Evidence of Rome's existence before Homer?

[Adventist Heretic]

Deoes anyone know of a reference to the City of Rome existence before Homer 7th & 8th century BC

 

[AlexB23]

Deoes anyone know of a reference to the City of Rome existence before Homer 7th & 8th century BC

Well, Homer Simpson existed since 1989 AD, while Rome fell completely by the 5th century. The Iliad was written by a different, and much better Homer in circa 800 BC, which is here, as the book is open access: The Internet Classics Archive | The Iliad by Homer

Rome was founded in 750s BC, so Homer existed slightly before Rome, by a half century: Ancient Rome

 

[JSRG]

Deoes anyone know of a reference to the City of Rome existence before Homer 7th & 8th century BC

I'm a little unsure what you're asking. But if you're asking if there's any writing prior to Homer (alleged author of the Iliad and the Odyssey) that mentions Rome, the answer would seem to be no, because the Iliad and the Odyssey are the oldest Greek literature we have.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

For questions like these chat GPT can be a good place to get some initial info but it must be verified, our chatty AI tends to omit info and make mistakes sometimes here is what it said to your question:

Yes, there is evidence suggesting the existence of settlements in the area of Rome before the time of Homer, who lived around the 8th century BC. The earliest inhabitants of the region were likely the Italic tribes, including the Latins, who are considered to be the ancestors of the Romans.

Archaeological evidence indicates that there were settlements in the area dating back to the Bronze Age, around the 10th century BC or even earlier. These early settlements gradually grew into larger urban centers over time.

One notable site is Palatine Hill, one of the Seven Hills of Rome, where archaeologists have found evidence of human habitation dating back to the 10th century BC. Additionally, the ancient Romans themselves believed that their city was founded in the 8th century BC, traditionally dated to 753 BC according to the Roman scholar Varro.

While there may not be direct references to the city of Rome specifically in Homer's works, there are mentions of Italy and its inhabitants, such as the Etruscans, who were neighbors to the early Romans. Overall, while specific details about Rome before the 8th century BC may be limited, there is ample evidence to suggest that the city and its predecessors existed in some form prior to Homer's time.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Etruscan, definitely, many sites found in many places in Italy

Etruscan | History, Art & Religion

Etruscan, member of an ancient people of Etruria, Italy, between the Tiber and Arno rivers west and south of the Apennines, whose urban civilization reached its height in the 6th century bce. Many features of Etruscan culture were adopted by the Romans, their successors to power in the peninsula. A

www.britannica.com

 

[AlexB23]

For questions like these chat GPT can be a good place to get some initial info but it must be verified, our chatty AI tends to omit info and make mistakes sometimes here is what it said to your question:

Yes, there is evidence suggesting the existence of settlements in the area of Rome before the time of Homer, who lived around the 8th century BC. The earliest inhabitants of the region were likely the Italic tribes, including the Latins, who are considered to be the ancestors of the Romans.

Archaeological evidence indicates that there were settlements in the area dating back to the Bronze Age, around the 10th century BC or even earlier. These early settlements gradually grew into larger urban centers over time.

One notable site is Palatine Hill, one of the Seven Hills of Rome, where archaeologists have found evidence of human habitation dating back to the 10th century BC. Additionally, the ancient Romans themselves believed that their city was founded in the 8th century BC, traditionally dated to 753 BC according to the Roman scholar Varro.

While there may not be direct references to the city of Rome specifically in Homer's works, there are mentions of Italy and its inhabitants, such as the Etruscans, who were neighbors to the early Romans. Overall, while specific details about Rome before the 8th century BC may be limited, there is ample evidence to suggest that the city and its predecessors existed in some form prior to Homer's time.

Wait, so you are using AI also? Nice. I use a bit of AI myself, though a privately run AI named Mistral 7B, a free AI developed by the French. And yes, I verify any AI generated info also.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Well, Homer Simpson existed since 1989 AD, while Rome fell completely by the 5th century. The Iliad was written by a different, and much better Homer in circa 800 BC, which is here, as the book is open access: The Internet Classics Archive | The Iliad by Homer

Rome was founded in 750s BC, so Homer existed slightly before Rome, by a half century: Ancient Rome

this is one of the problems with the Chronology. How could a man write about something before it happened, unless he had divine instruction.

 

[AlexB23]

this is one of the problems with the Chronology. How could a man write about something before it happened, unless he had divine instruction.

Well, I did not live 2,800 years ago, so I can not answer this. Maybe Rome was founded earlier, but not as an official city.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

For questions like these chat GPT can be a good place to get some initial info but it must be verified, our chatty AI tends to omit info and make mistakes sometimes here is what it said to your question:

Yes, there is evidence suggesting the existence of settlements in the area of Rome before the time of Homer, who lived around the 8th century BC. The earliest inhabitants of the region were likely the Italic tribes, including the Latins, who are considered to be the ancestors of the Romans.

Archaeological evidence indicates that there were settlements in the area dating back to the Bronze Age, around the 10th century BC or even earlier. These early settlements gradually grew into larger urban centers over time.

One notable site is Palatine Hill, one of the Seven Hills of Rome, where archaeologists have found evidence of human habitation dating back to the 10th century BC. Additionally, the ancient Romans themselves believed that their city was founded in the 8th century BC, traditionally dated to 753 BC according to the Roman scholar Varro.

While there may not be direct references to the city of Rome specifically in Homer's works, there are mentions of Italy and its inhabitants, such as the Etruscans, who were neighbors to the early Romans. Overall, while specific details about Rome before the 8th century BC may be limited, there is ample evidence to suggest that the city and its predecessors existed in some form prior to Homer's time.

What I am looking for is to verify the view that Rome was a descendant of Troy as some of the historians have stated. I am not looking for information about people who lived on the Italian peninsula before Rome unless it can help establish that the Trojans came and founded Rome or a city that existed before Rome.

The gap between the Fall of Troy in 1184 BC and the founding of Rome 753 BC is over 400 years. This gap exists because of the "Greek Dark Ages" when no political stability existed and no culture existed. Some have questioned whether this gap is real or just a figment of bad chronology.

What I am attempting to do is trace the history of the myth that the survivors from Troy founded Rome so far nothing goes back before Homer. Which means he either invented the story or the chronology is wrong. Because nothing exists before him.

 

[JSRG]

What I am looking for is to verify the view that Rome was a descendant of Troy as some of the historians have stated. I am not looking for information about people who lived on the Italian peninsula before Rome unless it can help establish that the Trojans came and founded Rome or a city that existed before Rome.

The gap between the Fall of Troy in 1184 BC and the founding of Rome 753 BC is over 400 years. This gap exists because of the "Greek Dark Ages" when no political stability existed and no culture existed. Some have questioned whether this gap is real or just a figment of bad chronology.

What I am attempting to do is trace the history of the myth that the survivors from Troy founded Rome so far nothing goes back before Homer. Which means he either invented the story or the chronology is wrong. Because nothing exists before him.

Where did Homer say that survivors from Troy founded Rome? I did a search through (translations into English, obviously) of The Iliad and the Odyssey for "Rome" and "Roman" and turned up zero results. Did he use a different term to describe it?

Though references to Homer always remind me of this:

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Wait, so you are using AI also? Nice. I use a bit of AI myself, though a privately run AI named Mistral 7B, a free AI developed by the French. And yes, I verify any AI generated info also.

I use it sometimes, it is useful but obviously flawed, I like to push it out of it's comfort zone... lol it keeps apologizing when i say it made errors or omissions...but it can be a useful tool if used proprely.

 

[AlexB23]

I use it sometimes, it is useful but obviously flawed, I like to push it out of it's comfort zone... lol it keeps apologizing when i say it made errors or omissions...but it can be a useful tool if used proprely.

Yeah, AI is not perfect, but it is good at analyzing things, including Bible verses and how we must treat our bodies as temples (ie. do not abuse drugs, or do reckless behavior).

 

[John G.]

Where did Homer say that survivors from Troy founded Rome? I

He never said it.
The Roman Virgil, in his Aenead, claimed that Aeneas with other Trojan survivors made the trip to Italy and founded Latium.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

I think I need to re-ask the question.

I am looking for information about Rome.
Specifically, I am looking for information on....

1. When Rome first became associated with Troy and the fall of Troy. Some sources and theories connect the 2 cities. I am trying to identify when that was. To do that there when need to do 2 things
a. Identify when Troy is first mentioned.
b. when Rome is first mentioned
c. When Rome and Troy are first connected together.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Is there any mention of Troy prior to Homer?

 

[John G.]

The Dorian invasion of Greece took place in 1100 BC.
The Trojan war occurred before that, around 1200 BC(?)
Rome wasn't built until 750+ BC.
Aeneas, survivor of Troy, founded Lavinium.
400 years later, his descendant, Romulus, founded Rome.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

The Dorian invasion of Greece took place in 1100 BC.
The Trojan war occurred before that, around 1200 BC(?)

The conventional date of the fall of Troy is 1183 B.C. An alternate view is 1220 B.C.
That is the current theory, based on conventional chronology. Some want to revise the chronology and move the date between 850 BC and 880 BC. The Gap in Greek chronology called the Greed Dark Ages according to them is a "Myth" This gap is based on a bad ordering of Egyptian Chronology. If you revise EC then you revise Greek Chronology. Chronology is not a settled matter. There are dominant views and Alternate views. What is being proposed is an alternate view.

Why the conventional date is such a problem? It is because of how they order the Dynasties. Some Dynasties exist at the same time but are ordered sequentially. If you Reorder them in the proper sequence then you shorten the timeline.

Rome wasn't built until 750+ BC.
Aeneas, survivor of Troy, founded Lavinium.
400 years later, his descendant, Romulus, founded Rome.