Racism and Antisemitism and personal opinion

[John of Seabeck]

I have regained respect for Whoopi Goldberg. She has actually voiced the truth about the EVIL of Racism and Antisemitism, and how it has nothing to do with what our SOCIETY has called them; they are BOTH about Man’s inhumanity toward Man! It is, of course also about Satan [an entity too many do NOT wish to believe exists].

What Whoopi has unknowingly uncovered is that the WORDS are TOOLS of those with EVIL purpose. Unfortunately she has not thought about it; or analyzed it sufficiently to be fully aware or cognizant of her discovery. EVIL is “the thing”! Racism and Antisemitism, just like all the “anti-this or anti-that’s” are tools of intellectual distraction for the purpose of using “the thing” to best political advantage!

We [humans] ALL need to wake up about this manipulation. Every opinion or belief; or experience provides a TOOL BOX for EVIL, and those who seek to exploit that TOOL BOX on any particular day had better check with the “owners” or “supervisors” of that TOOL BOX before tampering with its contents! Whoopi did NOT and she is paying the price.
Like any American Whoopi Goldberg is simply expressing her thoughts. She admitted today that …"because she was black, she experienced race in a very personal way” and interpreted it as “the black woman” she in fact was ...and not more broadly as was POLITICALLY intended, particularly amongst those whom she had previously ...always been held in such high regard.
BUT: She still doesn’t realize that the problem is …if you are going to be in a group or movement that develops a TOOLBOX, you are permitted to reference tools within that box [e.g. “racism”] so long as you don’t try to modify or in any way change the TOOLS in the BOX. At least not without permission! Whoopi did that, and she is paying a deep price. But I respect her for her insight. Her next step should be to broaden that insight. SADLY …though I know she has the knowledge and ability, I doubt if she will have the courage! Few of us do!

John of Seabeck

 

[RDKirk]

Whoopi's detractors about that particular issue raise a question that nobody is stepping in to answer:

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

For sure, the Nazis characterized "Jew" as a racial distinction. But they also characterized Poles and Slavs as racial distinctions. At the time Hitler was creating his politics, most Europeans still considered Europe to be comprised by different "races," even though they were all "white." Yet, most of her detractors (for that statement) presented Nazi statements as "proof" that the Holocaust was a matter of "race."

Whoopi asserted, explicitly, that it's stupid to use the Nazi definitions of "race," because their definition was politically crafted specifically to designate ethnic groups they intended to enslave or exterminate. Why would we continue to use Nazi definitions of anything?

One article quoted Whoopi having said, that German Jews couldn't be distinguished from other Germans on the street, to which the article writer responed--unironically, in her mind--"Of course they could...they were required to wear arm bands!"

Whoopi certainly did not deny the Holocaust, only that the Nazis were driven by hatred of many groups rather than simple racism.

 

[Diamond7]

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

"Jew" is a derogatory slang word to mean Judaism. It has come to mean a group of people. But that is just so they can keep what they really are hidden so people can not defile it's purity. Even you see people who do not like to spell out the word G-D. We are told that the scribes could not write the name of God without first cleansing themselves. I try not to use the various names for God outside of the sanctuary.

The men and the women go through classes when they are 12 or 13 years old. They are then accepted into the Faith. It is a race in that they are descendants of Abraham and Sarah. The Muslims are descendants of Abraham and the Egyptian Hagar. The land given to Abrahams's descendants is what we now call the Arab Contential Plate. It is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. It will become the New Jerusalem. They do not require a DNA test but they do require military service if you want to move to Israel today.

I study Kaballah under the Hasidic teachers on Youtube. Mostly I am trying to learn Hebrew. They are ready, willing and able to teach anyone interested if the people are "Jewish" or not. But their main focus is to teach the women. Because the women teach the children. I asked a question once and I was told they would be glad to answer my questions for $300 an hour. But they teach the 12 & 13 year old women for free.

 

[RDKirk]

"Jew" is a derogatory slang word to mean Judaism.

Someone should tell the Jews that, so that they can stop calling themselves Jews.

 

[FireDragon76]

Whoopi's detractors about that particular issue raise a question that nobody is stepping in to answer:

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

For sure, the Nazis characterized "Jew" as a racial distinction. But they also characterized Poles and Slavs as racial distinctions. At the time Hitler was creating his politics, most Europeans still considered Europe to be comprised by different "races," even though they were all "white." Yet, most of her detractors (for that statement) presented Nazi statements as "proof" that the Holocaust was a matter of "race."

Whoopi asserted, explicitly, that it's stupid to use the Nazi definitions of "race," because their definition was politically crafted specifically to designate ethnic groups they intended to enslave or exterminate. Why would we continue to use Nazi definitions of anything?

One article quoted Whoopi having said, that German Jews couldn't be distinguished from other Germans on the street, to which the article writer responed--unironically, in her mind--"Of course they could...they were required to wear arm bands!"

Whoopi certainly did not deny the Holocaust, only that the Nazis were driven by hatred of many groups rather than simple racism.

That's true enough. Nazis were at war with liberal society in general.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Whoopi's detractors about that particular issue raise a question that nobody is stepping in to answer:

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

Obviously it's going to depend upon the Jewish person you're asking....but I know that a number of them believe both. It's not just a religion, but because of some tradition of certain families holding certain religious positions....since the beginning of Judaism....there's a racial aspect as well according to them.

For sure, the Nazis characterized "Jew" as a racial distinction. But they also characterized Poles and Slavs as racial distinctions. At the time Hitler was creating his politics, most Europeans still considered Europe to be comprised by different "races," even though they were all "white." Yet, most of her detractors (for that statement) presented Nazi statements as "proof" that the Holocaust was a matter of "race."

I don't think there's any real argument it was about race. Whoopi simply has a different conception of race than 1920s-1950s Europeans.

There's no correct conception. They're all wrong....they're all just made up.

Whoopi asserted, explicitly, that it's stupid to use the Nazi definitions of "race," because their definition was politically crafted specifically to designate ethnic groups they intended to enslave or exterminate. Why would we continue to use Nazi definitions of anything?

Well we can argue the same about literally any conception of race.

One article quoted Whoopi having said, that German Jews couldn't be distinguished from other Germans on the street, to which the article writer responed--unironically, in her mind--"Of course they could...they were required to wear arm bands!"

Certain physical characteristics like....ugh....nose size were also attributed to Jewish people.

Whoopi certainly did not deny the Holocaust, only that the Nazis were driven by hatred of many groups rather than simple racism.

Well if you want to get technical, a lot of the racial stuff is window dressing for a very real problem of impending famine and overpopulation. Despite losses in WW1, Europe was packed with people and its not as if farmland was increasing. Modern farming methods had not been invented yet, so the solution to this problem formed the backbone of Hitlers' political ideology.....seizing as much land for Germany through military conquest, and the extermination of undesirable peoples.

 

[Ken-1122]

Obviously it's going to depend upon the Jewish person you're asking....but I know that a number of them believe both. It's not just a religion, but because of some tradition of certain families holding certain religious positions....since the beginning of Judaism....there's a racial aspect as well according to them.

I don't think Jewism is a race but a culture/ ethnicity; as well as a religion (like many religions). Race is about physical characteristics, ethnicity is something often anybody can join.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think Jewism is a race but a culture/ ethnicity; as well as a religion (like many religions). Race is about physical characteristics, ethnicity is something often anybody can join.

In the case of Ashkenazi Jews, "race" by any genetic distinction has fallen far below the "one drop" level.

 

[Ken-1122]

In the case of Ashkenazi Jews, "race" by any genetic distinction has fallen far below the "one drop" level.

Not familiar with Ashkenzai Jews; do they use race out of context? If race is about physical features, how are Jewish physical features different from say.... Muslims?

 

[RDKirk]

Not familiar with Ashkenzai Jews; do they use race out of context? If race is about physical features, how are Jewish physical features different from say.... Muslims?

I'll put it this way: The Nazis had to check family records and require Ashkenazim to wear armbands to distinguish them on the street from other Germans.

That reminds me of an old movie I watched as a kid, starring Sidney Poitier and Bobby Darin. Hmm. I just looked it up. It was "Pressure Point" from 1962. Poitier played a prison psychiatrist treating an American Nazi sympathizer (Darin) during World War II. The thing I really remember most clearly was Darin saying to Poitier, "When we come for you, you won't need an armband."

 

[John of Seabeck]

This was a great series of discussions. One that I found most interesting was the realization that those inclined to eliminate those of us who they find "unacceptable" no longer need arm bands to target; they have social media and what they consider our "abuse" of freedom of speech. Now all "they" need is our e-mail address to know who to target. I suppose we should all be cowering in fear, if ...as Christians and Americans ...that's all we're about. Blessings to all. John of Seabeck

 

[Diamond7]

Someone should tell the Jews that, so that they can stop calling themselves Jews.

They do not want people to know what they call themselves.

 

[Diamond7]

"unacceptable"

Unproductive is a better word. They target people who are not productive and do not contribute to the common cause. A very high percentage of Downs syndrome are aborted because they would need someone to take care of them all of their life.

 

[RDKirk]

Remember years back, a decade or longer, when it was repeated something like this "first, they came for the elderly; then they came for the very young; then they came for the sick; then they came for the mentally slow; then they came for the overweight; then they came for the underweight; then they came for those too tall or too short; then they simply came for anyone not of the correct race" ....

so one by one or two by two they came for different groups and imprisoned then slaughtered them.

That was a paraphrase of something even older:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

 

[Diamond7]

diagnosis were entirely wrong.

I had a friend who was told his son would have downs syndrome. Turns out if he did it was so mild that no one noticed. My brother specialized in downs and he even wrote a medical school text book on it.

 

[Ken-1122]

I'll put it this way: The Nazis had to check family records and require Ashkenazim to wear armbands to distinguish them on the street from other Germans.

Call me a sell-out, but I would have just switched armbands!

 

[Ken-1122]

I read, then re-read the post, albeit lightly.... this one final sentence left a question maybe most important ''
Courage for what ?

The courage to rearrange the tools in the toolbox, developed by the group she has chosen to be a part of.
She had the audacity to tell the truth about racism, and say the Holocaust was not about race, but about hatred against Jews. She said the Nazi’s were white, and Jews are white; which is true. But progressives took offense to that claiming it was about race, and because she is in a position where she has to care what progressives think of her, she was forced to apologize and take it back.

 

[RDKirk]

The courage to rearrange the tools in the toolbox, developed by the group she has chosen to be a part of.
She had the audacity to tell the truth about racism, and say the Holocaust was not about race, but about hatred against Jews. She said the Nazi’s were white, and Jews are white; which is true. But progressives took offense to that claiming it was about race, and because she is in a position where she has to care what progressives think of her, she was forced to apologize and take it back.

Part of the tragic silliness is that to assert that Jews form a race, progressives must use the Nazi definitions of race and the Nazi declaration that Jews are a race.

Why would we want to accept the Nazi definitions of race? Why would we want to accept any Nazi declaration of race? The Nazis also declared that Slavs and Poles are separate races...are we accepting that?

 

[Diamond7]

Does "Jew" designate a race or a religion?

Race - maybe the only pure race. This means genetic or DNA. The Bible uses the word: "generations". Science does not use the word race anymore because there is so little purity. They go by the one-drop rule, which goes back to the ‎Antebellum era and was even law at one time. If they are 1/8 black, they still consider themselves black. But they do not like to associate with Africa. Today science likes to use the word culture. There was a huge issue in England with King Charles because his son is married to Meghan. I was amazed that the Queen dies, and there is a new king but the news is dominated by Megan.

 

[Diamond7]

Why would we want to accept the Nazi definitions of race? Why would we want to accept any Nazi declaration of race? The Nazis also declared that Slavs and Poles are separate races...are we accepting that?

This goes back to planned parenthood and its founder Margaret Sanger. Sanger believed in eugenics — an inherently racist and ableist ideology that labeled certain people unfit to have children. From 1933 to 1945, Nazi Germany carried out a campaign to “cleanse” the German society of individuals viewed as biological threats to the nation's “health.”

As I said before. In high school, my dorm father was a part of Hitler's youth and he got sent to the front when he was 12 years old toward the end of the war. He got thrown into a Polish prisoner-of-war camp where a guard knocked out one of his eyes with the butt of his rifle. He made a pole volt from a tree and was able to volt his way over the fence and escape.