How was Adam’s choice to sin any different from ours?

Aviel

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We often hear that we are able to sin because of our “sin nature” which we inherited from Adam. How was Adam able to sin without already having a “sin nature” and how was his ability to choose sin any different from our own? It seems, biologically, socially, and psychologically Adam was just as human as us.

Adam was created with an amazing advantage that we are not born into, as he had it.

Adam was created in spiritual union with God, and lost it. He threw it away.
We, are born in sin...... conceived in it....., with his fallen nature, and 2nd Adam had to come down here so that we can be given the Gift of SALVATION that restores to us what Adam lost.

So, is that desire to rebel the same in an unbeliever as it was found in Lucifer and in Adam?

Yes.
 
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fhansen

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Adam was created with an amazing advantage that we are not born into, as he had it.

Adam was created in spiritual union with God, and lost it. He threw it away.
We, are born in sin...... conceived in it....., with his fallen nature, and 2nd Adam had to come down here so that we can be given the Gift of SALVATION that restores to us what Adam lost.

So, is that desire to rebel the same in an unbeliever as it was found in Lucifer and in Adam?

Yes.
Yes, and the remnants of that desire also persist in believers, for them to wrestle with. But we have the ammunition now to win that battle.
 
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Aviel

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Yes, and the remnants of that desire also persist in believers, for them to wrestle with. But we have the ammunition now to win that battle.

The more you struggle to resist carnal behavior the more you will do it.
So, the answer is not to strive to try to be good or to try to not commit carnal deeds, as this only causes you to think about them more which leads to doing them..

The way out of it, is to "reckon the old man dead" and come to the complete revelation that once born again, this person is now..

"THE righteousness of God, in Christ"... "made free from sin".... "in Christ".
 
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fhansen

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The more you struggle to resist carnal behavior the more you will do it.
So, the answer is not to strive to try to be good or to try to not commit carnal deeds, as this only causes you to think about them more which leads to doing them..

The way out of it, is to "reckon the old man dead" and come to the complete revelation that once born again, this person is now..

"THE righteousness of God, in Christ"... "made free from sin".... "in Christ".
Being born again has nothing to do with what we resolve to think about ourselves, but about entering sonship with God and acting like it now, by the power of His Spirit. The more we strive to do that, the more we'll overcome the sin that we couldn't overcome before, apart from Him.
 
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Aviel

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Being born again has nothing to do with what we resolve to think about ourselves, but about entering sonship with God and acting like it now, by the power of His Spirit. The more we strive to do that, the more we'll overcome the sin that we couldn't overcome before, apart from Him.

Let me show you what Paul teaches.

Paul teaches this..

"CHRIST... always gives me the VICTORY"... over the world, the flesh, and the devil...


So, the born again are to exist in that Power, .. and that power is not you striving to do it.. Its you existing in it, or as Paul told you..."Christ always GIVES".... the Power..


Now, when you try to do that by EFFORT, then you become this one,

Jesus said.."Apart from me, you can do NOTHING">.

See that?

And to be apart from Jesus, as a born again Christian, is not to be lost and hell bound........it means that your self effort to try to do good, = blocks the power of Christ in you from being your :"Always gives me the Victory".
 
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fhansen

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So, the born again are to exist in that Power, .. and that power is not you striving to do it.. Its you existing in it, or as Paul told you..."Christ always GIVES".... the Power..
I already said that we can't do it apart from Him. And that makes it a partnership, with Him at the helm, He initiating and we responding. Or not. Our part is to make that concerted effort, to strive, to be vigilant, to persevere.

Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Heb 12:14

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Rom 2:7

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Rom 8:12-14

God wants your participation in His work, for your own highest good.
 
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Aviel

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To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. Rom 2:7

The born again already have eternal life.

Being "born again" is the proof.

Being "In Christ" is the proof

Being "one with God" is the proof
 
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fhansen

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The born again already have eternal life.

Being "born again" is the proof.

Being "In Christ" is the proof

Being "one with God" is the proof
Overcoming sin and doing good are proofs, or evidence, that one is one with God. Love of God and neighbor is proof that one is one with God, to put it another way. Anything else is just talk.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Correct, but so did Eve.
but the sin is attributed to Adam, not Eve.
How was Adam's sin different than Eve's? Why is Eve given the promise of the Messiah being her seed, not Adam's seed?

I believe it's because Eve was deceived, but Adam knew the consequences and chose anyway.
Eve knew the consequences as well because she told them to the serpent.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Adam was created with an amazing advantage that we are not born into, as he had it.

Adam was created in spiritual union with God, and lost it. He threw it away.
We, are born in sin...... conceived in it....., with his fallen nature, and 2nd Adam had to come down here so that we can be given the Gift of SALVATION that restores to us what Adam lost.

So, is that desire to rebel the same in an unbeliever as it was found in Lucifer and in Adam?

Yes.
The Bible doesn’t say we are born or conceived in sin, that’s just a misinterpretation of Psalms 51:5. The passage says “in sin my mother conceived me”. The sin was the mother’s, an embryo and a sperm cell can’t sin. Nobody can sin at conception except the parents.
 
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Aviel

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Overcoming sin

Here is how you overcome sin..

A.) You overcome the "world" as its the lust of the eye and the lust of the heart that is tempted by the World and the god of this world is the Devil.

So, how do you "overcome" the world?

""""""For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith.""""""
 
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fhansen

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Here is how you overcome sin..

A.) You overcome the "world" as its the lust of the eye and the lust of the heart that is tempted by the World and the god of this world is the Devil.

So, how do you "overcome" the world?

""""""For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world— our faith.""""""
Jesus warns us that we must remain in Him. From the beginning His Church acknowledged that one can leave Him after coming to know Him. Early fathers attest to this as well, along with Scripture.

Being justified consists of more than forgiveness of sin, but of becoming new creations, with justice, i.e. righteousness, i.e. faith, hope, and, most importantly, love, being given to a new believer. From there he works out his salvation as continues to walk in that justice, investing and growing in it, even, as he embraces and expresses or acts upon those virtues freely given. Or not. He can walk unjustly, returning to the flesh and dying all over again. God does not compel a person to act against his will but rather appeals to, informs, draws, coaxes, and moves us towards Himself without overwhelming us such that we can't refuse, or can't turn back away from Him later.
 
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Jamdoc

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Eve knew the consequences as well because she told them to the serpent.
but the serpent argued against it and Eve believed the serpent.
what I'm saying is Adam believed God not the serpent, Adam didn't have his mind changed. Adam knew he would die and chose die with his wife, rather than live with God without his wife.

That changes the calculus dramatically.
If a person is deceived into believing something false and acts on that belief that it's true, there can be leniency in judgement
Say a person shoots an unarmed person in self defense, that unarmed person was reaching into their pocket. The shooter believes the unarmed person is reaching for a gun, believes their life is in mortal danger and shoots.
That person doesn't get convicted of murder, because it's reasonable for him to have thought that his life was in danger and he shot to protect himself.

Adam in the meantime, knew the person was unarmed and shot anyway, therefore his action was conscious, calculated, and had malice, a judgement call was made.

The text doesn't say but I believe that Eve believed she would not die, and Adam knew he'd die and chose anyway, because he valued Eve more than God.
 
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fhansen

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but the serpent argued against it and Eve believed the serpent.
what I'm saying is Adam believed God not the serpent, Adam didn't have his mind changed. Adam knew he would die and chose die with his wife, rather than live with God without his wife.

That changes the calculus dramatically.
If a person is deceived into believing something false and acts on that belief that it's true, there can be leniency in judgement
Say a person shoots an unarmed person in self defense, that unarmed person was reaching into their pocket. The shooter believes the unarmed person is reaching for a gun, believes their life is in mortal danger and shoots.
That person doesn't get convicted of murder, because it's reasonable for him to have thought that his life was in danger and he shot to protect himself.

Adam in the meantime, knew the person was unarmed and shot anyway, therefore his action was conscious, calculated, and had malice, a judgement call was made.

The text doesn't say but I believe that Eve believed she would not die, and Adam knew he'd die and chose anyway, because he valued Eve more than God.
Personally I don't think.Adam really even knew what death truly meant. It was a lesson to be learned, part of what it means to live in an effectively godless existence, "free" and separated from the Source of life.
 
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Jamdoc

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Personally I don't think.Adam really even knew what death truly meant. It was a lesson to be learned, part of what it means to live in an effectively godless existence, "free" and separated from the Source of life.
If that was the case, why was God to a degree, more lenient on Eve? There was a curse, but also a promise of redemption.
Adam just got cursed. It's Adam's sin not Eve's sin.
I think Adam was aware and made the choice anyway.
it makes a lot more things make sense, like the end of marriage - there won't be a single relationship with any one person that can compete for loyalty to the relationship with God, as there was with Adam.
 
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BNR32FAN

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but the serpent argued against it and Eve believed the serpent.
what I'm saying is Adam believed God not the serpent, Adam didn't have his mind changed. Adam knew he would die and chose die with his wife, rather than live with God without his wife.
Where are you getting this from? The Bible doesn’t tell us anything about why Adam ate the fruit. This is purely imagination.
 
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Jamdoc

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Where are you getting this from? The Bible doesn’t tell us anything about why Adam ate the fruit. This is purely imagination.
it's speculation that fits the facts, the facts being that Adam's punishment was harsher, and Messiah would not come through him but Eve, the sin was laid on Adam not Eve, and God in His wisdom before the fall created marriage, then after the fall, in the New Testament, God is abolishing Marriage, with the language at the beginning of the curse explaining that the punishment was for Adam listening to his wife.
Note that in the passage, Eve does not specifically tell Adam he won't die, nor does Adam confront her about it. She gives it to him, he eats. There was no tricking or deceiving.

Compare the two pronouncements
Genesis 3
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
First, Adam blames his wife, but nothing about her deceiving him, just she gave it to him, and he ate.
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Eve blames the serpent, that she was tricked, that she had been deceived into believing something incorrect.
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
God assigns the most responsibility for Eve eating.. to the serpent. cursing the serpent worse out of the two, and a promise of future redemption to the woman.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
She is still punished as she still did wrong. But with a promise of redemption and vengeance, I would say it is a lighter punishment.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Adam's curse is far more far reaching than either the serpent (the curse was only on himself and other serpents) or Eve (curse on her and other human women, that childbirth will be painful (more so than for other animals)).. the curse on Adam.. cursed the entire planet. Adam is being put to blame for sin and death entering the world, Paul echoes this in Romans 5.
It was Adam's sin, not Eve's sin, even though Eve ate first, the responsibility was heaped on Adam.
the first thing God convicts Adam of is not eating the fruit.
but listening to his wife.

which yes, it is me inferring that Adam valued his wife over God, and that was the true real sin, but it fits the facts, and explains why Adam's responsibility was so much higher.
if Adam was duped, then ultimate blame would all fall on the serpent, not Adam, as blame for Eve eating DID fall on the serpent.
But Adam was held fully accountable to the point that it cursed all creation.
Something far more serious than being duped would suggest.

But if Adam valued Eve more than God? It explains Adam's ultimate responsibility, it explains the end of marriage,
 
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BNR32FAN

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it's speculation that fits the facts, the facts being that Adam's punishment was harsher, and Messiah would not come through him but Eve,
There’s a couple problems with this statement. First Eve came from Adam, second Eve didn’t have any offspring without Adam. All men are descendants of Adam. Mary was a descendant of Adam.
 
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