Christians. You don't know this because you studied a different history other than the trusted sources. When you get into pseudo-history and conspiracy theory everything around you becomes evil and you see no good in your founding. That is what the communist parties of the world want you to believe.

Yes, just the 60s was the turning point. It had nothing to do with people losing trust in institutions. It goes during the Cold War and Russian spies were living in America and corrupting the youth. It was an easy task for them since all they had to do is teach more evolution theory and appeal to base emotions in people to dull them down and get them to chase after sexual desires over faithfulness to Christ. Our American history is written and no amount of communist propaganda is gonna change my mind. The 60s hippie movement and the deviant sexual revolution they started was all part of the Soviet doctrine against the free people of the United States.

I could tell you who killed JFK and RFK Sr., but I think I'd be breaking the rules and violating my recent warning if I did. I can prove it. And when Trump says the nation is not ready for that yet he ain't kidding. But there is a clear way of proving who killed JFK and RFK. There is a motive and there is a reward. We know who received the reward for the assassinations of both Kennedy brothers. No assassination happens without benefits to the ones who made the contract. So I'll leave it at that. I pretty much told you who did it. Just think about where we are today in our current dilemma as a nation and there you will find the beneficiaries of the Kennedy brothers assassinations. There you will see how it was the commiunist driven hippie movement began. And from there the killers began to gain the power they desired over America. And who was JFK's enemy? The communists of Cuba and Russia. But it was communists on the inside working for Cuba and Russia who honored the contract. So today we have an entire new establishment based on the deaths of two brothers who's deaths helped lay the foundation of the horror that is modern day America.

But you wanna hear something. If Americans would unite against all this there is nothing the communists could do. They would have to flee this nation for their lives. We can win back our country as we will. We Americans will never give up the fight.

Marxist-Leninism is not a serious force in the world anymore, so I think you need to find another explanation.

You need to explain how the hippies were driven by Communism. From what I have read, the hippy movement had diverse influences and reflected broader changes in American culture.
 
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Ragdoll

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Marxist-Leninism is not a serious force in the world anymore, so I think you need to find another explanation.

You need to explain how the hippies were driven by Communism. From what I have read, the hippy movement had diverse influences and reflected broader changes in American culture.
I guess you need to be old enough and educated enough in hippie culture to understand any of this.
 
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Tuur

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Its a well known fact that our nations has a strong beginning in Christianity.
Which I think is why we here so much argument that the US isn't a Christian nation rather than whether most in the US were Christians. The US has never had an official national religion and incorporated in its constitution mechanisms from preventing a "Church of the United States" like there was a "Church of England." That didn't prevent the custom of holding Christian services in federal government buildings, or having the US Marine Corp provide the music. They eventually dropped the Marine Corp Band, because some thought the type of music didn't set the right atmosphere. Jefferson attended, attended the Sunday after penning his letter to Danbury Baptists, so he didn't see it as a constitutional violation.

Such were the times that even the deist Franklin, a reputed member of the Hellfire Club, argued in favor of religious instruction in schools. Try doing that today. If Congress revived the practice of Sunday Christian services in federal buildings, something that was considered quite normal in the time of Jefferson, there would be howls of outrage. Washington may have wrote that the US was not a Christian nation, but the US was a nation of mostly Christians.
 
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Pioneer3mm

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The US has never had an official national religion and incorporated in its constitution mechanisms from preventing a "Church of the United States" like there was a "Church of England."
Good point..
---
It seems..'Separation of Church and State' is still an ongoing/continuing issue.
 
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DragonFox91

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@peaceful-forest

I think another thing is some parts of the country were or are more Christian than others. What happens is the more religious leave the areas that are less religious. The area I live in is considered a Bible Belt for example & has been considered a Bible Belt for a long time now.
Tho it is not as religous as it used to be for sure as people from less religious regions continue to move in. The modern reality is I think it's more of a historical reputation & outsiders wanting to look down on us, ("ha ha they're all backwards Bible Thumpers there" even tho they have never been here) Modern reality is the area has changed, tho we more religious do certainly still make up a chunk of the area.
Wikipedia says in addition to the South, large chunks of the Midwest, & Colorado are, or were, Bible Belts.
So basically, 'was America more Christian', certainly in some parts of the country yes. Other regions, maybe they were more pop Christians, Christians In Name Only, tho they existed in Bible Belt areas for sure too. Tho a spiritual decline including a twisting of the Gospel in "churches" (Jesus just a man, it's mostly just allegory, miracles didn't really happen, God is who you want him to be but the Bible is a guide, he's only love, etc. ) has been going on since WWII.

Other areas like San Francisco & Los Angeles I think were always less Christian compared to these other areas.
 
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Josheb

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I hear from the two older generations that America was a Christian nation back then. But the older I get, the less I believe this.

How was America a Christian nation back then? When did the change happen?

What's the evidence that it was not a Christian nation back then?
Aside from the Bible, one of the best books you (or any other Christian) will ever read in answer to this op's question is Francis Schaeffer's trilogy. Every Christian should read it (along with J. I. Packer's "Knowing God." Schaeffer surveys philosophy, history, art, and music to chronicle the evolution from the early days of western civilization to postmodernity. There was a time when the Judeo-Christian worldview was so predominant it was the standard and filter for everyone's thinking - even the non-Christian. Simply put, America was Christian simply because there was no other competing worldview..... and people acted accordingly.

So, yes, America was a much more Christian nation "back then," no matter when "back then" was.

It is common for those on the liberal end of theology and politics to claim the founding fathers were not all Christians and did not establish the nation based on Christianity but that is demonstrably false. Nearly all of the members of the Continental Congress were either clergy or held positions as elders or vestry members in their congregations. Even purported atheists thought in terms of the Judeo-Christian worldview and their understanding of the Bible. Anyone who actually opens up Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" or "Rights of Man" is near-instantly confronted with Paine writing about God and quoting from the Bible. There are scores of references to God and scripture in his writing. If he was an atheist then he was not a very good one and he nevertheless held a Judeo-Christian worldview originating straight from the Bible. Lstly, for now, every single colony but one (Rhode Island) had laws prohibiting atheists from holding political office (sadly, most of them required a sectarian affiliation).

Think about what would happen today if the states prohibited atheists from holding office.

Yes, America is less Christian.

BUT the answer to that question also depends on what you mean by Less Christian," because Americans and Christianity has always had a problem with hypocrisy (and legalism). The way a person thinks and the way a person acts are different. To say, "It's not supposed to be that way," is to assert a standard that comes directly out of the Bible.
When did the change happen?
I suspect many people are not going to like my answer, so I encourage you to check it out for yourself. I'm going to blow through some history here so if you want more detail just ask.

Remember America came into its own at the end of the 18th century. The French Revolution followed the American Revolution but the two were fought for entirely different values. Whereas America was originally populated by religious people seeking religious liberty and less governmental control, the French Revolution was fought to discard religion and the monarchy. The fight for "Reason," as the French purportedly lauded was more despotically violent and prejudiced than anything any monarchy had ever manifested. The French Revolution was also classist at its core because of abuses by the monarchy. America has never had a monarchy. Soon after the French Revolution, Napolean come into power and He at his coronation he infamously took the crown out of the Pope's hand and crowned himself. Symbolically that was transitional because it meant man could crown himself. It is one of the most humanist acts in human history. Then came the Napoleonic wars and in the middle of the 1800s the American Civil War. At the time those events were considered end times events. Really. A large swath of Christendom perceived these events as apocalyptic. I'll write more on that below but for now I'll stick with secular events. In the mid-to late 1800s Charles Darwin wrote his books on evolution. Hegel and Schopenhauer were the prominent philosophers but as the 1800s progressed two philosophers, Soren Kierkegaard and then Frederich Nietzsche, became popular and they provide a huge departure in worldviews. Kierkegaard was a Christian and he developed Existentialism whereas Nietzsche was humanist and developed nihilism. Politically, Karl Marx was replacing John Locke and Immanuel Kant, and writing his books and by the end of the century had written his first books on psychosexual theory.

ALL of these events and persons had profound effect on the 20th century, especially in Christian thought, doctrine, and practice.

In the Christian arena huge changes began with Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, John Wesley and the Moravians in the late 1700s. Christianity was moving away from creedalism (learning Christianity through the creeds) to experientialism. Three conditions facilitated this: 1) the printing press made it possible for many ordinary people to own Bibles so they could read it on their own and not depend on clergy, 2) America was unsettled and the institutional Church was not established as pervasively as it was in Europe, and the practice of tent revivals lent itself to experientialism. Wesley had been an Anglican minister, but he wasn't a Christian when he embarked on his first mission trip. He was persuaded to Christ through the preaching of Moravians he met on the boat trip home. Eventually converting to Christ he returned to lead a successful revival in the southern part of America while Whitefield was doing his thing in New England. Wesley did not intend to start up a whole new denomination but his "methodism" became common practice with other traveling preachers. You could know you were saved when you had a conversion experience. That alone was a huge changing point in Christian thought, doctrine, and practice. Experientialism began to replace creedalism. This became a problem because as America expanded west there was no oversight for the traveling preachers. That meant there was no uniformity, and no accountability.

The 1800s saw the beginning of what is now known as the "Restoration Movement." The basic beliefs of the restoration movement were 1) the Church is corrupt, 2) because the Church is corrupt the Church is in need of restoration, 3) our sect has the correct New Testament understanding so come join us because 3) the world is going to end any day now and Jesus is coming to judge everyone so get right with God right NOW. All these movements were apocalyptic and held the traditional orthodox, mainstream Church corrupt. During this time there was a HUGE explosion of new sects and denominations. It made the Reformation look like a trial run. Among these new sects were the Campbellites, the Millerites, the Church of Christ, the Brethren, the Darbyites (Extreme Brethren), the Seventh Day Adventists, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Latter Day Saints. Many of them were outright cults but many of the managed to stay with an acceptable range of orthodoxy even though there was vigorous debate from those on the creedal end of things. The 1800s also saw the increase in what we now call Liberal Theology. Central Eurean theologians began to question the literalness and historicity of the Bible. The questioned the factualness of the Bibe. This wasn't new. Thomas Jefferson had, a century earlier, cut out all the miracles from his Bible and published his version. Prior to that humanists like Erasmus departed from traditional views. By the end of the 1800s theologians like Frederich Schleiermacher and Albert Schweitzer were gaining popularity among the liberal minded. Schweitzer believed Jesus and the apostles were mistaken: they expected Jesus return during the first century and since that did not happen, they must have misunderstood God. Their views eventually gave rise to The Jesus Seminar.

By the turn of the century three conditions furthered these influences. One was the invention of the radio. Restorationists took to the airwaves. Liturgical, institutional congregations did not need to do so because they had a ready-made audience. The Azusa Street Revival caused another huge explosion in sectarian diversity, birthing the Pentecostal movement. Most importantly, though, John Darby's Premillennial Dispensationalism took hold. It was pushed forward by Cyrus Scofield's commentary Bible (it sold hundreds of thousands of copies), and the founding of the first seminary specifically devoted to Dispensationalism by Lewis Sperry Chafer. Originally called Evangelical Theological College, we know it today as Dallas Theological Seminary. Dispensationalism was literally invented by John Darby. It did not exist prior to the 1800s. Darby also invented his own hermeneutic. His hermeneutic did not exist before the 1800s. The reason this is important is because it was the primary force carrying restorationism into the 20th century. All of those restorationist sects predicted Jesus would return in the 1800s and that did not happen. I cannot communicate how huge this was. Thay all had to either change their doctrines or "recalculate" their predictions. Most, but not all, of them were also rapturist. They predicted the world was going to hell in a handbasket, the Church was corrupt so it would become increasingly impotent, God would come for the pure Church to rescue them from the soon pending apocalypse.

None of it ever happened.


So....


Many Americans watched as liberalism increased and the teachings of the evangelicals proved false. Church life became less intellectual and more sensationalistic. Conservative leaders in the more historical, orthodox, mainline denominations tried to confront all these influences but had only modest success. Dispensationalism is now very popular and many Christians incorrectly think Dispensationalism is the only view the Church has ever held. I forgot to mention one other point: Many, not all, of the restorationists were also isolationist. Darby, for example, taught Christians needed to separate entirely from the world. They should not hold political office or work in the government. This removal of the Church from leadership and the marketplace of ideas proved fatal. By the late 60s "free love," drugs, and questioning authority was a new norm. It reached its pinnacle (or one of them, at least) with Roe v Wade. That court decision shocked Conservative Christianity and prompted Schaeffer (and others) to examine how the Church got so lazy and uninvolved that this would happen.

In my lifetime Premillennial Dispensationalism has taken hold as the norm through mass media. I read Hal Lindsay's books in the 70s before I was a Christian. Chuck Smith, the founder of Calvary Chapel and many, many others were writing books teaching Christians to prepare for the rapture and Christ's return in 1988. Seriously. They specified a year. Later, others like Harold Camping and Edgar Whisenant, and many others continued preaching rapturism not a single prediction any Dispensationalist has made in the last 180 years has ever come true.

Americans inside and outside the Church hear this and wonder why it is Christianity is wrong and why no one in the Church does anything to stop these men (and women). It bears a bad witness.


my apologies for the length
 
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Bobber

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I hear from the two older generations that America was a Christian nation back then. But the older I get, the less I believe this.

How was America a Christian nation back then? When did the change happen?

What's the evidence that it was not a Christian nation back then?
There is no such thing as a Christians nation and it's counter productive to even suggest there is or ever has been one. To be a Christian nation would mean every single person would have to be saved.
 
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Bobber

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Defacto it was a Christian country inasmuch law and culture were informed by Christian principles. Dejure it was a non Christian country founded on Enlightenment principles.

Since the USA no longer embodies any Christian principle and we are told it would be wrong for it to do so, Christians ought regard the American Empire as the early Christians regarded Rome. Unworthy of devotion, unworthy of dying for.
Interesting post.
 
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There is no such thing as a Christians nation and it's counter productive to even suggest there is or ever has been one. To be a Christian nation would mean every single person would have to be saved.
Inasmuch as one can have a Christian Church filled with sinners and the unsaved why should not the same grace be extended to a community? Be it a village, a city or a nation?

A Christian country need not be perfect, but it's animating impulse must be the faith and not any other kind of ideology. If we give Christians the choice between political powerlessness as Christians or some ideology which does say it can rightly weild power, why would we be surprised most follow the latter? We don't believe even the legitimacy of our faith to inform civil society and law.
 
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