SETI Receives Message from ET: How would you react?

[Radrook]

I don't know -- I guess I'd have to look at them, and then (wrestling with vestiges of racial impiety) contemplate whether I think they qualify as being made in the Image of God, or not. I'm tempted to say that...heck...if they arrive, and they look like the Spaghetti Monster, ...and they want to eat me, I'm probably going to have more than just religious issues with them showing up on my doorstep, or housetop ...

Here is a curious article on how the Roman Catholic Pope views these things.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...baptise-martian-would-they-want-our-religions

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Here is a curious article on how the Roman Catholic Pope views these things.
https://www.theguardian.com/science...baptise-martian-would-they-want-our-religions

I don't know about this. While the Pope's generic statements in the article regarding 'martians' are gracious, the other statements made by the Vatican's chief astronomer, José Gabriel Funes, seem to me to be a little bit at odds with the basic theology of the Bible. He says that maybe E.T.'s theology would be "more advanced" than ours, and perhaps we'd find that we'd want to convert to it. In what way could E.T.'s theology be more "advanced" than ours, and why would we want to convert it? If their theology is some kind of cosmic extension that ties itself nicely into the Bible's theology without going all LDS about it all, maybe so. But if it ends up being some kind of completely alternative religion, one that precludes or excludes the identity and need for Christ, I'd say we have a problem on our hands--one not much different than Christians already have while living in a world with multiple religions. Same story, different planet.

Personally, I like the general approach J.J. Davis (2002) has in contemplating how our Christian theology could deal with the possibility of Extraterrestrials by adapting some insinuations of Colossians 1:15-20:

I believe that the Christology of Colossians is sufficiently vast in scope to provide a basis for the redemption of fallen beings anywhere in the universe, without the need for any additional incarnations or atonements. (p. 152)​

Maybe this is a similar angle to the one from which the Pope made his comments about ET's?

While this would solve some of the theological issues for Christians here on planet earth, another problem might arise if E.T. thinks he's morally ok and not in any need of any kind of Savior (which, by the way, doesn't sound so "alien.")

REFERENCE​

Davis, J. J. (2002). The Frontiers of Science & Faith: Examining Questions from the Big Bang to the End of the Universe. InterVarsity Press.




2PhiloVoid

 

[Radrook]

I don't know about this. While the Pope's generic statements in the article regarding 'martians' are gracious, the other statements made by the Vatican's chief astronomer, José Gabriel Funes, seem to me to be a little bit at odds with the basic theology of the Bible. He says that maybe E.T.'s theology would be "more advanced" than ours, and perhaps we'd find that we'd want to convert to it. In what way could E.T.'s theology be more "advanced" than ours, and why would we want to convert it? If their theology is some kind of cosmic extension that ties itself nicely into the Bible's theology without going all LDS about it all, maybe so. But if it ends up being some kind of completely alternative religion, one that precludes or excludes the identity and need for Christ, I'd say we have a problem on our hands--one not much different than Christians already have while living in a world with multiple religions. Same story, different planet.

Personally, I like the general approach J.J. Davis (2002) has in contemplating how our Christian theology could deal with the possibility of Extraterrestrials by adapting some insinuations of Colossians 1:15-20:

I believe that the Christology of Colossians is sufficiently vast in scope to provide a basis for the redemption of fallen beings anywhere in the universe, without the need for any additional incarnations or atonements. (p. 152)​

Maybe this is a similar angle to the one from which the Pope made his comments about ET's?

While this would solve some of the theological issues for Christians here on planet earth, another problem might arise if E.T. thinks he's morally ok and not in any need of any kind of Savior (which, by the way, doesn't sound so "alien.")

REFERENCE
Davis, J. J. (2002). The Frontiers of Science & Faith: Examining Questions from the Big Bang to the End of the Universe. InterVarsity Press.​

2PhiloVoid

The pope has said that he would baptise a Martian – but would they want our religions?

The Vatican has already covered the angles, it seems. In 2008, its chief astronomer, José Gabriel Funes, publicly accepted that there could be life on other planets.

"Why can't we speak of a 'brother extraterrestrial'?" he said.

"It would still be part of creation." Aliens might even be closer to God than us, Funes suggested, and humans could be the "lost sheep" of the universe. In other words, alien visitors might well have a more advanced religion than ours. Rather than baptising them, we might want to convert to their faith.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2014/may/14/pope-francis-baptise-martian-would-they-want-our-religions

Actually, one of my unpublished novels includes a race of aliens who unlike mankind never suffered a fall from grace. So I don't find the statement as strange as others who might not have delved seriously on such a possibility
might.

About offering baptism to aliens who haven't maintained the perfection which they were originally bless and have also fallen away, I really don't see how Jesus' sacrifice which was specifically designed for the descendants of Adam would pertain to them.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Actually, one of my unpublished novels includes a race of aliens who unlike mankind never suffered a fall from grace. So I don't find the statement as strange as others who might not have delved seriously on such a possibility
might.

About offering baptism to aliens who haven't maintained the perfection which they were originally bless and have also fallen away, I really don't see how Jesus' sacrifice which was specifically designed for the descendants of Adam would pertain to them.

What if the E.T.'s are in some kind of similar position to that of the Magi in the New Testament, that they somehow have been aware that a Savior would be born on our planet, earth? (Just a though experiment, of sorts, that came to me after reading again Arthur C. Clarke's science-fiction short story, The Star.)

 

[Radrook]

What if the E.T.'s are in some kind of similar position to that of the Magi in the New Testament, that they somehow have been aware that a Savior would be born on our planet, earth? (Just a though experiment, of sorts, that came to me after reading again Arthur C. Clarke's science-fiction short story, The Star.)

Well, that would presuppose that:

Aliens had the means and the desire to span the almost unimaginable distances between the stars just to reach us.

That they knew or were told of our exact location or came upon it by sheer astronomically-unlikely chance

Also, that they either were told about the coming birth of Christ by God himself or else could somehow see the future.

That they might have been used by God to assist.

Now, the only non-terrestrial creatures mentioned in the Bible as being employed in that helping capacity are angels and angels are described as immaterial spirits.

Hebrews 1:14 ►
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

Assisted Jesus:

Matthew 4:11
Then the devil left Him, and angels came and ministered to Him.

Also, unlike aliens, angels are described as being present when God created the Earth and as living in the spirit realm called heaven with God.

Job 38:4-7 (NET)

38:4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you possess understanding! 5 Who set its measurements – if you know – or who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its bases set, or who laid its cornerstone – 7 when the morning stars sang in chorus, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

No material-universe-bound creature emerging after the BB would meet those supernatural requirements.

BTW
Is that Arthur C. Clark story the one where space travelers discover that the star of Bethlehem was actually a supernova which obliterated all life on the planets which had orbited it?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, that would presuppose that:

Aliens had the means and the desire to span the almost unimaginable distances between the stars just to reach us.

That they knew or were told of our exact location or came upon it by sheer astronomically-unlikely chance

Also, that they either were told about the coming birth of Christ by God himself or else could somehow see the future.

That they might have been used by God to assist.

Now, the only non-terrestrial creatures mentioned in the Bible as being employed in that helping capacity are angels and angels are described as immaterial spirits.



Assisted Jesus:



Also, unlike aliens, angels are described as being present when God created the Earth and as living in the spirit realm called heaven with God.




No material-universe-bound creature emerging after the BB would meet those supernatural requirements.

BTW
Is that Arthur C. Clark story the one where space travelers discover that the star of Bethlehem was actually a supernova which obliterated all life on the planets which had orbited it?

Yes, that is the story. And now, with this little side-discussion we've had, surely you have some new ideas for yet another novel.

 

[Greg J.]

Some speculate that such a message regardless of its nature would turn religion on its head. That many Christians would be devastated by it because of its implications.
I personally would have absolutely no problems with it. Would like to hear your opinions.

Based on the long human history of labeling things as from aliens that were never proven to actually be (I believe we're at a 100% failure rate so far), such a message would be meaningless to me. I'm not sure I would even bother to read about the reactions to it and the proffered proof.

Presumably, you are wondering how the logical possibility can affect what we believe about God, and how it would impact what we believe about God if it happened. I also presume that the only reason this is a question (on a Christian web site) is because it appears that God, through the Bible, does not clearly rule out the possibility of aliens.

There is nothing that can happen in the physical universe that proves or disproves God's existence. This includes anything science finds or fails to find. To counter the idea he doesn't exist, one could always just suggest God is taking a vacation in another dimension, alternate universe, or alternate reality. More interestingly, of course, is can we find proof for or against the Christian God's existence. However, the conclusion is the same.

In fact, the truth is that God is very much with us, but reveals himself to people after they have faith, not before. It is mankind's fault that that is the situation.

I'm more worried that it'll be along the lines of "I'm here to tell you about our Lord..."

This would also mean nothing to me, although it would throw those in the world without faith into turmoil. The Bible is proven correct through experiences by those that have entrusted themselves to God before having proof. i.e., The Bible actually "works." But again, it can't appear that way to those who haven't first come to believe and trust God by faith. Salvation is by faith alone. No one can be saved if presented with proof (what would qualify?), because we would then experience the power of the presence of God while still tainted with sin, and we would personally discover what John 3:18 means.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18, 1984 NIV)

 

[Radrook]

Based on the long human history of labeling things as from aliens that were never proven to actually be (I believe we're at a 100% failure rate so far), such a message would be meaningless to me. I'm not sure I would even bother to read about the reactions to it and the proffered proof.

Presumably, you are wondering how the logical possibility can affect what we believe about God, and how it would impact what we believe about God if it happened. I also presume that the only reason this is a question (on a Christian web site) is because it appears that God, through the Bible, does not clearly rule out the possibility of aliens.

There is nothing that can happen in the physical universe that proves or disproves God's existence. This includes anything science finds or fails to find. To counter the idea he doesn't exist, one could always just suggest God is taking a vacation in another dimension, alternate universe, or alternate reality. More interestingly, of course, is can we find proof for or against the Christian God's existence. However, the conclusion is the same.

In fact, the truth is that God is very much with us, but reveals himself to people after they have faith, not before. It is mankind's fault that that is the situation.

This would also mean nothing to me, although it would throw those in the world without faith into turmoil. The Bible is proven correct through experiences by those that have entrusted themselves to God before having proof. i.e., The Bible actually "works." But again, it can't appear that way to those who haven't first come to believe and trust God by faith. Salvation is by faith alone. No one can be saved if presented with proof (what would qualify?), because we would then experience the power of the presence of God while still tainted with sin, and we would personally discover what John 3:18 means.

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (John 3:18, 1984 NIV)

This reminds me of a film I once watched in which God began proving to atheists that he was indeed around by announcing in all language via radio the miracles he would perform and then performing them. One atheist woman refused to buckle under the barrage of predictions and fulfillments until the last miracle which consisted in submerging the continent of Australia under two feet of seawater and raising it up again. That was the straw which finally broke her atheist camel back.
Ironically, her belief in the existence of a creator who was aware of every single thing she was thinking and feeling or doing caused her to have a nervous breakdown. Go figure.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This reminds me of a film I once watched in which God began proving to atheists that he was indeed around by announcing in all language via radio the miracles he would perform and then performing them. One atheist woman refused to buckle under the barrage of predictions and fulfillments until the last miracle which consisted in submerging the continent of Australia under two feet of seawater and raising it up again. That was the straw which finally broke her atheist camel back.
Ironically, her belief in the existence of a creator who was aware of every single thing she was thinking and feeling or doing caused her to have a nervous breakdown. Go figure.

Movies be crazy.

 

[Radrook]

Movies be crazy.

Some contain subtle truths which lie beneath the surface of the superficial and might go and do very often go completely unnoticed. The thing to keep in mind is that each short story, or novel, or film has themes and sub themes which the author is trying to convey to the audience. Then we should ask ourselves what was the author trying to tell us in the particular movie which seems to us as pointless.

To me this film pointed to the fact that some people refuse to believe in God because they find the idea of a God who knows about their inner thoughts and who judges hem accordingly unacceptable. They wish to live in a universe where they are morally accountable only to themselves.

Faced with the fact that she was indeed accountable to a higher authority, and being fanatically delicate woman the atheist protagonist had a nervous breakdown.

Of course the film portrayed her that way to get the point across as dramatically as possible and to force the viewer to consider just why some people are so fanatically opposed to accepting a creator as a reality.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Some contain subtle truths which lie beneath the surface of the superficial and might go and do very often go completely unnoticed. The thing to keep in mind is that each short story, or novel, or film has themes and sub themes which the author is trying to convey to the audience. Then we should ask ourselves what was the author trying to tell us in the particular movie which seems to us as pointless.

To me this film pointed to the fact that some people refuse to believe in God because they find the idea of a God who knows about their inner thoughts and who judges hem accordingly unacceptable. They wish to live in a universe where they are morally accountable only to themselves.

Faced with the fact that she was indeed accountable to a higher authority, and being fanatically delicate woman the atheist protagonist had a nervous breakdown.

Of course the film portrayed her that way to get the point across as dramatically as possible and to force the viewer to consider just why some people are so fanatically opposed to accepting a creator as a reality.

Of course...some are just entertainment.

 

[PapaZoom]

I'm going to have to see if that is indeed a TZ episode, and whether or not it's available on Netflix. It's sounds funny...

 

[Radrook]

Of course...some are just entertainment.

All can definitely can be viewed that way.
It is really up the individual person and how he chooses to perceive them .
In any given audience there are those who are totally bored, alongside with others who are intellectually fascinated, alongside others who might be totally bored nd walk out or fall asleep.

As a teenager, I once saw two films. It was a double feature of Psycho and Suzy Wong. Neither of the two were more than an occasional blur since I was sitting in the theatre's back'-row seats necking with a girlfriend while the psycho was making minced meat out of victims and Suzy Wong was being wooed by what seemed like a middle aged American tourist. The rest of the audience might have been thoroughly engrossed. We couldn't have cared less.

 

[Ana the Ist]

All can definitely can be viewed that way.
It is really up the individual person and how he chooses to perceive them .
In any given audience there are those who are totally bored, alongside with others who are intellectually fascinated, alongside others who might be totally bored nd walk out or fall asleep.

As a teenager, I once "saw" two films. Psycho and Suzy Wong.
Neither of the two were more than an occasional blur since I was sitting in the theatre's back'-row seats necking with a girlfriend while the psycho was making minced meat out of victims and Suzy Wong was being wooed by what seemed like a middle aged American tourist. The rest of the audience might have been thoroughly engrossed. We couldn't have cared less.

I think the important part is to see who made the film, to understand the story how they wanted to tell it.

Can you tell me who made this film?

Edit- it's called "The Next Voice You Hear" obviously Morgan Freeman wasn't available because you don't even hear god's voice. I read through a transcript...and the scene you mentioned I couldn't find. You sure you weren't thinking of the mom in the story? Apparently it caused her some difficulty.

 

[Radrook]

Interestingly, the film version is based on an original short story which depicts the seemingly generous aliens as short potbellied, porcine-like creatures wearing shorts. This motivated me to write two unpublished short stories. One called The Givers and the other The Question. When my computer crashed both were lost unless I can find the cd's where I might have stored them.

 

[Radrook]

I think the important part is to see who made the film, to understand the story how they wanted to tell it.

Can you tell me who made this film?

Edit- it's called "The Next Voice You Hear" obviously Morgan Freeman wasn't available because you don't even hear god's voice. I read through a transcript...and the scene you mentioned I couldn't find. You sure you weren't thinking of the mom in the story? Apparently it caused her some difficulty.

Here is the info you requested:

To Serve Man

Episode no. Season 3

Episode 90 Directed by Richard L. Bare

Written by Rod Serling (Based on the story To Serve Man by Damon Knight)

Featured music Stock (from Jerry Goldsmith's scores for "Back Serving women " and "The Invaders")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29

Sorry, I see that you are referring to the other film I mentioned.
No, I don't have that exact info, I saw that film decades ago and was describing it in generalities based on the little I remember. So I am definitely not claiming expertise on it nor am I seeking a heated debate on its merits or demerits since that would throw the thread off topic.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here is the info you requested:



Sorry, I see that you are referring to the other film I mentioned.
No, I don't have that exact info but it can easily be found by going to WIKI.
There you will probably find the confirmation that you seek.

No I was referring to your movie about god on the radio.

 

[Radrook]

No I was referring to your movie about god on the radio.

What about it?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What about it?

[quoteNext Voice You Hear

You know what? Don't you worry about it...take care now.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I'd want to know if the message was an invitation to meet us, ... or a dinner bell.

Reminds me of Damon Knight's 1950 short story "To Serve Man" (used on The Twilight Zone) where benevolent aliens arrive with superior technology that they freely offer as an end to poverty, hunger, and disease. One guy finds a book on one of the spaceships with the eponymous title; when he opens it he finds to his horror that it's... a cookbook!

ETA: Oops - gazumped; that'll teach me not to read ahead when replying