Indigineous

[Malleeboy]

Is it OK to ask what makes someone indigenous in Australia?

Hon Lidia Thorpe only has one out of 16 great-grandparents as being indigenous (and it is possible even that ancestor had some non-indigenous ancestry.)
Ray Martin has again one indigenous great grandparent, but he was specifically included on a panel as an indigenous person.
Jacinta Price has two biological children and one stepchild, does being adopted by an indigenous person make you indigenous?

The native title rules for claiming is the threefold rule of:
1) Indigenous descent (not sure how that is accurately determined in some cases)
2) Identifies as indigenous
3) Is recognized by the indigenous community that are part of

Now this is the highest standard being applied, and in a number of situations a lower standard is being used.
However, there are issues with even this highest standard.

Being of indigenous descent, is not always straight forward to prove/disprove. There is no simple DNA test that can be done for nuclear DNA, as many indigenous people have nonindigenous admixture, and to a lesser extent in the reverse. mtDNA would likely be more reliable but also has challenges. Do we exclude people adopted into communities, and culturally assimilated, some for several generations?

Self recognition seems straight forward but why do people get to decide that x ancestry they identify with but not y ancestry, especially when y is much larger percentage of their ancestry?

Community recognition also has challenges. A prestigious person (eg celebrity or sports person), such as Ray Martin or Ash Barty, is more likely to be recognized by a community than an average person. The amount of mixing in early colonial Australia is probably vastly understated, it is IMHO that many more Ray Martin's are discovery latter in life, that four, five or six generations back they had an indigenous ancestor.

Does the sudden discovery of such an ancestor suddenly move them from being a member of the colonizing oppressors to a victim of colonization?
As Sen Jacinta Price pointed out, is there not also a case for historic oppression in the convict members of early Australian society?

 

[Philip_B]

Hi @Malleeboy, this area is both challenging and complex though it seems implicitly simple. And there are lots of ragged edges. The Tiwi Islanders are not Aboriginal, and they are not Torres Strait Islanders, and they have been there since time before as well. Will they be encompassed by the Voice, or not? The Christmas Islanders have a similar issue.

Between the 2016 Census and the 2021 Census, there was a 25% increase in people identifying as Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander. That increase was not reflected in the 0-5 age category, and I would presume was not related to migration. It will be interesting to see what the 2026 Census shows when it rolls around.

I think we will be a while working this stuff out.

 

[Malleeboy]

I suppose this tweaked my interest as a descendant of colonial Australians, my first ancestor arrived in 1792 and the last of my ancestors arrived in 1857. When they say all non indigenous Australians are immigrants, this jars with me, as my last ancestor arrived over 100 years before I was born, I am 8th generation Australian on both sides of my family.
There is also an set of anomalies with the NSW Birth Death and Marriages, and some family history, that leaves the possibility that I have an Aboriginal ancestor back 6 generations. In my mind, if proven true (my Dad would be an mtDNA descendant, so the evidence could be confirmed) doesn't make me Aboriginal, just someone with the possibility of an Aboriginal ancestor. However that is only 1 generation further back than the Hon Lidia Thorpe or Ray Martin.

 

[Philip_B]

My parents were forced emigrants. I was conceived in England, discovered in India, and born in rural NSW. I know no other home. I am spiritually connected to this place. I am far more interested in being a decent human than I am in 'black sovereign rights' which seem to be a licence to be something I could not say on CF.

 

[Malleeboy]

A life long criminal, bikie gang leader, who was a NZ citizen, Dean Martin was avoided deportation by proving he was aboriginal. It is reported he found a great-grandmother who is reportedly an Tasmanian aboriginal, who married a Maori man, this has been accepted by a Tasmanian aboriginal group. This enough for him to be accorded the aboriginal only inalienable right of abode in Australia, despite any other bad character etc. He was in a relationship with Lidia Thorpe (see above). There are groups who investigate claims of aboriginal ancestry, I will fascinated if it can be confirmed, but it appears that once he had been accepted by an aboriginal group, I have no idea what proof is required.