Grown Child who refuses to grow up, what can parents do?

[wwjosh19]

My older daughter is 30+. After high school she has no interest in pursuing college, went through many boyfriends and still is. She is living in my ex's rental property to oversee her tenants in exchange for lower rent. Her income is from working in restaurants and serving drinks. The pay is decent, but the job is unstable, environment is not good (2nd hand smoke, bad schedule like late shift ends 3am) and all kinds of difficult customers she must deal with. She uses recreation weed. Upside is that she does keep up with exercises and go to the gym regularly. She has a good heart and very good with people.

I and my ex are running out of idea how to help her to be financially independent, to be mature and take on the responsibilities as an adult to secure a better future as a 30+ adult should. She pays minimum rent (usually late), need close monitoring (and occasional help) with her credit card use. I pay for her health care ). She lives a care free life, no responsibilities, no concerns or planning for the future. Case in point – her car needs maintenance like check tire, brake, oil change. But she will drive until the brake is grinding metal. She had a flat tire again last week. I offered to help her with getting new tires. Yet she still has not made appointment with the auto shop. I am more worried sick about her safety and the next mishap on the road. She does not.

My ex said we are indulging her and need to cut off the help and let her crash to learn. I agree but how far should we let her goes down until she learn – homeless, no health insurance, no car?

I welcome any advice (and prayer) in how to help my child. A friend suggests to contact professional to help her. But I do not even know who to ask, therapist, financial advisers, motivation coach. I think the drive to change must come from her. We are at wit’s end.

(From her perspective, she said she is impacted by our divorce and the trauma of her high school boyfriend who assaulted her. I wish so much I can turn back the clock to do better as a father. Ironically when she was young, I was so occupied with ministries and put it before my family.)

 

[r4.h]

hi josh, i see two things you have shared that need to be put right.
Divorce and neglect through wrong priorities really do affect children even as adults. If you havnt already, tell/show your daughter that you completely failed her, and as dr Phil would say, do everything to allay her fears until she knows you " get it". Another dr Philism is "you ran the car off into the ditch, and you need to get it back out"
I dont mean you pay guilt money by bailing her out, i mean do and say what needs doing and saying until she feels understood and believed.

 

[Soul-searching]

My older daughter is 30+. After high school she has no interest in pursuing college, went through many boyfriends and still is. She is living in my ex's rental property to oversee her tenants in exchange for lower rent. Her income is from working in restaurants and serving drinks. The pay is decent, but the job is unstable, environment is not good (2nd hand smoke, bad schedule like late shift ends 3am) and all kinds of difficult customers she must deal with. She uses recreation weed. Upside is that she does keep up with exercises and go to the gym regularly. She has a good heart and very good with people.

I and my ex are running out of idea how to help her to be financially independent, to be mature and take on the responsibilities as an adult to secure a better future as a 30+ adult should. She pays minimum rent (usually late), need close monitoring (and occasional help) with her credit card use. I pay for her health care ). She lives a care free life, no responsibilities, no concerns or planning for the future. Case in point – her car needs maintenance like check tire, brake, oil change. But she will drive until the brake is grinding metal. She had a flat tire again last week. I offered to help her with getting new tires. Yet she still has not made appointment with the auto shop. I am more worried sick about her safety and the next mishap on the road. She does not.

My ex said we are indulging her and need to cut off the help and let her crash to learn. I agree but how far should we let her goes down until she learn – homeless, no health insurance, no car?

I welcome any advice (and prayer) in how to help my child. A friend suggests to contact professional to help her. But I do not even know who to ask, therapist, financial advisers, motivation coach. I think the drive to change must come from her. We are at wit’s end.

(From her perspective, she said she is impacted by our divorce and the trauma of her high school boyfriend who assaulted her. I wish so much I can turn back the clock to do better as a father. Ironically when she was young, I was so occupied with ministries and put it before my family.)

I´m so sorry, it´s a bad situation, and i feel your frustration and sorrow. I think therapy would be a good idea for all of you, but she has to want this, if she can´t see she has a problem, then there is nothing you can do.

I´m sorry but the excuse that things are rough for her because of the past, that is just an excuse. She is just like an alcoholic, she has never learned to take responsibility for her own actions, and i´m sorry but you don´t help her. You are codependant, and just like an alcoholics family members you make excuses for her.

You can´t keep doing this, you will become sick if things don´t change, you can´t keep taking responsibillity for her, she needs to learn to stand on her own, and she can´t because she knows she can play you, and she does. I understand you feel guilty for not being there when she grew up, but seriously that is not an excuse, that is just an excuse to keep doing her job. She needs to learn to stand on her own.

I think you should have a serious conversation with her, tell her this can´t go on, tell her she needs help, that you all need help, that you all need to go to family therapy. I´m sorry but it´s often when we crawl on our knees that we learn, often we have to get so far out, but it is what is needed for some people.

I know that this hurts, i know i might hurt your feelings and i´m so sorry, there is no easy way out of this,i know that this will bite and hurt, and be very difficult, but it´s the only way to move on, so you both can have a normal relationship in the future. You need to do what is best for her, and that is to teach her how to take responsibility for her own life, right now she does not need to do anything and that will never help her and it has never helped her, she is very lucky she has a dad like you!! I hope and pray everything turns out for the best!

 

[salt-n-light]

My older daughter is 30+. After high school she has no interest in pursuing college, went through many boyfriends and still is. She is living in my ex's rental property to oversee her tenants in exchange for lower rent. Her income is from working in restaurants and serving drinks. The pay is decent, but the job is unstable, environment is not good (2nd hand smoke, bad schedule like late shift ends 3am) and all kinds of difficult customers she must deal with. She uses recreation weed. Upside is that she does keep up with exercises and go to the gym regularly. She has a good heart and very good with people.

I and my ex are running out of idea how to help her to be financially independent, to be mature and take on the responsibilities as an adult to secure a better future as a 30+ adult should. She pays minimum rent (usually late), need close monitoring (and occasional help) with her credit card use. I pay for her health care ). She lives a care free life, no responsibilities, no concerns or planning for the future. Case in point – her car needs maintenance like check tire, brake, oil change. But she will drive until the brake is grinding metal. She had a flat tire again last week. I offered to help her with getting new tires. Yet she still has not made appointment with the auto shop. I am more worried sick about her safety and the next mishap on the road. She does not.

My ex said we are indulging her and need to cut off the help and let her crash to learn. I agree but how far should we let her goes down until she learn – homeless, no health insurance, no car?

I welcome any advice (and prayer) in how to help my child. A friend suggests to contact professional to help her. But I do not even know who to ask, therapist, financial advisers, motivation coach. I think the drive to change must come from her. We are at wit’s end.

(From her perspective, she said she is impacted by our divorce and the trauma of her high school boyfriend who assaulted her. I wish so much I can turn back the clock to do better as a father. Ironically when she was young, I was so occupied with ministries and put it before my family.)

So two tactics: one concerning her soul and the other is more practical

So spiritually she is traumatize, take that serious, you need to pray with her and help her navigate her feelings with the Word. A biblical counselor should be helpful. You can't turn back the clock, but you can provide an environment where she can grow spiritually.

How is her prayer life? Is she a Christian? This, if addressed, will affect all the other areas of her life. Maybe point her to a community of believers that can mentor her? Does she have healthy friendships? These things are important to help her heal.

So now the moral stuff:

Lay down some rules. You have to treat her more of an adult, and less of a child.

Have a sit-down. And talk about the things that are allowed and not allowed. If she doesn't agree to them, then give her the ultimatum to leave/evict. Also, put more responsibilities on her, she have a job, let her pay for the credit card and health insurance. Let her worry about the car appointment, you can remind her of her responsibilities, but don't pick it up for her.She will figure out how to wisely spend her time and money.

You can also point her to resources to help her, that's not you such as a financial advisor, coach, therapist.But again, shes mature enough to sort things out for herself.

At the end of the day, you love her, and you seem much potential that she is wasting away. Although she is traumatize, and I understand your concern about it,she either has no courage or no care to actually put those steps forward, as long as you are her crutch;crutch time over.You already nutured her into adulthood, let her learn to apply what she's taught into life. That's not saying to ignore her, but your role has to change, you are now a guide not primary caregiver.

My sister went through something similar, her husband passes away in their home and she wasn't working he was the bread winner at the time. She was doing schooling so my parents took her in, she was 33 at the time, shes now 38 still living at home.But she was putting in the work while healing, my parents helped at first, but slowly gave her more responsibilites, until now she has a good job, her own car, and pays for rent. If my sister can work through trauma with God by her side, I dont see why it can't happen for your daughter.

God although a loving God, does not put himself as a crutch. God's love is convenant based and have conditions. If we do our part, He will do His, if not these are the consequences, here's the Holy Spirit and the Word to guide you, and then we deal with life day by day. Same here, its tough love, but its needed for the sake of her and yourself as well.

 

[r4.h]

I´m so sorry, it´s a bad situation, and i feel your frustration and sorrow. I think therapy would be a good idea for all of you, but she has to want this, if she can´t see she has a problem, then there is nothing you can do.

I´m sorry but the excuse that things are rough for her because of the past, that is just an excuse. She is just like an alcoholic, she has never learned to take responsibility for her own actions, and i´m sorry but you don´t help her. You are codependant, and just like an alcoholics family members you make excuses for her.

You can´t keep doing this, you will become sick if things don´t change, you can´t keep taking responsibillity for her, she needs to learn to stand on her own, and she can´t because she knows she can play you, and she does. I understand you feel guilty for not being there when she grew up, but seriously that is not an excuse, that is just an excuse to keep doing her job. She needs to learn to stand on her own.

I think you should have a serious conversation with her, tell her this can´t go on, tell her she needs help, that you all need help, that you all need to go to family therapy. I´m sorry but it´s often when we crawl on our knees that we learn, often we have to get so far out, but it is what is needed for some people.

I know that this hurts, i know i might hurt your feelings and i´m so sorry, there is no easy way out of this,i know that this will bite and hurt, and be very difficult, but it´s the only way to move on, so you both can have a normal relationship in the future. You need to do what is best for her, and that is to teach her how to take responsibility for her own life, right now she does not need to do anything and that will never help her and it has never helped her, she is very lucky she has a dad like you!! I hope and pray everything turns out for the best!

If the past does not affect the future, why then does God require repentance in the form of actions?
Saying sorry is not enough. You sound like someone who has suffered abuse and been convinced to "just get over it". Jesus has told us "if our brother repents" then we have won him back. This means if he refuses to admit fault, he is hardened and unwilling/unable to love us as he aught. Sorry but i think your very wrong in your prescription.

 

[wwjosh19]

Good morning everyone and thank you for all the input, I am glad to have posted the thread as I thought it is too personal to share my child's problem.

She is not a believer, neither is my ex, nor my younger daughter. I have many long talk with her to talk about the past and plainly admitted that I could have done better to spend time with her and be more caring. About the incident of her boyfriend, I did not know about it until several years ago when she told me about it. Her anger, as she told me, was the response from her Mom who essentially told her to move on. She is seeing a therapist/psychologist right now for many years. I think she is using this as a crutch. She explained how much better she feels after the sessions. I believe these are expensive and may be a reason she is tight with money. I can not tell her to schedule less sessions but may be to suggest to need to rely more on her own.

My ex is more assertive in taking the tough love stance of letting her learn life the hard way. I am the weak one. The idea of her getting stuck on the road with a broken vehicle is too much for me. I probably will just call the auto shop today to inquire if she already made the arrangement to order the tires. And will continue to pay her health insurance. She had several health issues (breathing) I think is work related.

We are actually see each other more now. We meet up for lunch about once a month. Conversation is usually casual because she does not want to talk about heavy subject. My ex is having a more difficult time talking to her because she knows what she want to talk about and avoid it.

One blessing I am grateful is my younger girl who will soon graduate from college. She is a lot different in personality than the older one. Maybe the 1st child we are learning to be parents and the 2nd child benefited from our mistakes. She and the older one talk often. We both encourage her to do better for her life. I come to feel none of these encouragement will help her. It is as if the only way thing change is for something drastic happen for her to wake up. I just do not know what that is.

 

[Soul-searching]

If the past does not affect the future, why then does God require repentance in the form of actions?
Saying sorry is not enough. You sound like someone who has suffered abuse and been convinced to "just get over it". Jesus has told us "if our brother repents" then we have won him back. This means if he refuses to admit fault, he is hardened and unwilling/unable to love us as he aught. Sorry but i think your very wrong in your prescription.

I´m sorry! of course the past affects the future, and i understand that this woman might have issues that is not her fault, i do understand! But it seems to me that she does not know how to take responsibillity for her life, nor does she need to, and that she uses the past as an excuse to not get anywhere. Yes, maybe her past makes things difficult for her, but then she needs help, she should want this for herself if she wanted to change, that is why i say she does not want to change. She should want to become a better version of herself, we all seek for that, or so we ought to. Real help, getting her to know herself, why she is like she is, why she reacts like she does. It seems to me that she does not want to be better.

I´m sorry, but i think it was a different thing if the woman was in her start 20´s, then she might have an excuse, but she is in her 30´s, i´m sorry, but to me that is a sign of lack of maturity and of course she has a lack of maturity why would she not?? she has been taken care of her whole life, how will she learn to stand on her own two feet and take things serious?? I know how hard things can hurt, and how much it can affect us, but there is people in the world who have suffered worse things than that and can still function, so just to say that bad experiences affects us and then we can be crippled all our lives and do as we please,just because we have experienced something bad, i don´t think that is good enough.

Of course we should be there for them, and guide them, and show them support and love, but if they don´t take a first step, then i don´t see it ever improving, how much support and care can you give if the other part does not give anything back?? I´m sorry, but sometimes it does not help to hold peoples hands,we don´t do them any favors, it just makes it worse, you can hold peoples hands to a certain point, but then they have to start giving something back, little by little. That is why i said councelling would be a good idea for them.You can look at it how ever you want, but this father has given his daugher everything, love, support, money, taking care of her in every way, and it has not helped, what more can there be done?, maybe it´s time to take the spoon in the other hand.

 

[r4.h]

I´m sorry! of course the past affects the future, and i understand that this woman might have issues that is not her fault, i do understand! But it seems to me that she does not know how to take responsibillity for her life, nor does she need to, and that she uses the past as an excuse to not get anywhere. Yes, maybe her past makes things difficult for her, but then she needs help, she should want this for herself if she wanted to change, that is why i say she does not want to change. She should want to become a better version of herself, we all seek for that, or so we ought to. Real help, getting her to know herself, why she is like she is, why she reacts like she does. It seems to me that she does not want to be better.

I´m sorry, but i think it was a different thing if the woman was in her start 20´s, then she might have an excuse, but she is in her 30´s, i´m sorry, but to me that is a sign of lack of maturity and of course she has a lack of maturity why would she not?? she has been taken care of her whole life, how will she learn to stand on her own two feet and take things serious?? I know how hard things can hurt, and how much it can affect us, but there is people in the world who have suffered worse things than that and can still function, so just to say that bad experiences affects us and then we can be crippled all our lives and do as we please,just because we have experienced something bad, i don´t think that is good enough.

Of course we should be there for them, and guide them, and show them support and love, but if they don´t take a first step, then i don´t see it ever improving, how much support and care can you give if the other part does not give anything back?? I´m sorry, but sometimes it does not help to hold peoples hands,we don´t do them any favors, it just makes it worse, you can hold peoples hands to a certain point, but then they have to start giving something back, little by little. That is why i said councelling would be a good idea for them.You can look at it how ever you want, but this father has given his daugher everything, love, support, money, taking care of her in every way, and it has not helped, what more can there be done?, maybe it´s time to take the spoon in the other hand.

Hi, while i agree with much you have said. How are you so sure the father has given her what she really needed. I dont mean she has no hand in changing her life and getting past hurts and offences.
But hurting people hurt others, and on goes the cycle until people admit to each other where they failed and ask what they can do so the other one feels heard and understood, not just fobbed off or the problem deflected. Even worse put back onto the one who is hurting.

 

[Soul-searching]

Hi, while i agree with much you have said. How are you so sure the father has given her what she really needed. I dont mean she has no hand in changing her life and getting past hurts and offences.
But hurting people hurt others, and on goes the cycle until people admit to each other where they failed and ask what they can do so the other one feels heard and understood, not just fobbed off or the problem deflected. Even worse put back onto the one who is hurting.

I am not sure, i´m sorry if i am wrong!!! I understand what you say and i agree, i just think the normal reaction of bad things happening to us would be depression, anxiety or some mental illness if things are really, really, really rough, and then we talk about extremes, i have a hard time connecting the flat tire, and not doing anything about it, and simply not carring about anything, just pretending it is not there. I think even people with depression would change a flat tire, maybe there are more underlying issues, maybe we don´t know the whole truth, but that behavior is not normal in a woman in her 30´s, she seems like a child and totally disconnected to reality, and then i only see two reasons, overprotection or mental illness.It seems to me that the dad is a sweet guy, who cares about her daughter, and to me it seems like he has given her every oportunity to learn to take control of her life. I know that when we face difficulties it takes time to get past, but this is serious and not normal. I don´t even think that it would help if the dad had the forgive me, and i hear you conversation, because i bet he has. This seems like a much harder case than that, if it´s not about her not taking control of her own life, then something else more serious.

 

[Bass4Jesus]

Sorry in advance if someone's already brought up these points.

Josh, no offense intended, and I mean that, but you're what's known as an "enabler." And your daughter instinctively knows how to leverage that fact, so we'll label her a "user." This is a classic case of co-dependency. You feel guilty because you feel you could've done better as a dad, so financial gifts soothe your soul. She hasn't learned to stand on her own because your constant giving has put permanent training wheels under her; in fact they've become integral to a normal life for her. On her part -- consciously or subconsciously -- maybe she's running a guilt trip on you for having broken up with your wife and/or not having been around much, and she's found (shocker) that this imposed guilt actually makes money for her.

What I'd do is explain to her that your (and your ex's) retirements are at financial risk unless you start saving as much as you can. The financial assistance will be monthly for a year and no longer than that: a lump sum each month, and it's going to steadily decrease during that year. Q1: $300 each month. Q2: $200 each month. Q3: $100 each month. Q4: $50 each month. (Those were just examples; pick whatever numbers work for you.) Stop paying specific bills -- let her do the money management.

That should ease her into the notion that she's got to begin managing her own money (and that car maintenance has to come before weed, amen?).

Hth, and good luck!

 

[wwjosh19]

I don´t even think that it would help if the dad had the forgive me, and i hear you conversation, because i bet he has. This seems like a much harder case than that, if it´s not about her not taking control of her own life, then something else more serious.

All parents made mistakes - mistakes out of good intention for their kids. I always look back and try to understand where we did wrong. May be it is high expectation and pressure for her to excel like taking piano lessons. Personally I think it is for extra curriculum activities to broaden her experience. My ex took it to the extreme. It pains me to recall incidents when she was tired at the end of the day, she did not practice enough time (piano teacher said at least 1 hour practice every day), she was crying and beg her mom to allow her to let her go to bed. My ex asked her to stay on to complete the practice. I see my tumultuous relationship with my ex greatly impacted the kids. When parents are not in good terms and argue frequently in front of the kids, it impacted them. I did tell my two daughters often where I fell short. I think we all moved beyond that.

Once the kids are adult, parents' influence on them greatly diminishes. We do not even see them that much anymore. Most often the only times we hear from them is when they are in trouble or need help.
Looking the glass 1/2 full, I am just grateful my older child is just not motivated, too content with where she is and have no care of the future or care of the daily mundane adult business of taking care of bills. It can get a whole lot worst like news we read daily on strayed kids. I do not know what need to happen to shake her into taking life more seriously. But now until I die, I can only continue to love her, and be with her when things are bad. Changes can only start from within her. (A bit of sunshine is that in May my ex, my older child will all drive up for my younger girl's college graduation. I do not understand why 2 kids from the same parents are so different.)

 

[rubyinprogress]

My older daughter is 30+. After high school she has no interest in pursuing college, went through many boyfriends and still is. She is living in my ex's rental property to oversee her tenants in exchange for lower rent. Her income is from working in restaurants and serving drinks. The pay is decent, but the job is unstable, environment is not good (2nd hand smoke, bad schedule like late shift ends 3am) and all kinds of difficult customers she must deal with. She uses recreation weed. Upside is that she does keep up with exercises and go to the gym regularly. She has a good heart and very good with people.

I and my ex are running out of idea how to help her to be financially independent, to be mature and take on the responsibilities as an adult to secure a better future as a 30+ adult should. She pays minimum rent (usually late), need close monitoring (and occasional help) with her credit card use. I pay for her health care ). She lives a care free life, no responsibilities, no concerns or planning for the future. Case in point – her car needs maintenance like check tire, brake, oil change. But she will drive until the brake is grinding metal. She had a flat tire again last week. I offered to help her with getting new tires. Yet she still has not made appointment with the auto shop. I am more worried sick about her safety and the next mishap on the road. She does not.

My ex said we are indulging her and need to cut off the help and let her crash to learn. I agree but how far should we let her goes down until she learn – homeless, no health insurance, no car?

I welcome any advice (and prayer) in how to help my child. A friend suggests to contact professional to help her. But I do not even know who to ask, therapist, financial advisers, motivation coach. I think the drive to change must come from her. We are at wit’s end.

(From her perspective, she said she is impacted by our divorce and the trauma of her high school boyfriend who assaulted her. I wish so much I can turn back the clock to do better as a father. Ironically when she was young, I was so occupied with ministries and put it before my family.)

The book "Boundaries" by Townsend and Cloud has a similar story. The advice they gave the parents was to "give him some problems". It sounds like whenever she is in a bind you "fix" it for her...late rent, credit card, health insurance. Now it would be highly unfair to tell her she has to have health insurance tomorrow, but talk to your ex about shifting the responsibilities to her. Agree on the boundaries with your ex and a timeline for your expectations and then have a loving conversation that includes "we believe in you that you can take care of these things yourself" so from now on we are...whatever you decide (not going to accept late rent from you any more than we would from other tenants, or not going to help with your credit cards, or expect you to pay X amount toward your health insurance and then a schedule for how her share will increase over time until she is paying it all herself (or finds a job that offers insurance). I would encourage you to read "Boundaries" because it will help with the WHY and the Biblical reasons for doing the things I mentioned.

 

[rubyinprogress]

Also if she is going to a therapist for years it might be that EMDR would help. It is a specialized treatment for trauma (like being assaulted). It works faster than traditional "talk" therapy. You can find an EMDR trained counselor at the EMDRIA (EMDR International Association). EMDR International Association

 

[wwjosh19]

Josh, no offense intended, and I mean that, but you're what's known as an "enabler." And your daughter instinctively knows how to leverage that fact, so we'll label her a "user." This is a classic case of co-dependency. You feel guilty because you feel you could've done better as a dad, so financial gifts soothe your soul

That is very true what you said. I fully recognize that. But it is more than soothing my soul but part out of genuine worry and concern of her well being and her future. 2 lifelines I do not want to cut off are: health insurance and helping her with her car maintenance (finally this week she brought her car in to have 4 new tires, new rear brake and oil change, after weeks of procrastinating, I asked her how much she came short and I helped her out). As I try to understand myself and my relationship with my older daughter, other factor may be trying to equalize the resources I spent with the younger daughter, with 5 years college that caused I and my ex nearly $250K (private college is criminally expensive). Older one chose not to go to college, so my reasoning is it is OK to help her financially, in comparison to the expense for the younger daughter, it is so miniscule. Of course, this is not the right way to teach her to be independent. She will continue to be carefree until "something" shake her up. She told me the other day she will pursue a career as a nurse. I felt bad for not being more supportive, as she has told us so many times what she want to pursue but always come up short. Never give up hope on your child. I will just have to encourage her.

1st child seems always somewhat experimental, either over indulgence or push the kid to be over achiever. 2nd child will come out better as she learned from the 1st child experience. My younger child will graduate from college on May 4, we will all drive up together to her graduation. Both kids come from the same parents but their personality can not be more different.

EMDR is interesting. I will look into it. My daughter said she feels good by talking to the psychologist (4 times a month and I am sure it drain her financially). One time I merely suggested her to cut don the frequency and do not use it as a crutch. Her response was " Dad, why do you want me to cut down on mental health". Most conversations seem to go round and round, not going anywhere. Years come and go, as if we are stuck.

 

[dayhiker]

Hi Josh,
Thanks for coming back and updating us.
I've not commented before because I have no personal experience with this. I do have a GF who has a son with Borderline Personality Disorder. I've watched her struggle with this issue of how much to help him. She has got advice of cut him off and let him fail, then he will figure it out. Her counselor and I feel that approach can be devastating to him and not healing. I have supported her in what she does do and if asked, I say do what a loving mother would do for a healthy child and no more. Also to choose the help wisely. Don't solve every problem for him as she started out to do. Pick the ones that really help him and don't do any of his wish list. So assist with food and housing and to the Doctors. Seem to me to be on that list. Games, luxury items, last minutes needs that he knew conflicted with her other commitments like her work don't do.
But again, that's watching my GF .. not from personal experience.

 

[wwjosh19]

I've watched her struggle with this issue of how much to help him. She has got advice of cut him off and let him fail, then he will figure it out. Her counselor and I feel that approach can be devastating to him and not healing. I have supported her in what she does do and if asked, I say do what a loving mother would do for a healthy child and no more. Also to choose the help wisely. Don't solve every problem for him as she started out to do. Pick the ones that really help him and don't do any of his wish list.

That is the dilemma I and my ex are facing. How far will you cut off your kid, how fall will we allow her to fall before you turn around. My ex is more assertive and determined to cut her off everything including kick her out of her rental property whey she lives in. I felt bad, as simple as I helped her paying for part of the recent car repair, I did not fully tell my ex, fearing that she will blame me for being weak and sabotage my ex's " tough love" approach. As of now, support on health care/car care/education (if she so choose to go back to College) are my only commitments to my daughter. We had lunch yesterday. She shared again about going to nursing school. She and another restaurant worker will check out the local college to see how to finish the AA degree then apply for state nursing school (much cheaper). I do not want to throw cold water on her on how challenging and competitive this career field is, at her 30+ age to engage in a very demanding career. I am just happy she has the desire to pursue such lofty career. I told her, the day she finish nursing school will the happiest day in my life. I wish it will come true ( so many times she said she will study this or that, but more word than deeds).

On a personal selfish level, I also think about I being 63, near retirement and not best of health, and now if she goes for College, that will be a financial challenge for me as for nursing program, she will pretty much a full time student again. Should I pay a penalty for the kid's delay life plan? My brain said no, but my heart say yes. I will do anything to see her successful. A parent will always forgive and love their kid 1000 times over.

I deeply appreciate for everyone's advise, prayer and care. (I was hoping to find the long introduction/bio that I posted, I think it was in the " introduce yourself thread", when I first joined the forum couple months ago, but can not find it. This may shred more light why I am where I am, not just my relationship with my family but my spiritual life). In short, I accepted Christ through a campus group in 1975 and after 40 years of roller coaster ride of spiritual and life events, I walked away from God in 2011. I self exiled from the Christian community. This forum is the only real spiritual conversation I have for a long time. I searched far and wide for people who walk off their faith and find peace. Most transition pretty readily as atheists. I can never do that. God is as real to me and as powerful to me as the 1st day I accepted him. But I just can not quite reconcile what I experience in life with the loving and "father knows best for his children" part of the Bible. I choose Psalm 144:1 as my avatar scripture as I believe our experience, no matter how strange and difficult, is God way to prepare us for tough assignments ahead.

I wish you all a wonderful April 10 2018. Another beautiful day to be alive. A song I am just listening and one of my favorite 1960s oldies. Those were the days by Mary Hopkins.... when we were once young

 

[dayhiker]

Josh .... did you ever read the book "The Shack?" You can listen to the whole book on youtube. The author is Paul Young. Also you tube videos of him speaking on youtube.

 

[blackribbon]

If you truly love your daughter, you will help her become an independent adult who doesn't need help from "mommy and daddy" or else she might not be able to make it when you and your ex no longer are in a position to help her out. The only exception is if you think she is lacking in the ability to be independent and actually does need assistance which means you need to be coming up with a plan to provide it in a controlled environment even after you are gone.

If she is capable, then I'd come up with a plan to ween her off your support like "you have 6 months to be completely independent from rent support"...that gives her enough time to find a more affordable place if she can't afford her current one. And give her date expectation for everything else. Being a dependent child at 30 doesn't allow a person to feel the satisfaction of learning how to be independent and let your relationship grow into one of friendship and not parent/child.

I'd have no problem assisting an adult child to go to school, but draw the lines into "how long", what you are willing to assist with, and what you expect out of her to earn the privilege of your assistance as an adult child (for example that she get decent grades and doesn't randomly drop classes that have to be paid for again in order to graduate). Nursing school is one of the most difficult programs and requires a lot of dedication. I literally studied 8 hours a day on every day I wasn't in clinicals (clinicals were 8 hours long).

 

[wwjosh19]

If you truly love your daughter, you will help her become an independent adult who doesn't need help from "mommy and daddy" or else she might not be able to make it when you and your ex no longer are in a position to help her out.

This is pretty much in our mind (I and my ex) all the time. We are both not in the best of our health. The day will come when we are no longer around. We do not want to give her fish but help her to be a fish man to be on her own. It is easier to say then done. The living arrangement she has with her Mom is not good. Supposedly, in return of lower rent, she will maintain the rental property, manage the tenants and she get 2 adjoining rooms with her own bathroom. My EX complained she is way behind in rent. She has money to buy things but never have enough to pay her back. As long as she has shelter over her head, food in the frig, car to drive. Why change ? In our heads, we know what to do to make her work for her living, just hard to execute. We kept drawing timeline on the sand but it keeps moving.

Other challenge for me is how to work with my ex as well (not just now, but pretty much since we married). This in itself is the cause of the kids' problem and the family is where it is. I am more laid back and my ex is a super achiever. We are so different in raising kids. Fights were over how long the kid need to practice piano, how many extracurricular activities she needed to have, how many real estate she need to invest in or if cosmopolitan magazine was appropriate when she was only in upper middle school (I said it was not, she said OK). Add to the fact she is not a believer, we are not raising both girls in a Biblical way. All factors added up. Fight in front of the kids is one of the worst thing a parents should do. I try not to look back, that depress me and fill me with regrets. we all have 20 20 hindsight. Can only learn and look forward.

As of now, my commitment is paying for health insurance, occasional car care support and education. As it encompass safety, her health (not good lots due to work environment in food industry, 2nd hand smoke etc) and education.

I know in my heart her desire (if it is genuine and not just brushing us off) in nursing is a long long shot at best. It is a very tough field that require strong science academic, attitude, aptitude and diligence to succeed. Right off the bat, her late start at 30+ put her behind already. I will be very happy if she gets a AA degree and that to me is a major milestone.

 

[blackribbon]

No one hires a nurse (or healthcare worker) who smokes anymore. We are drug tested for nicotine. Late start has nothing to do with it, I got my nursing degree at 48 but I also had already gotten a degree in engineering post high school.

However, the problem doesn't sound like the problem you have is with your daughter but rather your inability to stand behind the agreements you have with your daughter. You are no longer "raising" her (or at least you shouldn't be). As for the rent, treat her like you would any other renter who doesn't pay rent...send her a legal notice setting a deadline and live by it. If she is competent, she will figure out how to make it like the rest of us...with the option of fulfilling her end of the agreement or moving out. And who is going to pay for her health insurance and car repairs after you go if she doesn't learn how to do it now when in a pinch you can help her out. You are enabling her to live as a child and not an independent adult. Plenty of other 30 year olds do this on their own. She doesn't because she doesn't have to.