Most OT prophetic passages futurists *think* are about the End Times, aren't

[Oseas]

What you are saying is from and for them which are in darkness.
What does the Word of GOD say? The Word is GOD. 1 Thessalonians 5:v. 4 - But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief.

You replied :

That's about preparedness in Christ, not forewarnedness.
It's about status, not timetable, relationship - not timetable, faith in Christ, NOT TIMETABLE!

What Christ are you referring? You should know that FIRST will come a/the FALSE Christ. To what Christ are you working? My Lord JESUS warned clearly the apearance of the false christ as I said to you in my prior posts #161 and #178, as follow:

POST #161
- Having ended the first 42-month period (the first half of the week), imediately the MAN Beast like a lamb, a false lamb, a false messiah, the ESOTERIC/KABBALIST/ SPIRITIST and RUTHLESS messiah of the Jews will be enthroned as the ruler of the satanic Antichrist's Empire by 1.260 days plus 30 days=1.290 DAYS, and the Abomination of Desolation will sit in the Holy Place,

The false messiah of the Jews-John 5:v.43 to 47- will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called GOD, or that is worshiped; so that he as GOD sits in the temple of GOD, shewing himself that he is GOD. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the Truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause GOD SHALL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth-1Th.2.

POST #178
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
- (Soon will manifest the Beast of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, actually a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTER, as said JESUS -John 5:v.43 combined with Revelation 13:v.11-18. Check it out).

Be careful or get ready

 

[Oseas]

It seems you need to reread the forum rules and calm down a bit. I'm Amil - a respected branch of CHRISTIAN eschatology - and would ask you bite hard down on whatever bit you can chomp on rather than type junk like this OK? I'm your Christian brother in Christ - and you need to hold this kind of judgemental spiritually superior rhetoric back, IF we're going to continue this discussion. You get like this twice in this post. It does not make your case attractive. Sadly, it DOES seem quite typical these days of how frustrated futurists fight when failing.

I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, didn't you understand this deep mystery yet? I do not know word more powerful than the Word of GOD. What you are above saying is more a proof that the WORD of GOD is TRUE where He -the Word is GOD- says : "The Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we must render an account"-Heb.4:12-13.

THE WORD IS GOD, YEAH, the Word is GOD, do you believe? It's a mystery, the WORD is not mere letters. The WORD has a NAME, the WORD was made flesh. The WORD is the Power. The WORD is the Creator. The WORD is Light. Let there be light.

Be careful

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Revelation was written in 90 AD which is a fatally inconvenient fact for preteriism and amil, after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

How is this a problem for Amil? It's not.

Revelation is obviously about future events.

But, not only about future events. It was addressed to seven churches in the first century Roman province of Asia and Jesus spoke to those churches about things happening in those actual churches back then.

Also, there is this:

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

John was told to write about things that had already happened, which were happening then and that would happen from that point on. To view Revelation as just a book about future events is a mistake on your part.

In short, I can’t possibly believe in preterism and Amillennialism, because I’ve actually read the entire bible.

Are you sure you've read this:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

How do you interpret this passage? The context is in relation to the promise of the second coming of Christ. Peter pointed out that just as the world was flooded in water long ago "the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire". Again, he was saying this in relation to the second coming of Christ.

Then later Peter points out that the Lord is not being slow in keeping the promise of His second coming. That is followed by a description of the burning up of the heavens and the earth. Which is followed by Peter saying "according to his promise", which is the promise of Christ's second coming (see verse 4), we look forward to "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness". So, Peter indicated that the way in which the Lord will keep the promise of His second coming is by ushering in "the new heavens and a new earth". How does that line up with your Premil belief? In the Premil view, you're looking forward to an earthly millennial kingdom rather than the new heavens and new earth.

The key of actually understanding what Jesus was saying there, is the fact that the 7 year tribulation is divided into THE tribulation for 3.5 years, then the GREAT tribulation for 3.5 years - and Jesus uses both terms in Matthew 24.

Jesus says that right after THE tribulation of those days (the first 3.5 years) the day of the Lord and rapture will occur - confirming that the rapture is after the first half of the 7 year tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after THE tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus says that AFTER the mid trib event of the abomination of desolation in verse 15 occurs, there shall be GREAT tribulation - confirming that the last half of the tribulation, called the great tribulation, occurs after that mid trib AOD event.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be GREAT tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

So the account is THE tribulation - the first 3.5 years - followed by the AOD, verse 15, and DOL, verse 29, and the rapture, verses 30 and 31 - then the GREAT tribulation starts, right after the AOD mid trib event, the DOL, and rapture occurs.

That puts the abomination of desolation, the Day of the Lord, and the rapture right smack in the middle, between THE tribulation, and the GREAT tribulation - in a mid trib rapture.

None of what you said here makes any sense. Where does it indicate that there is GREAT tribulation following His coming "after the tribulation of those days" when the elect are gathered? Where is the description of that "GREAT tribulation" that supposedly follows what is described in verses 30 and 31?

 

[Oseas]

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
- (Soon will manifest the Beast of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, actually a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTER, as said JESUS -John 5:v.43 combined with Revelation 13:v.11-18. Check it out).

You replied my post above as quoted bellow:

Rubbish - many false messiahs came JUST before AD70 - and indeed CAUSED the Roman destruction of AD70 by their constant uprisings.

I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, understand?
I quoted above Matthew 5 where JESUS says specifically many will come IN HIS NAME. "MANY WILL COME IN MY NAME, saying I am Christ, and will deceive many -JESUS said.
What you are saying and preaching has nothing to do with what JESUS said, none of them you refer came in the name of JESUS, therefore what you said is more a counterfeit of the Word of GOD. Be careful or get ready. The testimone of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy.

Rubbish??? - Oh no, I work with the Word of GOD. I quoted Matthew 24:v.5, and John 5:v.43 combined with Revelation 13:v.11-18. The Word is GOD, understand?

Again: Rubbish?? - Oh no, remember that JESUS said that of the abundance of the heart mouth speaketh. You said Rubbish because it was in your heart, it is what came from your heart according the Word of GOD. JESUS said: A good MAN out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil MAN out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Get ready

 

[eclipsenow]

I work with the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, didn't you understand this deep mystery yet? I do not know word more powerful than the Word of GOD. What you are above saying is more a proof that the WORD of GOD is TRUE where He -the Word is GOD- says : "The Word of GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we must render an account"-Heb.4:12-13.

THE WORD IS GOD, YEAH, the Word is GOD, do you believe? It's a mystery, the WORD is not mere letters. The WORD has a NAME, the WORD was made flesh. The WORD is the Power. The WORD is the Creator. The WORD is Light. Let there be light.

Be careful

This lazy lecturing completely ignores that our eschatological presuppositions are entirely different. You're reduced to just repeating. EG: "AS I SAID in my post xyz" - add a large dose of indignation, some bad grammar and patronising lecturing - and that's your post style.

I don't know if I'll stick around for more 'conversation' with you if this is what it is going to be like. You're lecturing me about the sufficiency of the word of God - yet I doubt you know off the top of your head what Sola Scriptura means. I doubt you've thought through the implications of your emotionally-driven futurism.

How are we to even approach Revelation in the first place? I'm convinced John tells us how to read his book 4 times in the first chapter - and it's about and to his generation of Christians - and from there for all Christians moving forward through history.

1. "to show his servants what must soon take place" (Verse 1)
This is different to the normal 'Jesus is coming back soon' and 'Today is the day of salvation' call. This is specific. Soon TAKE PLACE. Particular things are about to happen, and John wants to write about them.

2. "blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it" (Verse 3)
That is, he wants them to meditate on it and obey it. How do you obey something written about and to people thousands of years later? Forget that - how do you even understand it? Imagine getting this message?
"On Mars most red in the year 4000 AD, the Zorg will Zazzle the Marines in Valles Marineris - and the smoke will rise to the heavens." Now obey this! See, if the command is not to you or about you - you cannot obey it. Period. There's nothing to take to heart, nothing to understand about you and your suffering. So how on earth do you obey this? You can barely even comprehend it - and even if you could - it's not to your and your situation or even about you. John's generation couldn't obey it. Not only that, what good has it been for the church for the last 2000 years - it's not about or to them - so how do they benefit? If anything makes me reject futurist readings of Revelation it is that it would render the majority of Revelation as utterly useless to Christians across the last 2000 years - and do nothing except confuse us and make us argue. That's simply NOT in the mission statement of Scripture as we read it in 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
3. "because the time is near." (Verse 3)
How many times does John have to say it in the one chapter for futurists to understand? I know it's exciting if Revelation is about us and our times. But surely there's a bit of narcissism in wanting it to be all about us? Surely there's a bit of a Messiah-complex we have as well, where WE want to be the ones that decode it FOR REAL THIS TIME (unlike the 10,000 other failed predictions and timelines out there). I think many of us want to be like Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies - full of certainty and dreadful purpose for the next few years. Fun movies - but give me a break! We are meant to be driven by Jesus' mission for the world - not endless arguing over our own navel gazing about what Revelation 'means to us'.
4. "I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." ( ESV - Verse 9)
John is already in the tribulation. It's already started - and John wants them to understand what to do ('endure with patient endurance' - a catchphrase through out the book - HINT HINT!) and what it means that God's chosen children should suffer like this. He wants them to obey it for real - because he's right there with them.

The futurist objects: "But the world has NEVER seen the stuff described in Revelation!" But it has. They're just not reading the symbols correctly. Hebrew number symbolism starts right back in the Old Testament and includes such devices as a disaster hitting one third of something (the world, the trees, the people). It means that it took a great number, but in God's grace more were left untouched than were destroyed. That's all. Like *most* Jewish number symbolism, it's not literal or numeric. It's theological - it means something else. Apocalyptic literature was common 200BC to 200AD - and has many other recognisable Jewish number and animal and other symbols. It is clearly a letter of encouragement John wrote to God's people about to suffer under Roman persecution. But not only that, there are temptations to despair when nature is also in chaos, natural disasters happen, persecution from tyrants break out and yet the wealth and security of the State call you to trust in Rome / Babylon / America / Australia / North Korea.
The futurist objects: "But how can we obey it if it's not about us?" Yet they don't object like this about any gospel or epistle. Corinthians was written to a specific church in a specific place with particular issues. We learn how to do the hermeneutics, and learn what it meant to the first century Christians in Corinth and what the underlying principles are that apply today. We are meant to do the same for Revelation. In fact, persecuted Christians that have read it this way have been greatly encouraged for 2000 years. Indeed, I've heard how Christians suffering Muslim persecution LAUGH AT at the idea John would turn around to his generation and say "You think you've got it bad - wait till you see what happens in 2000 years!" That's just absurd - and again goes against 2 Timothy 3:16-17's principle of giving the church back then everything they need.
The futurist objects: "But doesn't it become boring if it isn't about us?"
Revelation has been an encouragement for suffering Christians for the last 2000 years and when understood correctly, the imagery is a powerful warning against offending our God. It's terrifying! It also shouldn't surprise us that we're in a time of Covid 19 and natural disasters and climate change.
The futurist objects: "But I WANT to know what's going to happen!"
Too bad. God doesn't tell us. That's what all those parables were about after Matthew 24 - the thief in the night, the Days of Noah, the master returning to the bad servant, the maidens tending to their lamps, the parable of the talents - all tell us to be busy with God's work, trusting in Jesus, not slackening off and losing our faith precisely because we DO NOT know and ARE NOT given any warning as to when Jesus will return.
Revelation is not a timetable of events. It's not a linear story. It's not a forward march. It's a waltz - going around and around various themes. One chapter will cover the suffering brought on by war, then finish with images reminding us to stay true to Jesus because he's coming back! This is Judgement Day in Chapter 6. And just to highlight how we cannot read it as a linear timeline, Judgement Day happens again in Chapters 19 and 20! Revelation shows the one magnificent event from 3 different camera angles, focussing on different theological emphasis. It's not a timeline - and never was meant to be. Indeed, how does one even obey a timetable? What is there in it to 'take to heart'? No wonder futurist's get themselves in a knot and can't agree on almost a single thing!
Reading it properly will free modern Christians from the endless fretting over which credit card or computer chip might be the 'mark of the beast'. It will stop them being distracted by endless speculation over geopolitical matters and how they fit into a 'Revelation timetable'. Instead they'll find that as their timetables for the 'Last Days' get smaller, the gospel itself gets bigger and bolder. They'll live for Christ's mission more, and their own navel-gazing less. They'll be less prone to every wind of the latest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. They'll be more realistic about life, wiser in their planning, and encouraging to all.
To understand further, I recommend these 2 videos - 4 million views and rising.

To go deeper try Dr Paul Barnett - Phd in Ancient History, theologian and retired Sydney Anglican Bishop.
"Apocalypse Now and Then".
https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-now-then-reading-Revelation/dp/0949108421

 

[keras]

and that's your post style.

Yours is patronizing and belittling.
The reason it is virtually impossible for anyone who has a fixed belief of what God has planned for our future, is how the Lord will lock them into that belief.
Isaiah 29:9-12 is plain; those who have confused themselves by believing false teachings, are generally unable to change, no matter how much truth is presented to them.
We see this intransigence mostly with believers of the 'rapture to heaven' idea and AMill is another. Neither is Biblical, or even commonsense.

With the title of this thread; The AMill doctrine of the past fulfilment of all the prophecy of our era, before Jesus Returns, is so unbelievable and untenable, that its hard to see how anyone could hold to it.
AMill's simply cannot prove any past fulfilment of prophesies like; how a man will sit in the new Temple and declare himself to be God.
The terrible, vividly described cosmic events and much more.

 

[Oseas]

JESUS listed some events as visible signs of His coming and of the END of the current world of the Devil, as follow below:
Matthew 24:v.4 to 8

4 And Jesus answered and said unto His disciples:
- Take heed that no man deceive you. (this was the first concerns of JESUS). It seems you did not keep the warning of JESUS and are being deceived by false and devilish theories.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
- (Soon will manifest the Beast of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, actually a false lamb, a false messiah, AN IMPOSTER, as said JESUS -John 5:v.43 combined with Revelation 13:v.11-18. Check it out).

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet.

You replied my post above as quoted bellow:

No it's not - because it's the end of the temple and Jerusalem which he disciples - being Jewish - naturally thought of as the end of the world.

Oh no, we are talking about the prophetic sermon of JESUS on the Mount Olives. Concerning the destruction and "the end of the Temple", it has nothing to do with Mount Olives; Jesus was still leaving the den of the thiefs - the temple - when He prophesied its destruction.
You are not still understanding what JESUS prophesied about the destruction of the temple around 40 years after His ascension.

Who knows JESUS knows Truth, for He is the Truth. It is evident that the disciples of JESUS understood exactly what JESUS revealed unto them according the Spirit of Truth, even your spirit recognizes that they "naturally thought of as the end of the world". It could not be different in their understanding face by face with GOD, JESUS is GOD, understand?

It seems you are still sleeping deeply, no surprise because in fact it is midnight and the darkness in this hour is great. Anyway, wake up!

 

[eclipsenow]

Yours is patronizing and belittling.
The reason it is virtually impossible for anyone who has a fixed belief of what God has planned for our future, is how the Lord will lock them into that belief.
Isaiah 29:9-12 is plain; those who have confused themselves by believing false teachings, are generally unable to change...

There you go again - fulfilling this thread.

With the title of this thread; The AMill doctrine of the past fulfilment of all the prophecy of our era, before Jesus Returns, is so unbelievable and untenable, that its hard to see how anyone could hold to it.

Well, once again you've over simplified it.

But basically yes, MOST OT prophecies were about local historical situations that were fulfilled.

Some are about the Last Day.

AMill's simply cannot prove any past fulfilment of prophesies like; how a man will sit in the new Temple and declare himself to be God.

That's because that was never prophesied as a thing to happen in any third temple - so there's that!

The terrible, vividly described cosmic events and much more.

Yeah, I guess losing 1/20th of the human race to a super-flare scorching the Middle East would be bad. But worthy of 1/4 of all OT prophesies (as you claim?) I think not! Indeed, if we read those prophesies literally, aren't you nerfing it by making them exclusively about the Middle East? Don't they sound MORE universal than your petty-little version of a Day of the Lord? You've NERFED it. You've taken a deadly rain of artillery and turned them into foam nerf bullets. And now that you realise how small your "Day of the Lord" interpretation is, with just 5 years of normal population growth bringing that population back, I think you're less certain of your whole timetable.

 

[keras]

is English your second language?

Oseas, your English is fine.
I have no difficulty in understanding your points, I don't agree with all, but you are right in thinking that where a prophecy can literally be fulfilled, then it will be.
Like the thousand years of Rev 20.
And all of the Prophesies between Rev 6:12 to the end.

Misunderstanding occurs when the recipient does not want to change their beliefs. Because any admission of error, leaves them wide open to - what else have they got wrong?

 

[eclipsenow]

What you are preaching has nothing to do with the familiar relationship of JESUS and His disciples, what you say is false, it is FAKE, which explains why your spirit cannot enter this particular and peculiar environment of JESUS and His disciples.

Um, my spirit needs to enter a relationship with Jesus and his disciples? Huh? Do you mean there's something I'm not comprehending about how they were having this Olivet discussion, or are you telling me to have a 'relationship' with the disciples NOW as "Saint Peter" etc? Cause I'm protestant - and that flag just won't fly.

Oh and Keras, if you're so fine with his English - what do YOU think he means here?

 

[keras]

Oh and Keras, if you're so fine with his English - what do YOU think he means here?

Oseas is saying, in the nicest way possible; that your belief [of AMill] is wrong. He does, wrongly; question your Christian faith and an apology from him is needed for that.

In Oseas rejection of AMill, I agree with him. The idea that we are in the Millennium and Jesus is the world Ruler now, is not correct, for many reasons. And your lengthy posts, in your scathing manner, attempting to make a specific time period of a thousand years, into just an indefinite time, fails miserably.

Again - Jesus says: God has hidden the truths of His Plans for our future from the people who gain high, but man conferred qualifications. Matthew 11:25-26, 1 Corinthians 1:19-20, +
People must read the Bible for what it actually says, not what others think it says.

BTW, I am watching the T20 cricket. I would prefer Australia to win.

 

[Oseas]

Oseas, your English is fine.

Greetings in Christ JESUS, Keras

Thanks for the encouragement. You were / are very kind.

Honestly, for the first time I'm going to say something about myself, my time is to talk about the Word of God, we have entered the time of the end of all things, including the end of the two testaments, the Old and the New Testaments. Our time is short. I recognize that my English is not as good as yours, in fact English is not my native language. GOD made me born in this country, I was born and raised here in Brazil, the language here is Portuguese. That's why I write messages in English with great difficulty and with great effort to do the best I can and be understood.
I don't have enough vocabulary to converse in English. For example, what I just wrote for you is a more personal matter, in private matters I am zero in English, I am writing this with the help of a Portuguese to English translator. I also have an excellent English language dictionary as well as Portuguese-English Bibles.

Regarding subjects related to the Word of God, I write more easily because I am much more familiar with biblical themes and vocabulary than any everyday personal matters.

And speaking of matters related to the Word of our God, I would like to say that this moment in which we live and will live in the following days is to mortally wound one of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea, in fact an environment of war against one of the main religious partners of Satan on Earth, and Brazil is inside the environment of that head of the Beast which will be wounded to death, conform Revelation 13:v.2-4 combined with verses 13-14.

Oseas, your English is fine.
I have no difficulty in understanding your points, I don't agree with all, but you are right in thinking that where a prophecy can literally be fulfilled, then it will be.
Like the thousand years of Rev 20.
And all of the Prophesies between Rev 6:12 to the end.
Misunderstanding occurs when the recipient does not want to change their beliefs. Because any admission of error, leaves them wide open to - what else have they got wrong?

Yes, "the prophecy can literally be fulfilled, then it will be" as you have said, I see that the fulfillment of prophecy is and will always be AUTOMATICALLY because the Word is GOD and He executes His words exactly at the appointed time that it must be fulfilled automatically. The most wonderful exemple of automatic fulfillment of the prophetic Word of GOD at an appointed time was when the Word was made flesh in His own time. This is a very very deep example of the self-acting of the Word, as GOD in He Himself, in fulfillment of His own will as Word at appointed time in He Himself as Word. And was born JESUS. The Word is GOD. I feel and see it is not easy to write of the invisible Person of GOD. My point through this example was to highlight what you said: "the prophecy can literally be fulfilled, then it will be". Amen.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

I did a small cleanup. There is probably more; but I'm not going through 10 pages of your bickering to look for them. These personal attacks need to STOP NOW!

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[eclipsenow]

You neither know me, nor have ever known me. However, in the 4th quarter of 2022 after the summer of disasters in America you will. I told you what I did specifically to draw out your disbelief for the record. Thanks! You would not have believed any of the prophets of old just as you do not believe any of the prophets speaking today.

You sure you didn't mean Europe?
When in the 4th quarter of this year? October, November, or December?
So January 1st 2023 we can call this prediction false?

 

[keras]

You sure you didn't mean Europe?
When in the 4th quarter of this year? October, November, or December?
So January 1st 2023 we can call this prediction false?

It is a mistake to make predictions like Acts29 has done.
But; you cannot call them false until their date has passed.

With the Amill belief, I have yet to see any real reason to make the thousand year period mentioned six times in Rev 20, to be anything other that a actual 1000 years.
Your efforts to make it allegorical just don't override the plain Words.

I have yet to see any proof that Satan is bound in the pit now.
There is no historical record of the dramatic events from Revelation 6:12 to the end of the Bible, ever having happened.

The next prophesied event will be the Day the Lord clears and cleanses the Middle East. I have started a new thread on this.

 

[parousia70]

Jesus is the one coming like a thief, so I believe He knows.​

I would agree, however Revelation 3:3 poses a significant hurdle for one who believes Jesus KNOWS the timing of His Thief's coming, yet remains futurist.

If Jesus KNOWS the timing, and KNOWS it's still yet future to us today, then the only conclusion we can reach on Revelation 3:3 was that He was outright lying to the 1st century Sardis Church when Promised His thiefs coming woudl befall them in their day.

 

[eclipsenow]

I would agree, however Revelation 3:3 poses a significant hurdle for one who believes Jesus KNOWS the timing of His Thief's coming, yet remains futurist.

If Jesus KNOWS the timing, and KNOWS it's still yet future to us today, then the only conclusion we can reach on Revelation 3:3 was that He was outright lying to the 1st century Sardis Church when Promised His thiefs coming woudl befall them in their day.

First - where is the timing indicated? You'd probably make a better argument from Chapter 1 or the last Chapter of Revelation, but Chapter 3 doesn't seem to imply timing.

NIV: 3 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Or the ESV: "3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you."

The ESV study notes say:

2:1–3:22 See theological note “The Local Church” on next page. Christ shows care for the churches by addressing each according to its needs, with encouragement, rebuke, exhortation, and promise. He shows detailed knowledge of them (“I know”). In all the letters there are allusions to circumstances or traditions of the particular city, probably including some that are no longer recognized. At the same time, all the churches are included in a universal calling to faithfulness and endurance until the promises reach their fulfillment in the heavenly Jerusalem. Their struggles contrast with the peace and satisfaction pictured in 21:1–22:5. The exhortations are reinforced by an opening allusion to some element of the majestic vision of 1:12–20, and therefore have universal bearing (1:4 note).

Each message has the same basic form:

1. Addressee: “to the angel of the church . . . write.”

2. Identification of Christ, alluding back to His majesty displayed in 1:12–20: “The words of him.”

3. Claim of knowledge: “I know.”

4. Evaluation: rebukes or commendations.

5. Promise or threat: usually “I will.”

6. Promise to “the one who conquers.”

7. Exhortation to listen: “He who has an ear.”

Note that (6) and (7) can occur in reverse order, and (5) can be included with (4).
Rev 2–3 - ESV Reformation Study Bible - Bible Gateway​

While we know that Jesus will return on Judgement Day like a thief, this seems to have the context more of a special visitation - like Jesus evaluating the church and deciding to take action against it. Like Mars Hill collapsing into 11 different churches after Mark Driscoll suddenly ran away because he was too gutless to face the music. That sort of local judgement thing. It could be more in the sense of Revelation 2:5...

"Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent."

Then there is the sense where it is always the day of salvation or judgement - in how people receive or reject the good news. 2 Cor 6:

For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.” I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.​

 

[eclipsenow]

You neither know me, nor have ever known me. However, in the 4th quarter of 2022 after the summer of disasters in America you will. I told you what I did specifically to draw out your disbelief for the record. Thanks! You would not have believed any of the prophets of old just as you do not believe any of the prophets speaking today.

How's this summer of disasters going? Is America still there?

 

[claninja]

How's this summer of disasters going? Is America still there?

Bummer, @Acts29 was “last seen” in February.

 

[eclipsenow]

Bummer, @Acts29 was “last seen” in February.

Ha ha ha - so many futurists just disappear when their timetable fails!