If I Were an Atheist

[anonymous person]

I don't think you're reading carefully enough: "How they arrived at these false beliefs is not of interest".

Maybe they were inculcated with falseness at their parents' knee. Maybe they learned it from a cult leader. Maybe they read it on a matchbox. The ways to false knowledge are many. None of those accidents matter much. And I have no need of false ways to teach the truth.

So how people arrive at their beliefs is important to you then?

Yes or no?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Art? Who cares? It's going to rot.

Helping the poor and sick? Help them do what, get well? Then they will all die? You might just be prolonging their suffering. Even if you could make them live forever, what have you accomplished? There still is no meaning to their existence.

If life formed by accident then, by definition, there is no purpose. A clock has a purpose. It was created to mark time. If it fails to mark time, it's broken because it fails to serve the purpose of its creator. The one who designed it.

Leave out the designer, and:

“Life ... is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”

How does theism resolve what you consider to be a problem? Would you rather that your purpose be dictated to you?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Sure.

Broadly speaking then...

 

[essentialsaltes]

So how people arrive at their beliefs is important to you then?

Yes or no?

I've made a clear distinction between false beliefs and true beliefs. If you can't handle that, it's your problem.

 

[anonymous person]

I've made a clear distinction between false beliefs and true beliefs. If you can't handle that, it's your problem.

Yes I know you have made a distinction between false beliefs and true beliefs. You have also made it clear that you do not think what I believe is the result of conscious choices I have made.

So how exactly do you propose to help me arrive at true beliefs?

Do you use some sort of such subconscious technique like hypnosis or something?

 

[anonymous person]

Broadly speaking then...

Thanks!

I'm going to watch this and meditate on it and I am sure I will learn much from it. I will let you know what I think.

 

[durangodawood]

....But, a life that is a cosmic accident headed full-speed for a permanent grave is hopeless, not happy, as all actions would lack meaning....

Maybe a life of religious faith DOES hold more meaning, on average, than a life without.
But that doesnt make the claims of the various religions true. And some people just cant fake it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes I know you have made a distinction between false beliefs and true beliefs. You have also made it clear that you do not think what I believe is the result of conscious choices I have made.

So how exactly do you propose to help me arrive at true beliefs?

Do you use some sort of such subconscious technique like hypnosis or something?

If I tell you that Toronto, Canada is south of Minneapolis, and then you check a map, and see that it is so, you do not need to make a conscious choice to believe this. If your mind is functioning properly, and you understand the map, then your mind has no choice but to accept this fact as true.

So, I could use a process known as teaching to introduce you to new facts that you were previously unaware of. A similar method could help you become aware of logical arguments and reasoning that your mind might not have previously considered. When the different pieces of a convincing argument are clearly and distinctly understood by your mind, you are ineluctably led to accept the conclusion, without any conscious choice to believe.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

When I came to CF, I thought that I would have intellectualy stimulating conversations. So far that has been a pipe dream.

I'm tired of thumb-wrestling. I'm looking for big-boy argument.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Life is a cosmic accident.

Yes. So is this.

Its accidental nature does not prevent me from assigning qualities, like beauty -- or experiencing feelings, like wonder -- in relation to this accident.

That galaxy isn't for anything. It doesn't have a designed purpose. And it certainly doesn't have the purpose of making little-old-me feel wonder about it. But that doesn't prevent me from having those feelings, and assigning those qualities to it as a subjective experience.

My life is no different. The accidental nature of my birth, parentage, nationality, etc. really doesn't bear on the question of whether my life matters to me. Of course it does. And that gives it meaning to me.

 

[Lulav]

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[JCFantasy23]

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Due to several issues, staff has agreed by consensus to leave this thread permanently closed.

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