Early Catholic Church different from reformers

[Daveisonthisforum]

Does anybody know how the early Catholic Church (say 500AD and earlier) compares with the modern Catholic Church and with the Protestant reformation?

For example the prayers to the saints, papal infallibility, infant baptism, purgatory, priests forgiving sins, Mary being sinless etc-were these part of the early church?

Were the reformers actually returning the church to how it originated or would the modern church be unrecognisable to the early church?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Does anybody know how the early Catholic Church (say 500AD and earlier) compares with the modern Catholic Church and with the Protestant reformation?

For example the prayers to the saints, papal infallibility, infant baptism, purgatory, priests forgiving sins, Mary being sinless etc-were these part of the early church?

Were the reformers actually returning the church to how it originated or would the modern church be unrecognisable to the early church?

The early church was still sorting itself out. Who was Jesus? God? man? what writings belong in the bible. So many controversies. I think it is reasonable to consider the Holy Spirt at work guiding that development... even up to and beyond the reformation in both the Catholic and protestant churches.

 

[HTacianas]

Does anybody know how the early Catholic Church (say 500AD and earlier) compares with the modern Catholic Church and with the Protestant reformation?

For example the prayers to the saints, papal infallibility, infant baptism, purgatory, priests forgiving sins, Mary being sinless etc-were these part of the early church?

Were the reformers actually returning the church to how it originated or would the modern church be unrecognisable to the early church?

The answers to your questions are no and no. You've named a hodgepodge of traditions that are universal to Christianity. Prayers to the Saints, infant baptism, and priests forgiving sins have always been parts of Christianity. One of them to note is priests forgiving sins. Jesus said to his Apostles:

Jhn 20:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

That was an authority Christ himself gave to his Apostles and that authority has been handed down to their successors. There are other traditions of the Roman Church that were not part of the early Church. So that is the first no. The second no is the idea that the Reformers were returning the Church to its earliest form. They may have thought they were doing that but ended up -instead of reforming the Church- reforming Christianity itself into something that would be unrecognizable to the earliest Christians. Even moreso are the thousands of Protestant splinter groups that cropped up over time, each claiming to hold the truth apart from any of the others.

 

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[concretecamper]

Does anybody know how the early Catholic Church (say 500AD and earlier) compares with the modern Catholic Church and with the Protestant reformation?

For example the prayers to the saints, papal infallibility, infant baptism, purgatory, priests forgiving sins, Mary being sinless etc-were these part of the early church?

Yes to all.

Here is a great resource where you can rad about the Church Fathers. You will find that all the topics you raised are not recent beliefs. All date before 500 AD.

CHURCH FATHERS: Home

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

 

[jas3]

Another good resource that will address all of the practices and beliefs OP asked about: Church Fathers

Generally the most helpful way to use that website is to find quotations for a given topic and look up the documents referenced on New Advent or CCEL or a similar website to read the context.

 

[discombobulated1]

Does anybody know how the early Catholic Church (say 500AD and earlier) compares with the modern Catholic Church and with the Protestant reformation?

For example the prayers to the saints, papal infallibility, infant baptism, purgatory, priests forgiving sins, Mary being sinless etc-were these part of the early church?

Were the reformers actually returning the church to how it originated or would the modern church be unrecognisable to the early church?

No, it would not be recognizable.

Again, Jesus did not abandon the novus ordo church. But mere humans and anti-Christ ones. at that, changed things at Vatican II. Some say that it was the interpreters of Vatican II documents who instigated all the confusion and misery, and I cannot say I've read all V2 documents. However, I have been Catholic all my life, devout in the last couple decades. And no one can tell me that the changes-- however they all came about after V2.. were good. I have suffered an awful lot because of the changes-- a story that would take all day to write about and even then it wouldn't be the whole story. In any case, I hate how they gave up incense during Mass (most Masses), how it changed that the priest no longer faced the altar (God), but started facing the people (kind of like a rock concert! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]) and I could go on all day.. the greeting of others in the middle of the Mass! Please.. Come on! We're with humans all week long and we can't keep our focus on God for one hour on Sunday?! Or as Jesus said in the Garden before His agony: Could you not watch with me one hour?

I HATE the V2 changes (not just annoyed)! But that isn't half the story of how I personally suffered. There's this one story I have that I don't even want to talk about, not even to.. well, if I could find someone who has also been Catholic for a long time, who has also gone through the same things, then I would talk about it to that person. --

 

[discombobulated1]

The early church was still sorting itself out. Who was Jesus? God? man? what writings belong in the bible. So many controversies. I think it is reasonable to consider the Holy Spirt at work guiding that development... even up to and beyond the reformation in both the Catholic and protestant churches.

Exactly. Jesus said "I will BUILD My Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it"

In other words, the Church was not whole and entirely complete when He walked the earth, but was something that would develop over the centuries

 

[chevyontheriver]

No, it would not be recognizable.

Again, Jesus did not abandon the novus ordo church. But mere humans and anti-Christ ones. at that, changed things at Vatican II. Some say that it was the interpreters of Vatican II documents who instigated all the confusion and misery, and I cannot say I've read all V2 documents. However, I have been Catholic all my life, devout in the last couple decades. And no one can tell me that the changes-- however they all came about after V2.. were good. I have suffered an awful lot because of the changes-- a story that would take all day to write about and even then it wouldn't be the whole story. In any case, I hate how they gave up incense during Mass (most Masses), how it changed that the priest no longer faced the altar (God), but started facing the people (kind of like a rock concert! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]) and I could go on all day.. the greeting of others in the middle of the Mass! Please.. Come on! We're with humans all week long and we can't keep our focus on God for one hour on Sunday?! Or as Jesus said in the Garden before His agony: Could you not watch with me one hour?

I HATE the V2 changes (not just annoyed)! But that isn't half the story of how I personally suffered. There's this one story I have that I don't even want to talk about, not even to.. well, if I could find someone who has also been Catholic for a long time, who has also gone through the same things, then I would talk about it to that person. --

You might like Janet Smith's idea to have a healing event for those wounded by the abandonment of tradition.

Modern Catholic Recovery Conference

By Janet Smith - If Catholics want to hold a conference for Catholics who have been wounded by the modern Church, they will likely need a huge venue.

crisismagazine.com

It sure looks interesting even though it is only hypothetical at this time.

 

[The Liturgist]

You might like Janet Smith's idea to have a healing event for those wounded by the abandonment of tradition.

Modern Catholic Recovery Conference

By Janet Smith - If Catholics want to hold a conference for Catholics who have been wounded by the modern Church, they will likely need a huge venue.

crisismagazine.com

It sure looks interesting even though it is only hypothetical at this time.

I think a protest in St. Peter’s Square to demand the resignation of all liberal bishops whose policies disagree with those of Pope St. Pius X, Pope St. John Paul II and Pope St. Benedict XVI, and all clergy appointed by them or who ordained them, would be more productive and could get even better attendance.

 

[The Liturgist]

I HATE the V2 changes (not just annoyed)! But that isn't half the story of how I personally suffered. There's this one story I have that I don't even want to talk about, not even to.. well, if I could find someone who has also been Catholic for a long time, who has also gone through the same things, then I would talk about it to that person. --

God bless you! I have experienced similar trauma which is why I wound up becoming Orthodox, although I was not Catholic, but I have always loved the traditional Latin mass, and I would have joined the RCC were it not for the unexpected resignation of Pope Benedict XVI.

 

[DJWhalen]

Yes to all.

Here is a great resource where you can rad about the Church Fathers. You will find that all the topics you raised are not recent beliefs. All date before 500 AD.

CHURCH FATHERS: Home

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

Thank you!