Francisco Franco was a GREAT Man

[scud]

anyone heared of the biblecode?
what they do is like do a search and like every 11th letter they pick out and they make words etc..

and the bible code talks about hitler iraq saddam hussein etc. it is rather interesting, you can get the bible code software at this website, and they also have magnetic rings that are supposed to increase your vitality.
here is the link anyway

http://www.alexchiu.com/affiliates/clickthru.cgi?id=scallchad

 

[KnightOfTheRoundTable]

Injured Soldier, the soviet plans for World Domination are well documented now as they have been found in KGB archives in Moscow.
The Basques are seperatists and Franco had to deal with them in order to keep peace and order with Spain. A lot of Basques are still proud patriotic Spaniards.
Yes its true that the Soviets did create a crime free and Drug free society ill give you that but if you tried to leave you were shot!
In Francos Spain you could come and go as you please and as I stated earlier more spaniards came back to Spain than left Spain!
You cant say the same for the Soviet Union with the barbed wire fences and armed soldiers ready to kill if you tried to leave!

And lastly Mussolini did invent Fascism as he coined the term Fascism from the Italian word fasceo. Also he wrote the Doctrine of Fascism.

 

[Injured Soldier]

Injured Soldier, the soviet plans for World Domination are well documented now as they have been found in KGB archives in Moscow.

Only if you believe Suvorov. I'm not saying Stalin didn't have designs on Europe, but if there were plans (the archives show a lot of things, but the claim they show plans for World Domination is going too far), they were little more than to throw of German and Western spies into thinking the Soviet Union was more of a threat that it really was.

And lastly Mussolini did invent Fascism as he coined the term Fascism from the Italian word fasceo. Also he wrote the Doctrine of Fascism.

Mussolini says that, Mussolini said a lot of things. He was an egotistical jerk in reality. He stole the synthesis of Sorel and Maurras work, he used the word fascio even though many Italian parties wanting unity in the 19th century also used that word. The Sicilians in 1893-1894 used that word too. Just giving an idea that is not yours a name that is in common use does not make you the inventor of something.

I hate the USSR as much as anyone, but I think any political party who tries to create a crime free society is wrong. Including Franco's various groups. The fact he pretended to be a great Catholic and pretended all this economic growth was his doing and no one else could have done it should make you angry, not admiring of the man.

 

[MatthewG215]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times:

If you want to have peace you have to bomb.

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

I don't know enough to comment whether he was great or not, but the fact that he was not a democratic leader should not taint our picture of him. Before democracy can come about in a country, there must first be established enough order and predictability into that society, lest the great freedom that only a democracy can give unleashes anarchy and chaos upon the populace. Only when sufficient stability is established can a democracy flourish.

Perhaps the way to judge the relative greatness of Franco would be to apply the same question about his reign as has put forth about that of Pinochet of Chile. The fact that Chile has become a better nation after Pinochet's reign is beyond dispute. However, because the force and the treachery of Pinochet against his own population far exceeded the need for a strong hand, Pinochet will never enter the history books as a Chilean hero.

Strength and force are necessary components of good government. Armed Marxist insurrectionists, and the forces of anarchy must be forcefully opposed. A leader's greatness, however, is contingent on his ability to use no more force than is necessary to permit the establishment of civil society.

But there was democracy in Spain before Franco - the legitimate Rpublic of Spain. It was Franco and several other generals who were monarchists, falangists, etc, who were the armed insurectionaries against this stable society and who created the 'anarchy'. At the time of the Civil War, the Societ backed communist party of Spain did not have much support, its membership was about 50,000 (which was about the same as the peak membership of the Communist Party of Great Britain). It was the democratic socialist party and the libertarian party, both of which were very opposed to Stalinism, that had most support, with memberships of both exceeding one million. (Source - The Spanish Civil War by Anthony Beever).

 

[SolomonVII]

xxxx

 

[jgarden]

Hi Everyone!
Franco was a credit to Spain and Christianity. He was a firm dictator but certainly not an evil one. People of Spain allways had a job for life and their were never any redundacies. Franco was the one who made the decision to open up Spain to the Tourist industry thereby creating a strong economy with money constantly coming into Spain. Under Francos regime you could leave your doors unlocked in the day and at night and no-one would break in. Spain was virtually crime and drug free and was therefore a much better place to bring up children than todays Spain.
Does anyone agree with me?

Franco led a military junta that overthrew an elected government. He may have "disliked" Hitler, but not enough to stop the German stukas from perfecting their dive bombing techniques on defenseless Spanish civilians. Franco conducted a brutal civil war at the bequest of the conservatives and the Church. It took Spain decades to recover from his tyranny.

 

[MatthewG215]

I think this thread is supposed to be a joke.

 

[KnightOfTheRoundTable]

I think this thread is supposed to be a joke.

No this thread isnt a joke just my opinion of the man thats all! Of course im allowed to have an opinion that is different to someone elses! Hopefully

 

[SolomonVII]

xxxx

 

[KnightOfTheRoundTable]

Ok guys, some things that we should all admire about Franco.

1) He restored Traditional Values
2) He went to daily Communion
3) He expelled Communism from Spain
4) He dealt with Basque Terrorists
5) Homosexuals were arrested
6) Tranvesties were Arrested
7) Criminals were Arrested and were Appropriately Punished
8) Death penalty For Murderers
9) Non Vulgar media
10) Healthy sexuality was promoted
Wouldnt we as Christians want especially from number 5 Onwards to be positive things that we could have now in our wonderful Democratic countries?

 

[oldrooster]

Ok guys, some things that we should all admire about Franco.

1) He restored Traditional Values
2) He went to daily Communion
3) He expelled Communism from Spain
4) He dealt with Basque Terrorists
5) Homosexuals were arrested
6) Tranvesties were Arrested
7) Criminals were Arrested and were Appropriately Punished
8) Death penalty For Murderers
9) Non Vulgar media
10) Healthy sexuality was promoted
Wouldnt we as Christians want especially from number 5 Onwards to be positive things that we could have now in our wonderful Democratic countries?

Are you about 12 ? If you read the history of the Third Reich, these are the same values that Hitler promoted. Seig Heil.

 

[KnightOfTheRoundTable]

Are you about 12 ? If you read the history of the Third Reich, these are the same values that Hitler promoted. Seig Heil.

Duh! They are not the same values as Hitler! Hitler promoted Racial purity but Franco didnt. Franco couldnt care less.

Anyway I was trying to say from a Christian viewpoint that this values are worth having in our society today. Would you agree? Yes or No?

What the heck is the problem, with promoting the views i listed?
As a christian I would prefer to live in a society like Francos.

 

[oldrooster]

Duh! They are not the same values as Hitler! Hitler promoted Racial purity but Franco didnt. Franco couldnt care less.

Anyway I was trying to say from a Christian viewpoint that this values are worth having in our society today. Would you agree? Yes or No?

What the heck is the problem, with promoting the views i listed?
As a christian I would prefer to live in a society like Francos.

If this was my choice, I would be a communist anyday......

 

[Yahweh Nissi]

Ok guys, some things that we should all admire about Franco.

1) He restored Traditional Values

I am not entirely sure what you mean by this - but usually the phrase refers to a sort of worldy conservatism very different from the radical message of Jesus. Their stance on sexual ethics tends to be similar, but that is about it - and that was not something Jesus spent much time talking about.

2) He went to daily Communion

Good.

3) He expelled Communism from Spain

Before the facist/falangist/carlist/monarchist/whaterver insurrection against the democtraic Republic of Spain, there was little support for Soviet Communism - the vast majority of left-wingers were socialist or libertarian, the latter in particular having very little time for communists, especially Stalinists. The USSR was only able to gain more influence because no-one else would help the republicans and they needed support because of the nazi support of the rebbels (that is Franco et al, by the way).

4) He dealt with Basque Terrorists

I make this statement more hesitantly then most of the others as it is something I am not that sure about, but I believe Franco had quite a hand in inflaming that problem.

5) Homosexuals were arrested

That is terrible. I totally agree that sexual acts should only be between a married man and woman, but where did Jesus or the apostles ever say we should use state power to inforce morality? Do you think God is glorifed by people obeying Him at the point of a gun? Personally, I think He is glorified by people realising He is their LORD, repenting and choosing to obey Him.

6) Tranvesties were Arrested

See above.

7) Criminals were Arrested and were Appropriately Punished

Unfortunately opposing Franco's regeim made one a criminal.

8) Death penalty For Murderers

I disagree with this, but it is a complicated issue, so I do not condem Franco for this.

9) Non Vulgar media

i.e. state censorship of media and no freedom of speech. Great.

10) Healthy sexuality was promoted

I am in favour of this in principle, but I suspect I would disagree with the methods with which it was being 'promoted'.

Wouldnt we as Christians want especially from number 5 Onwards to be positive things that we could have now in our wonderful Democratic countries?

Not this Christian for one.

 

[SolomonVII]

xxxx

 

[MatthewG215]

but in the end, the best solution is allowing everyone's voice a forum, especially when we most vehemently disagree with them.

Sounds like a Commie line if you ask me!