How do you know if Paul was speaking gods words and not just his opinion?

[Albion]

What evidence do we have that the early church thought the Pauline epistles were divinely inspired?

From the historical record. All the books of the NT were in general and widespread use among the churches, being considered authoritative, long before the councils that get talked about here gathered them into the "canon."

When that did get done, the only books that were in doubt were three or four that are placed at the end of the NT, including (most notably) the Book of Revelation.

 

[RDKirk]

What evidence do we have that the early church thought the Pauline epistles were divinely inspired? And who but men assembled these books rejecting some and accepting others?

They wrote about them. They quoted them in their own doctrinal discussions.

The idea of assembling a "canon" was first developed by Bishop Marcion in the middle of the second century. He had some pretty off-hand theological concepts that justly branded him a heretic. His proposed canon would have discarded the OT entirely as well as gospels such as Matthew that depended heavily on it. However a significant point on which there was absolutely zero debate from anyone in 140 AD was that the canon should include Luke, Acts, and all the Pauline writings.

At that time, the idea of setting a specific canon was not accepted (not rejected, but not accepted). But of all writings, Luke's and Paul's were already beyond question as authoritative for the Church.

 

[Shempster]

Anyone who has truly experienced the true circumcision speaks the word of God. Thats just the way it is.
However, I am not convinced that Paul knew his words would be included in scripture like Moses and the prophets. At one point he says that he really should not boast but he will anyway. Thats quite a human statement and not wrong or sinful but it really does not have the authoritative vibe that the OT has (IMO of course)

 

[RDKirk]

Anyone who has truly experienced the true circumcision speaks the word of God. Thats just the way it is.
However, I am not convinced that Paul knew his words would be included in scripture like Moses and the prophets. At one point he says that he really should not boast but he will anyway. Thats quite a human statement and not wrong or sinful but it really does not have the authoritative vibe that the OT has (IMO of course)

I don't think that Luke expected his work to get beyond Theophilus. I'm not sure anyone in the NT considered himself writing "scripture," but it certainly appears they all understood Holy Spirit inspiration and believed they were so inspired. Paul was aware his letters were being read by multiple congregations (and even instructed it in one case). James, Peter, and John were also clearly aware that their writings moved among multiple congregations.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Anyone who has truly experienced the true circumcision speaks the word of God. Thats just the way it is.
However, I am not convinced that Paul knew his words would be included in scripture like Moses and the prophets. At one point he says that he really should not boast but he will anyway. Thats quite a human statement and not wrong or sinful but it really does not have the authoritative vibe that the OT has (IMO of course)

What is the true circumcision? How does one find the status of one dead for.close to two-thousand years.

 

[Shempster]

What is the true circumcision? How does one find the status of one dead for.close to two-thousand years.

It is the "cutting away" of the old nature...the old self. When one fully sees the bountiful life in the divine love of God and recognize from our past lives that sin always leads to pain and defeat, they will gravitate towards divine love and eventually fully walk in the spirit. It is at this point that all of those wild promises God made become real. This is where HE lives through us.
No more fear. No more anxiety. No more desire to be rich or popular. Going to God FIRST instead of the pastor, doctor, banker and lawyer. No fear of death. No racism or sexism. No sense of being tired of living. One finds joy in giving.
It is at this point that we look at others with true empathy and concern. Even our enemies we feel compassion for.

This is "the way" that the early believers lived and shared. The thing is that you cannot make this a reality in your life by faking it. You can't really hone it down to a formula outside of repentance and renewal. Yeshua does it to us when we are ready.

 

[aieyiamfu]

It is the "cutting away" of the old nature...the old self. When one fully sees the bountiful life in the divine love of God and recognize from our past lives that sin always leads to pain and defeat, they will gravitate towards divine love and eventually fully walk in the spirit. It is at this point that all of those wild promises God made become real. This is where HE lives through us.
No more fear. No more anxiety. No more desire to be rich or popular. Going to God FIRST instead of the pastor, doctor, banker and lawyer. No fear of death. No racism or sexism. No sense of being tired of living. One finds joy in giving.
It is at this point that we look at others with true empathy and concern. Even our enemies we feel compassion for.

This is "the way" that the early believers lived and shared. The thing is that you cannot make this a reality in your life by faking it. You can't really hone it down to a formula outside of repentance and renewal. Yeshua does it to us when we are ready.

Hmmm. So each person can just say they had the special circumcision and then they speak divine truths from there on out. It does sound convienient.

 

[Colter]

I had a chat with a Christian friend and was quoted from Paul's letters to someone (I'm sorry I forgot which particular letter), and I said I can understand why you believe that what Jesus said was from God, but Paul was just a bloke stating an opinion, wasn't he?

My Christian friend said that as it was in the Bible it was the word of God, but I thought that as Paul wrote after Jesus had died and his letters were only selected for use in the Bible by human beings it can't possibly be the word of God.

So if anyone can help with the justification for Pauls letters etc being the word of God I'd be grateful, one person said that Paul had himself stated he was speaking God's words, but lots of people have said that. Is there something we are missing?

Pauls words were his own, he was the first great evangelist of the Christian religion. Paul was sincere and did have a rebirth experience, but he taught a remixed gospel as he understood it, bringing his own personal religious baggage into Christianity. Being so central to carrying the new, post cross gospel to the Gentile world, Pauls subsequent followers made even his simple letters of correspondence into "the word of God."

 

[aieyiamfu]

Pauls words were his own, he was the first great evangelist of the Christian religion. Paul was sincere and did have a rebirth experience, but he taught a remixed gospel as he understood it, bringing his own personal religious baggage into Christianity. Being so central to carrying the new, post cross gospel to the Gentile world, Pauls subsequent followers made even his simple letters of correspondence into "the word of God."

So it is your opinion that Paul's words are not Scripture?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yhwh Breathed His Word as He Desired, As He Planned even Before anything was Created that was Created.
No man accepts this unless it is granted him by the Father in Heaven.

 

[aieyiamfu]

Yhwh Breathed His Word as He Desired, As He Planned even Before anything was Created that was Created.
No man accepts this unless it is granted him by the Father in Heaven.

That basically makes no sense. Maybe bring it down a few notches and use words that make sense.

 

[Colter]

So it is your opinion that Paul's words are not Scripture?

No, it's a fact that the church made Pauls words scripture. After his death Pauls writings were preserved and added to the collection of official writings. The scriptures of all religions evolve in the same way.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians...
Before the world was created, God had Christ choose us to live with him and to
be his holy and innocent and loving people.
---------------------------------------------------
biblehub.com/john/3-27.htm
John replied, "No one can receive anything unless God gives it from heaven. ..
----------------------------------------------------
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-1-20/
... this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. ... For
the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake ....
----------------------------------------------------
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Timothy...17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and
training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be. .
.
==========================
It's really all Scripture ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry if it wasn't clear.

That basically makes no sense. Maybe bring it down a few notches and use words that make sense.

 

[ScottA]

I had a chat with a Christian friend and was quoted from Paul's letters to someone (I'm sorry I forgot which particular letter), and I said I can understand why you believe that what Jesus said was from God, but Paul was just a bloke stating an opinion, wasn't he?

My Christian friend said that as it was in the Bible it was the word of God, but I thought that as Paul wrote after Jesus had died and his letters were only selected for use in the Bible by human beings it can't possibly be the word of God.

So if anyone can help with the justification for Pauls letters etc being the word of God I'd be grateful, one person said that Paul had himself stated he was speaking God's words, but lots of people have said that. Is there something we are missing?

The Bible is not a literary work. The Bible is the written word of men (as inspired by God). It is rather, a record of their witness. On the contrary, God's word - is spirit.

To answer the question then: If one who does not know God reads the words written by Paul, they will only hear from Paul. But if one who knows God reads his words, they hear from God, as it is written: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." John 10:27.

And to answer your question about Jesus vs. Paul, it is also written for the time after Jesus died and rose again: "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:16.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(everyone who rejects Moses, Abraham, Paul, Peter, James, Stephen (Anyone who the Father has called and chosen and sent) has already rejected Jesus the Messiah; just exactly as Jesus said.)

 

[aieyiamfu]

No, it's a fact that the church made Pauls words scripture. After his death Pauls writings were preserved and added to the collection of official writings. The scriptures of all religions evolve in the same way.

Then you assume words not inspired by God can be scripture?

 

[Colter]

Then you assume words not inspired by God can be scripture?

Depends on what you mean by inspired. Satans words are quoted in the Bible books. Who inspired those?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

I had a chat with a Christian friend and was quoted from Paul's letters to someone (I'm sorry I forgot which particular letter), and I said I can understand why you believe that what Jesus said was from God, but Paul was just a bloke stating an opinion, wasn't he?

Why stop with Paul?
How do we know (the author of) Ezekiel or (the author of) Ezra or (the author of) Esther really inspired by God? How about the author of Hebrews (we don't really know who that was.)

My Christian friend said that as it was in the Bible it was the word of God, but I thought that as Paul wrote after Jesus had died and his letters were only selected for use in the Bible by human beings it can't possibly be the word of God.

That doesn't follow. There have been several biographies of President Roosevelt (both of them, pick one), J. Edgar Hoover and Ghengis Kahn, all written after the death of the subject. Does that mean all those biographies are fake?

Inspiration from God comes from the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity. Inspiration does not come from physical interaction with God.

So if anyone can help with the justification for Pauls letters etc being the word of God I'd be grateful, one person said that Paul had himself stated he was speaking God's words, but lots of people have said that. Is there something we are missing?[/QUOTE]As mentioned, Paul's letters were carefully scrutinized prior to being added to the 'accepted' books of the New Testament. To doubt Paul's letters now requires a double vote of no confidence. First, one has to be convinced Paul was not inspired; Two, one has to be convinced the men who did the studying and 'okaying' the books of the Bible were wrong.

 

[CodyFaith]

Whenever I hear of people rejecting the teachings of Paul, I often wonder to myself their reasons for doing so.

Typically, people get rid of things because there is something they don't like about it.

 

[Dave RP]

Why stop with Paul?
How do we know (the author of) Ezekiel or (the author of) Ezra or (the author of) Esther really inspired by God? How about the author of Hebrews (we don't really know who that was.)

That doesn't follow. There have been several biographies of President Roosevelt (both of them, pick one), J. Edgar Hoover and Ghengis Kahn, all written after the death of the subject. Does that mean all those biographies are fake?

Inspiration from God comes from the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity. Inspiration does not come from physical interaction with God.

So if anyone can help with the justification for Pauls letters etc being the word of God I'd be grateful, one person said that Paul had himself stated he was speaking God's words, but lots of people have said that. Is there something we are missing?

As mentioned, Paul's letters were carefully scrutinized prior to being added to the 'accepted' books of the New Testament. To doubt Paul's letters now requires a double vote of no confidence. First, one has to be convinced Paul was not inspired; Two, one has to be convinced the men who did the studying and 'okaying' the books of the Bible were wrong.[/QUOTE]

In the question I was talking about Pauls letters which came after Jesus had died, som I have no idea about the other books you mention.

You talk about biographies, which are written by men/ women after the subject had died, they are truthful in the opinion of the writer and may or may not be historically accurate but they certainly are not the work of god.

As for the inspiration Paul may or may not have had, he himself believed it to be divinely inspired, but so did Joseph Smith (to name but one) when he founded the Mormons having received divine inspiration from an angel. The scrutinizers formed an opinion, that's all. They may have been correct but they may have picked the wrong books/ letters from the sources available, the fact that millions believe does not make something true, otherwise you'd have to accept the Koran as the work of God, it fulfills the same criteria of the author claiming divine inspiration and the receivers accepting it.