Pixar's Turning Red and "Controversy"

[muichimotsu]

This is like a discussion I frequently have with Star Trek fans.

'Way back when the science fiction series "Babylon 5" was first airing, the primary writer J. Michael Straczynski also ran a group on CompuServe. Every Monday after the Sunday show, he'd discuss the episode with fans.

At one point, a fan asked him about what the characters did after one particular scene ended. Straczynski said, "The actors took off their make-up and when home."

"Turning Red" is not a true life story. It is fiction. There is nothing more than what was written and displayed.

There is no "can be" or "could be." There is nothing more to it than what was written and displayed.

If it wasn't shown, it didn't "happen."

Never claimed it was true, that's a strawman of me on your part.

Speculation on something that is mostly rooted in reality is hardly the same as regarding a fantasy world otherwise. I never said it was certain, you clearly missed my qualifier that this was speculated and not anything more than a fan theory.

Just because something doesn't have that sense of reality doesn't make it useless, otherwise you throw out fantasy and fiction altogether as something that can enrich our lives.

 

[muichimotsu]

Doesn't this amount to Hollywood or in general others thinking they need to raise other people's kids?

I talked to mine, and didn't want nor did I ask for Hollywood to be involved..

When my daughter and I had arguments, so that we weren't speaking in anger to each other, or saying things we may regret, we would write letters back and forth until we both felt the issue resolved and understood with one another.

That worked for us, but may not work for every child.. my son for instance thought it was crazy, and used to laugh at our "fights".

Honestly, it's not your job, nor Hollywood's, to tell anyone how to raise their kids. Go write a parenting book, those who want to read it and take advice from it will.

But movie's specifically targeting young kids (aka animated and cartoon) that are trying to raise other people's kids are.. intrusive and basically offensive.

If you think no one else can even offer a suggestion, then you're sheltering your child and encouraging co dependence

The point of these movies is not remotely to tell parents how to raise their kids, but at most to give them a sense of perspective that many are sorely missing because they think ONLY THEY know what's best for their children. That familiarity can, and often does, breed a contempt for any correction from others, which is where we get the kind of fringe and dangerous ideas that brought back freaking measles that we essentially wiped out in 2000

 

[muichimotsu]

The target market for "Turning Red" isn't kids. The target market is Millennials who were young teens in the early 2000s and right now have their own pre-teens or young teens (arguably, adults are the target market of all the PG-rated Pixar movies). The central message of the movie is for them, not their kids.

If the movie had been targeted at today's kids, it would have been set in the 2020s. It's set in 2002 and tells the story of teens in 2002. For instance, it was a critical plot point for Mei to discover that her estranged friend Miriam had been keeping her Tamagotchi alive during their estrangement. Only people familiar with the constant demands of the Tamagotchi toy would understand how much dedication to the friendship that effort required. The rest of us could surmise it from the reactions of the characters, but the "Tamagotchi generation" would know.

Sad to admit I did have a Tamagotchi, but then again, did plenty of cringey stuff like Mei does too, so yeah, it definitely is for my generation or so, though I don't know many of my friends even wanting kids, so it's weird in that sense.

 

[mama2one]

How Did Pixar’s Delightful ‘Turning Red’ Become the Target of Sexist, Racist Controversy?

“By rooting Turning Red very specifically in the Asian community of Toronto, the film legitimately feels like it was made for Domee Shi’s friends and immediate family members, which is fine,” the review wrote, “but also, a tad limiting in its scope.”



when our family watched this movie, it definitely was targeted specifically for my young teen daughter......NOT targeted to us parents

nothing in it "spoke to us parents" but only to our daughter

after our kid turned age 11, the "panda" of emotions definitely showed up.....our "sweet little girl" was disappearing
however, it's all part of growing up....the push, pull away from parents into becoming independent & standing on one's own

the "panda" emotions of our kid was often rooted in frustration....not wanting us parents to have control
we needed to allow our kid more & more responsibility & allow child to grow into her own

 

[muichimotsu]

How Did Pixar’s Delightful ‘Turning Red’ Become the Target of Sexist, Racist Controversy?

“By rooting Turning Red very specifically in the Asian community of Toronto, the film legitimately feels like it was made for Domee Shi’s friends and immediate family members, which is fine,” the review wrote, “but also, a tad limiting in its scope.”



when our family watched this movie, it definitely was targeted specifically for my young teen daughter......NOT targeted to us parents

nothing in it "spoke to us parents" but only to our daughter

after our kid turned age 11, the "panda" of emotions definitely showed up.....our "sweet little girl" was disappearing
however, it's all part of growing up....the push, pull away from parents into becoming independent & standing on one's own

the "panda" emotions of our kid was often rooted in frustration....not wanting us parents to have control
we needed to allow our kid more & more responsibility & allow child to grow into her own

So in an indirect way, parents learn something from the film, even if the main plot is meant to be for teens, since the lead is a teen herself

 

[RDKirk]

How Did Pixar’s Delightful ‘Turning Red’ Become the Target of Sexist, Racist Controversy?

“By rooting Turning Red very specifically in the Asian community of Toronto, the film legitimately feels like it was made for Domee Shi’s friends and immediate family members, which is fine,” the review wrote, “but also, a tad limiting in its scope.”

As a black man nearly 70s years old, I categorically deny that statement.

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, just as I enjoyed that Pixar movie about the trash compactor with binocular eyes. Or a clownfish. Was I supposed to relate only to "Up?" But wait, that was a white man with an Asian kid tagging with him? How was I supposed to relate even to that?

No, I deny that statement, and I'll assert that it is a racist and or misogynistic attitude that would prevent anyone who could relate to any other Pixar movie from relating to "Turning Red."

when our family watched this movie, it definitely was targeted specifically for my young teen daughter......NOT targeted to us parents

nothing in it "spoke to us parents" but only to our daughter

after our kid turned age 11, the "panda" of emotions definitely showed up.....our "sweet little girl" was disappearing
however, it's all part of growing up....the push, pull away from parents into becoming independent & standing on one's own

the "panda" emotions of our kid was often rooted in frustration....not wanting us parents to have control

Your daughter didn't need a movie to tell her to act that way, and it wasn't a movie that gave her the idea to act that way. That was going to happen anyway--puberty is an unstoppable phenomenon.

we needed to allow our kid more & more responsibility & allow child to grow into her own

And that was the message of the movie, a message for parents, not for kids. Mei didn't need to be her head screwed on straight, her mother did.

 

[mama2one]

And that was the message of the movie, a message for parents, not for kids. Mei didn't need to be her head screwed on straight, her mother did.

just asked my kid what she liked about movie & she said "when mei turned into the panda" because "she likes red pandas" & that's the ONLY thing she now claims to have liked about the movie

again....as a parent, I got NO message from the movie
my fav part was the red pandas, also

I thought movie parent was TOO overprotective!

we recently sent kid out of town (2 1/2 hrs away) for a Christian teen overnight trip & she went on numerous out of town day trips for speech/debate this past year
we not overprotective like Mei's mom

 

[RDKirk]

just asked my kid what she liked about movie & she said "when mei turned into the panda" because "she likes red pandas" & that's the ONLY thing she now claims to have liked about the movie

again....as a parent, I got NO message from the movie
my fav part was the red pandas, also

I also thought movie parent was TOO overprotective!

That was a message from the movie to parents.

And you got it.

"...do not provoke your children to anger."

 

[mama2one]

That was a message from the movie to parents.
And you got it."

nope, movies don't give me messages that I already know
movies are ONLY entertainment to me

I've been giving more & more responsibility to kid since age 11.....a whole 3 yrs before seeing movie!

 

[RDKirk]

nope, movies don't give me messages that I already know
movies are ONLY entertainment to me

I've been giving more & more responsibility to kid since age 11.....a whole 3 yrs before seeing movie!

You don't need to have been ignorant of the message to "get" the message.

 

[mama2one]

You don't need to have been ignorant of the message to "get" the message.

have no idea what you're talking about but at age 70, I'm sure it's been quite a while since you've been a parent to a young teen girl

 

[muichimotsu]

As a black man nearly 70s years old, I categorically deny that statement.

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie, just as I enjoyed that Pixar movie about the trash compactor with binocular eyes. Or a clownfish. Was I supposed to relate only to "Up?" But wait, that was a white man with an Asian kid tagging with him? How was I supposed to relate even to that?

No, I deny that statement, and I'll assert that it is a racist and or misogynistic attitude that would prevent anyone who could relate to any other Pixar movie from relating to "Turning Red."



Your daughter didn't need a movie to tell her to act that way, and it wasn't a movie that gave her the idea to act that way. That was going to happen anyway--puberty is an unstoppable phenomenon.



And that was the message of the movie, a message for parents, not for kids. Mei didn't need to be her head screwed on straight, her mother did.

Don't act like Mei did nothing wrong just because she's going through puberty, children can learn a message here of how to talk to their parents or at least understand they are going through problems too

 

[RDKirk]

Don't act like Mei did nothing wrong just because she's going through puberty, children can learn a message here of how to talk to their parents or at least understand they are going through problems too

They may understand that they're going through problems, but they will also have no experience in dealing with what they're going through.

This movie reminds parents that they do have experience, and that they have a chance to help their children through those problems...if they don't pretend puberty is not going to happen.

And the situation is more critical now than ever. Back in 2002, before cell phones, most kids still entered into puberty with a great deal of naiveté.

These days, kids have seen hardcore pornography by nine or ten years old, and some--even girls--are addicted to it by 13.

 

[muichimotsu]

They may understand that they're going through problems, but they will also have no experience in dealing with what they're going through.

This movie reminds parents that they do have experience, and that they have a chance to help their children through those problems...if they don't pretend puberty is not going to happen.

It's called empathy, kids are way better at that in my experience anyway, they can understand the general problem, even if they don't have that specific experience Mei does with her mother.

And the situation is more critical now than ever. Back in 2002, before cell phones, most kids still entered into puberty with a great deal of naiveté.

These days, kids have seen hardcore pornography by nine or ten years old, and some--even girls--are addicted to it by 13.

I mean, that's a big assertion to make without supporting it and the qualification of "hardcore" seems more like you're exaggerating to make some prudish point instead of addressing how pornography in itself is not the issue, because humans are generally sexual creatures and that kind of entertainment is not new, only in the formats it's presented and the attempts at "immersion" or such with modern technology and sensibilities

Being sex positive is easy to claim to be, but actually living it in principle involves more than just some acknowledgement that people have sexual desires when the suggestion from certain Christian groups seems more often to just be repression, which is the opposite of sex positive

 

[RDKirk]

It's called empathy, kids are way better at that in my experience anyway, they can understand the general problem, even if they don't have that specific experience Mei does with her mother.

Empathy doesn't help when it's you that is overcome by new chemical imbalances.

I mean, that's a big assertion to make without supporting it and the qualification of "hardcore" seems more like you're exaggerating to make some prudish point

I'm talking about young kids accessing pornhub.com on their cell phones. I don't think it's "prudish" to categorize that website as "hardcore pornography."

instead of addressing how pornography in itself is not the issue, because humans are generally sexual creatures and that kind of entertainment is not new, only in the formats it's presented and the attempts at "immersion" or such with modern technology and sensibilities

What's new is that hardcore pornography is incredibly more accessible to children now than it's ever been...it's literally right at their fingertips.

Pornography itself is an issue. There are significant studies that pornography make some of the same changes in the brain that chemically addictive substances make.

Moreover, pornography causes children to believe that what they see on pornographic websites is what sexual relations are supposed to look like, and it's sheer volume is more convincing than parents or teachers can be.

I've actually had conversations with teenagers about their pornography habits, and its pervasiveness and its affects on their sexual attitudes.

Being sex positive is easy to claim to be, but actually living it in principle involves more than just some acknowledgement that people have sexual desires when the suggestion from certain Christian groups seems more often to just be repression, which is the opposite of sex positive

I don't know why you're trying to make that point with me.

 

[mama2one]

I'm talking about young kids accessing pornhub.com on their cell phones.

why would "young kids" have a cell phone?
unnecessary for a young kid to have one

our kid is 14 & I see NO reason for her to have a cell

I didn't even want one but husband got me one for Christmas the yr we became parents....he said "in case of emergency" and that's what it's for....no one has my number except husband....not the school, not any other family member, NO ONE.....I won't give it out

 

[Hazelelponi]

The target market for "Turning Red" isn't kids.

I would beg to differ, as adults don't watch cartoons. They tend to leave childhood behind, even millennials.

I'll leave it here, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[RDKirk]

why would "young kids" have a cell phone?
unnecessary for a young kid to have one

our kid is 14 & I see NO reason for her to have a cell

I didn't even want one but husband got me one for Christmas the yr we became parents....he said "in case of emergency" and that's what it's for....no one has my number except husband....not the school, not any other family member, NO ONE.....I won't give it out

A lot of young kids do have cell phones. Many kids in middle school have them, and those who have them show "neat" things to those who don't.

As I've said, I work with teenaged boys, and we talk about porn, many of those I've talked to had seen it on cell phones as early as the seventh grade...and those were high schoolers, so it had been going on for several years even then.

Don't keep your head in the sand about pornography addiction among teenagers.

 

[RDKirk]

I would beg to differ, as adults don't watch cartoons. They tend to leave childhood behind, even millennials.

I'll leave it here, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

I certainly will disagree. Pixar has a huge adult market. Huge. Millennials have not by any means left them behind.


And, BTW, all those old-school Warner Brothers cartoons we used to watch as kids were originally produced as movie shorts for adults.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It is a mistake to think of movies like Turning Red or any other movie as primarily a means of teaching a lesson. It is not. It is entertainment. That is the core purpose of movies. But there are many ways of entertaining. Some movies use humor, like the 20th century Warner Brothers cartoons. Movies that do teach a lesson do not so much teach as help the viewer realize something within themselves that was there all along. Sticking with Pixar, we can look at Soul, which teaches that we should appreciate the little moments of life and live every minute of it. Or Coco, which teaches the value of remembering our loved ones. But if that's all they did - teach a lesson - they would be big flops. People do not watch Soul or Coco to learn a lesson. They watch it to have their emotions taken for a ride. Good movies present characters in such a way that we grow to care about them. As @RDKirk observed, movies can even make us care about a trash-compacting robot just as much as an eleven year old girl from Eden Prairie who moves to San Francisco. Usually, the characters we have grown to care about have a satisfying resolution. But not always. Take Grave of the Fireflies, an animated film from Studio Ghibli where the only characters we have grown to care about both die of starvation. Even that is entertaining in a sad sort of way. If movies teach a lesson, it is only as a side-effect and not the principle goal of the filmmakers.

That said, it is often the case that good movies do teach a lesson. As for Turning Red, people see lessons in it depending on where they are coming from. It may not even be a lesson that was envisioned by the director. I liked it because it subverts expectations. I was surprised to see Mei's three friends remain supportive the entire movie. A more hackneyed writing of the script would have made Mei totally isolated so as to increase the tension. Or they might have made Mei handicapped or a poor student or have a totally toxic relationship with her mother. But no. Mei had a reasonably good relationship with her mother and her mother really did care about her. There really was no stereotypical villain such as we saw in many of the early Disney movies. Everyone had a redemption arc - even Tyler, the school bully! This is satisfying entertainment, lesson or no lesson. We might say the characters in the movie learned lessons - not the viewers. We like to watch others learn lessons that we sort of knew and are being reminded of through the film.

I don't know if any of you watch "reaction videos", but this is a whole genre of YouTube videos made by all sorts of different YouTubers. There are reaction videos to just about any big name movie you might mention. In particular, there are a ton of reaction videos to Turning Red. These are supposedly made by the YouTuber watching the movie for the very first time and reacting to it with commentary along the way. Some are pretty good. Others are downright boring. But they do give a good window into what moves people in real time. It is very different from a carefully-crafted review made after watching a movie. In many of these videos, the YouTuber cries at certain scenes. This says more than any review. Anyway, I have watched a few reaction videos to Turning Red, and the places that gets the strongest reaction from the viewer are when Ming shows the drawings to Devon and others, when Mei is thrashing about in her empty cell of a room (so there won't be any more accidents), when Mei doesn't stand up for her friends accused by Ming of corrupting her after the Tyler party, when Mei's friends and 4Town join the chant at the Sky Dome, and when Mei comforts a young Ming in the bamboo forest. Just go to YouTube and search for "Turning Red reaction".