Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[bbbbbbb]

I would say that is one possible explanation of why some do and some don't seek God. There may be other reasons that I cannot articulate at this time.

Thank you. If you develop other possibilities, please let me know.

 

[AbbaLove]

My question was regarding what attributes do people who seek after God have that people who do not seek after God lack?

Trust / Faith / Prayer. Life ... integrity, honesty, loving relationships. Parental guidance from childhood that encoourages a meaningful relationship with Christ Jesus.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on. your own [religious] understanding;
in all your ways submit to. Him, and He will make your paths straight.”​

28 pages on this thread suggests that it's our own religious misinterpretation that gets in His Way. .... Some just make it more difficult than necessary ... perhps to justify their carnal blind spots (Romans 6:1-23 / Dead to sin, Alive in Christ) and misinterpretation of Romans 7:15 when Paul is referring to one's sinful life before their born again conversion.

​

 

[zoidar]

Thank you. It is because some people are more genuinely humble than others, that they seek God. Is this a fair summary?

I don't think the Bible tells us why som seek God and others not. Each person is different and live different lives. We don't know why some are convicted and seek God, while others aren't. There are probably hundreds of different factors in play. One reason I can come to think of is some people really want to know the truth, others are content with life as it is. Why then do some people become seekers of truth? And why do some seekers end up in Buddhism and some in Christianity? Some people harden their heart and others are open to receive mercy. Why? No one knows, except God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don't think the Bible tells us why som seek God and others not. Each person is different and live different lives. We don't know why some are convicted and seek God, while others aren't. There are probably hundreds of different factors in play. One reason I can come to think of is some people really want to know the truth, others are content with life as it is. Why then do some people become seekers of truth? No one knows, except God.

Actually, the Bible not only does not tell us why some people seek God, but it explicately states that there are none that seek God, not even one. That is a very hard pill to swallow, indeed.

 

[John Mullally]

My question was regarding what attributes do people who seek after God have that people who do not seek after God lack? For example, some people attribute seeking after God to moral superiority or to intellectual superiority. What do you think are the conditions or attributes which enable some people to seek after God while others do not?

Jesus answered that question in John 3:16-21 and He makes no mention of God irresistibly coercing anyone to come to the light (as Calvinists teach)- so it appears reply on the trustees. See also the parable of the sower I sent =twice on the internet. God gives grace to the humble. The humble are those who take a hard look at their life, instead of making excuses, and do not persecute sincere individual those who oppose them and their doctrine,, or stretching reasoning to a breaking point in order to meet their presuppositions So great you asked. Humility and faith are the favorable human attributes (2 Peter 1:5-9) that lead to life!

 

[John Mullally]

Actually, the Bible not only does not tell us why some people seek God, but it explicately states that there are none that seek God, not even one. That is a very hard pill to swallow, indeed.

While it is true from Romans 3:9-12 that fallen humanity does not seek God, the good news is that God seeks humanity, and has positioned Himself as “not far away,” according to Paul’s sermon to the Athenians at Acts 17:27, specifically so that people can and will seek Him: “‘…that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us….’”

 

[Brightfame52]

In a sense your position mirrors that of Doug Brents. The problem is how one becomes genuinely humble. Is it a work of God, as you clearly state, or is it because of some innate human inclination?

Gods election of grace. The elect by His Grace will be regenerated and renewed Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Its the renewed person that seeks after God

 

[Brightfame52]

While it is true from Romans 3:9-12 that fallen humanity does not seek God, the good news is that God seeks humanity, and has positioned Himself as “not far away,” according to Paul’s sermon to the Athenians at Acts 17:27, specifically so that people can and will seek Him: “‘…that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us….’”

God seeks some of humanity, His lost Sheep, and the good news is, He finds them and saves them. Ezk 34 12

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Matt 18

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Lk 15 3-7

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Christ when He finds one of His Lost Sheep, He gives them repentance !

 

[bbbbbbb]

While it is true from Romans 3:9-12 that fallen humanity does not seek God, the good news is that God seeks humanity, and has positioned Himself as “not far away,” according to Paul’s sermon to the Athenians at Acts 17:27, specifically so that people can and will seek Him: “‘…that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us….’”

The difficult question is why some people are humble and seek after God and others, who may even be humble, do not seek after God or, even more perplexing, why many who are not sincerely humble also seek after God.

Most perplexing, at least for myself, are those who are as sincerely humble as can humanly be, and who seek after God, but cannot find Him simply because they have no access to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[bbbbbbb]

God seeks some of humanity, His lost Sheep, and the good news is, He finds them and saves them. Ezk 34 12

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Matt 18

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Lk 15 3-7

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Christ when He finds one of His Lost Sheep, He gives them repentance !

Along with that we have the promise of Jesus Christ that His Spirit draws His people to Himself. In contrast, we have John 12:32 - "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” On the face of it, it would seem that John is contradicting himself. Universalists have used this verse to bolster their theology. However, in order to do so, they are required to use the verse out of its context. The following verse explains the rationale - He said this to indicate what sort of death He would endure. This verse assuredly cannot be used to indicate that people will draw themselves to Jesus, but that Jesus is the one who does the drawing.

 

[bbbbbbb]

While it is true from Romans 3:9-12 that fallen humanity does not seek God, the good news is that God seeks humanity, and has positioned Himself as “not far away,” according to Paul’s sermon to the Athenians at Acts 17:27, specifically so that people can and will seek Him: “‘…that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us….’”

If I understand you correctly, humanity can be divided into two classes - fallen humanity who does not seek God versus non-fallen humanity who do seek God. God seems to be either unwilling or unable to bridge the gap between Himself and those who are non-fallen, expecting them to bridge the gap themselves by groping for Him and finding Him.

In any event, as I understand you, God has done everything for non-fallen humanity that He will and leaves it up to them to do the rest. As for fallen humanity, they don't seek God and go their way to perdition.

 

[Brightfame52]

Along with that we have the promise of Jesus Christ that His Spirit draws His people to Himself. In contrast, we have John 12:32 - "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” On the face of it, it would seem that John is contradicting himself. Universalists have used this verse to bolster their theology. However, in order to do so, they are required to use the verse out of its context. The following verse explains the rationale - He said this to indicate what sort of death He would endure. This verse assuredly cannot be used to indicate that people will draw themselves to Jesus, but that Jesus is the one who does the drawing.

Jn 12 32 still limited to His Sheep See Jn 10

 

[John Mullally]

If I understand you correctly, humanity can be divided into two classes - fallen humanity who does not seek God versus non-fallen humanity who do seek God. God seems to be either unwilling or unable to bridge the gap between Himself and those who are non-fallen, expecting them to bridge the gap themselves by groping for Him and finding Him.

Saying that mankind does not seek God on its own is not proof that one cannot reply or respond positively to a God who seeks to save the lost. Even pointing out that mankind are enemies of God, does not mean that we cannot confess our fallen state and reply to His message of reconciliation. There is nothing about being an enemy that implies or necessitates an inability to be reconciled to your enemy, just like there’s nothing about being a slave to sin which implies that you’re incapable of admitting that you’re enslaved when confronted. Just because you are a slave to sin, doesn’t mean that you cannot respond to God who offers to free you.

In any event, as I understand you, God has done everything for non-fallen humanity that He will and leaves it up to them to do the rest.

Christ died for humanity and God sent the Holy Spirit to convict men of their need to repent.

As for fallen humanity, they don't seek God and go their way to perdition.

Again re-read Act 17:27.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Saying that mankind does not seek God on its own is not proof that one cannot reply or respond positively to a God who seeks to save the lost. Even pointing out that mankind are enemies of God, does not mean that we cannot confess our fallen state and reply to His message of reconciliation. There is nothing about being an enemy that implies or necessitates an inability to be reconciled to your enemy, just like there’s nothing about being a slave to sin which implies that you’re incapable of admitting that you’re enslaved when confronted. Just because you are a slave to sin, doesn’t mean that you cannot respond to God who offers to free you.

Christ died for humanity and God sent the Holy Spirit to convict men of their need to repent/

Again re-read Act 17:27.

Do you perceive humanity as being in two primary classes - fallen (those who cannot or will not seek for God) and non-fallen (i.e. those who actually seek for God)?

 

[John Mullally]

Do you perceive humanity as being in two primary classes - fallen (those who cannot or will not seek for God) and non-fallen (i.e. those who actually seek for God)?

No. I believe that Jesus sincerely desires everyone to come to know Him (1 Timothy 2:4), but just because I don’t believe that He forces His love on to everyone, doesn’t mean that I question His sincerity. I believe that God wants everyone to be saved freely. God did not create anyone for damnation - hell was not created for mankind (Matthew 25:14).

 

[bbbbbbb]

No. I believe that Jesus sincerely desires everyone to come to know Him (1 Timothy 2:4), but just because I don’t believe that He forces His love on to everyone, doesn’t mean that I question His sincerity. I believe that God wants everyone to be saved freely.

Thank you. If you believe that all of humanity is equal, do you believe that all seek God or that all do not?

 

[John Mullally]

Thank you. If you believe that all of humanity is equal, do you believe that all seek God or that all do not?

God seeks after us and some respond positively. This is made clear in the parable of the Sower,, the parable of the Wedding Banquet, John 3:14-21, etc... Jesus even tried to win over those He termed "not His sheep" who who picked up stones to kill Him (John 10:25-38).

 

[bbbbbbb]

God seeks after us and some respond positively. This is made clear in the parable of the Sower,, the parable of the Wedding Banquet, John 3:14-21, etc... Jesus even tried to win over those who picked up stones to kill Him which He termed not His sheep in John 10:25-38.

My problem comes with the two identical psalms which are quoted by Paul in Romans 3 where it is unambiguously stated that there are none who seek God, not even one. One possible view is that, although there are none who seek God, all are equally capable of seeking God. The fact that none exercise that ability still remains.

As you have been consistently pointing out, scripture also indicates that there are, indeed, some who do seek God, such as Paul was on his way to Damascus. If there are some who do seek God, but not everyone seeks God, then you have two classes of individuals rather than one.

Is this understandable?

 

[zoidar]

God seeks some of humanity, His lost Sheep, and the good news is, He finds them and saves them. Ezk 34 12

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Matt 18

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Lk 15 3-7

3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying,

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Christ when He finds one of His Lost Sheep, He gives them repentance !

Why do you think Matt 18 says "if".

“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
— Matthew 18:12-14

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why do you think Matt 18 says "if".

“What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying? If it turns out that he finds it, truly I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine which have not gone astray. So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones perish.
— Matthew 18:12-14

One can easily read universalism into that passage.