Depressed? Introvert? Jesus still loves you.

[LovebirdsFlying]

Some time ago I recall seeing skits put on for a church service. The theme was, types of Christians not to be. One character was gossiping and sitting in judgment of everybody else rather than focusing on Christ or the sermon. Another character treated church as a fashion show, more interested in what everybody was wearing than in worshiping the Lord. One woman prayed, as a man stood beside her acting the role of God hearing her. She kept cutting Him off every time He tried to speak to her, and then she said “Amen” and walked away sad and frustrated, wondering why God never answers her prayers.

But there was one character…. now, this annoyed me. She entered the room slowly, head bowed, clutching a teddy bear—a grown woman—speaking not a word to anyone. She then stood motionless in a corner, facing the wall, and didn’t answer anyone who tried to start a conversation with her. Apparent intended message, if you are an introvert or have clinical depression, you are not a good Christian.

Well, I say hogwash.

This is a gross misrepresentation of both depression and introversion. Please allow me to illustrate.

Sadness and depression are not the same thing. Sadness is when your elderly dog dies, and a month later when you see a dog food commercial that reminds you of him, it makes you cry. Depression is when you’re watching your children happily playing with their new puppy, and you just… can’t… feel… anything because you have a malfunction in your brain chemistry. One of these is normal. The other is a medical condition. Neither makes you a bad Christian.

As for introversion, that’s not the same thing as social anxiety, or being antisocial. By the way, even the woman standing in the corner with the teddy bear, refusing to speak to anyone, is not being antisocial.

Another illustration:

A group of people want to go out and play Bingo. I don’t want to join them. I don’t like Bingo. I’d rather stay home and read. Am I antisocial? I’ve been accused of it in this situation, but no. Antisocial would be if I go to the Bingo game and deliberately disrupt it. I won’t play by the rules. I destroy people’s cards and shout over the caller. The madder they get, the harder I laugh. That’s antisocial. Merely not wanting to go, isn’t.

The woman with the teddy bear would have been antisocial if it were full of rocks instead of stuffing, and she walked in and started smacking people with it. Now, that’s not good Christian behavior. Let’s not judge someone who wants to stand in a corner for some unknown reason. And leave her alone. How do you know she’s not silently praying, and you’re interrupting her?

I repeat the title. If you have depression or social anxiety, or if you have an introverted personality, Jesus loves you and can use you. None of this makes you a bad Christian.

 

[rebornfree]

Some time ago I recall seeing skits put on for a church service. The theme was, types of Christians not to be. One character was gossiping and sitting in judgment of everybody else rather than focusing on Christ or the sermon. Another character treated church as a fashion show, more interested in what everybody was wearing than in worshiping the Lord. One woman prayed, as a man stood beside her acting the role of God hearing her. She kept cutting Him off every time He tried to speak to her, and then she said “Amen” and walked away sad and frustrated, wondering why God never answers her prayers.

But there was one character…. now, this annoyed me. She entered the room slowly, head bowed, clutching a teddy bear—a grown woman—speaking not a word to anyone. She then stood motionless in a corner, facing the wall, and didn’t answer anyone who tried to start a conversation with her. Apparent intended message, if you are an introvert or have clinical depression, you are not a good Christian.

Well, I say hogwash.

This is a gross misrepresentation of both depression and introversion. Please allow me to illustrate.

Sadness and depression are not the same thing. Sadness is when your elderly dog dies, and a month later when you see a dog food commercial that reminds you of him, it makes you cry. Depression is when you’re watching your children happily playing with their new puppy, and you just… can’t… feel… anything because you have a malfunction in your brain chemistry. One of these is normal. The other is a medical condition. Neither makes you a bad Christian.

As for introversion, that’s not the same thing as social anxiety, or being antisocial. By the way, even the woman standing in the corner with the teddy bear, refusing to speak to anyone, is not being antisocial.

Another illustration:

A group of people want to go out and play Bingo. I don’t want to join them. I don’t like Bingo. I’d rather stay home and read. Am I antisocial? I’ve been accused of it in this situation, but no. Antisocial would be if I go to the Bingo game and deliberately disrupt it. I won’t play by the rules. I destroy people’s cards and shout over the caller. The madder they get, the harder I laugh. That’s antisocial. Merely not wanting to go, isn’t.

The woman with the teddy bear would have been antisocial if it were full of rocks instead of stuffing, and she walked in and started smacking people with it. Now, that’s not good Christian behavior. Let’s not judge someone who wants to stand in a corner for some unknown reason. And leave her alone. How do you know she’s not silently praying, and you’re interrupting her?

I repeat the title. If you have depression or social anxiety, or if you have an introverted personality, Jesus loves you and can use you. None of this makes you a bad Christian.

Excellent post. I thought of the woman with the teddy bear as desperately sad and in need of gentle care, preceded by prayer so that those approaching her can follow the Holy Spirit's guidance in how to help her. I didn't see her as a bad Christian and feel sad if others think of her like that. However maybe she needed to be left alone as you say

I agree with you that brain chemistry malfunctioning is an illness. But I also think that depression can be caused by severe emotional losses or deprivation, maybe from years ago. Expressions like "Get over it,", "Don't think of yourself, think of others" (my NIV says "Don't think only of yourself" - a vast difference) or minimising someone's distress by comparing it as insignificant related to another's situation are really not helpful. Something I learnt from my Church leader is to accept people as they are; to love not judge.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I don't know much more about brain chemistry than I've already said, but there is some suggestion that those sad and traumatic events can actually cause the brain chemistry to misfire, creating the depressive thoughts, which in turn influence the brain chemistry..... Which is chicken and which is egg, I have no idea.

Mark 12:31 quotes Leviticus 19:18, "Love your neighbor as yourself." This does presume some measure of self-esteem, doesn't it? Oh, if I were to truly love my neighbor as I do myself--it would be disastrous. The mean things I would say to them. The way I would neglect their needs. The harsh judgments I would hurl at them for their every slightest mistakes.

If we're going to love our neighbors as ourselves, and do it like it's a good thing, we'd better get to loving ourselves, right?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

There are also genetic-based tendencies toward neurosis and depression.
I have been a student of genealogy and genetics for several years. I had my DNA tested ten years ago. Analysis of my DNA states that there is a 100% tendency toward neurosis. Faith that works through love and an awareness of the conditions overcomes the problem.
The Lord is good. Praise and being thankful are helpful too.

 

[rebornfree]

I don't know much more about brain chemistry than I've already said, but there is some suggestion that those sad and traumatic events can actually cause the brain chemistry to misfire, creating the depressive thoughts, which in turn influence the brain chemistry..... Which is chicken and which is egg, I have no idea.

Mark 12:31 quotes Leviticus 19:18, "Love your neighbor as yourself." This does presume some measure of self-esteem, doesn't it? Oh, if I were to truly love my neighbor as I do myself--it would be disastrous. The mean things I would say to them. The way I would neglect their needs. The harsh judgments I would hurl at them for their every slightest mistakes.

If we're going to love our neighbors as ourselves, and do it like it's a good thing, we'd better get to loving ourselves, right?

Yes, I'm not sure which way around it is with brain chemistry, but if depression is caused by neurons not working properly then it is a physical illness and, just like any other serious illness, the sufferer deserves some love and compassion not criticism or extra demands made of them.

I love your Mark 12:31 and Leviticus 19:18 quotes. I cannot see anywhere in the Bible where we cannot love ourselves. Jesus talked about doing to others as we would have them do to us. (I can't find the reference atm.) I would encourage anyone who has mental health issues to seek the help they need therefore I should also be able to have it myself. I would just pray first and look to God to heal and make sure that any help I get doesn't have any dubious spiritual roots.

I feel sad that you seem so hard on yourself; remember your value as God's child whatever anyone else (including you) says. So yes, we need to love ourselves. The problem is that so few people seem to understand depression.

 

[rebornfree]

There are also genetic-based tendencies toward neurosis and depression.
I have been a student of genealogy and genetics for several years. I had my DNA tested ten years ago. Analysis of my DNA states that there is a 100% tendency toward neurosis. Faith that works through love and an awareness of the conditions overcomes the problem.
The Lord is good. Praise and being thankful are helpful too.

That's interesting - I didn't know that neurosis could be inherited. Looking at it from a behavioural perspective I can see that a child of a depressed person may have a tendency towards depression because of the effects of their parent's illness on them, but I've not known that it could be passed down the generations biologically.

I'm sorry that you have a 100% tendency towards neurosis but hope that knowing that has helped in overcoming it. It sounds as if it has and that the Lord has healed you. Praise God!

My own sadness comes from separation from my birth mother and lack of maternal care pre-adoption. I can testify to the Lord's goodness too. He has taken me on a journey of understanding the effects of lack of attachment and I can see now how it has affected my life, which enables me to understand current situations without the earlier loss affecting it so much. He is good, as you say and as the OP says in the title of this thread.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

That's interesting - I didn't know that neurosis could be inherited. Looking at it from a behavioural perspective I can see that a child of a depressed person may have a tendency towards depression because of the effects of their parent's illness on them, but I've not known that it could be passed down the generations biologically.

I'm sorry that you have a 100% tendency towards neurosis but hope that knowing that has helped in overcoming it. It sounds as if it has and that the Lord has healed you. Praise God!

My own sadness comes from separation from my birth mother and lack of maternal care pre-adoption. I can testify to the Lord's goodness too. He has taken me on a journey of understanding the effects of lack of attachment and I can see now how it has affected my life, which enables me to understand current situations without the earlier loss affecting it so much. He is good, as you say and as the OP says in the title of this thread.

This is the analysis and DNA markers that genetics say play a part in inherited neurotic.
Also studies that show the associations. You can get a DNA test from ancestry . com now for 49 bucks. The test returns about 700,000 genes.
________________________________________________________________________________

Neuroticism​

A neurotic person is prone to experiencing negative feelings like anxiety, depression, and emotional instability. Psychologists have defined neuroticism as one of the five psychological traits (the “Big 5”) forming the basis of personality.


100%
You have a stronger tendency to be more neurotic

Highly reliable​

Based on at least one highly reliable research study. A highly reliable study checks these boxes: a large sample population; the findings have strong statistical significance; the findings are replicated in further studies.

Reference papers and your DNA​

Genome-wide analysis of over 106 000 individuals identifies 9 neuroticism-associated loci.​

Smith DJ et al. 2016
Researchers performed a genome-wide association study (GWAS) of neuroticism in participants from three cohorts. Meta-analysis identified nine novel loci associated with neuroticism. A strong association was observed at a locus on chromosome 8 spanning 4 Mb and containing at least 36 genes. Other associated loci including interesting candidate genes were on chromosome 1 (GRIK3), chromosome 4 (KLHL2), chromosome 17 (CRHR1 and MAPT) and chromosome 18 (CELF4).
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27067015

Association analysis in over 329,000 individuals identifies 116 independent variants influencing neuroticism.​

Luciano M et al. 2018
Researchers identified more than 100 significant independent loci from a GWAS of neuroticism in UK Biobank participants;15 of these loci replicated in an unrelated cohort. These loci locate near CACNA1E, MSRA, XKR6 ,LINGO2, CELF4, ZC3H7B and BAIAP2. Genetic signals were enriched in neuronal genesis and differentiation pathways, and substantial genetic correlations were found between neuroticism and depressive symptoms, major depressive disorder and subjective well-being alongside other mental health traits.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29255261

Multi-trait analysis of genome-wide association summary statistics using MTAG.​

Turley P et al. 2018
Researchers introduce multi-trait analysis of GWAS (MTAG), a method for joint analysis of summary statistics from genome-wide association studies (GWAS) of different traits. They used MTAG to summary statistics for depressive symptoms, neuroticism and subjective well-being. In regard to neuroticism, the number of lead SNPs increases from 9 to 37 from GWAS to MTAG. Some of these SNPs located near PCLO, BSN CACNA1E and all encode important parts of the machinery that releases neurotransmitter from the signaling neuron.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29292387

Meta-analysis of genome-wide association studies for neuroticism in 449,484 individuals identifies novel genetic loci and pathways.​

Nagel M et al. 2018
Researchers conducted a large GWAS meta- analysis of neuroticism from the UK Biobank study, 23andMe, Inc. and the Genetics of Personality Consortium. They identified 136 independent genome-wide significant loci (124 new at the time of analysis). Of the 17,794 SNPs in high linkage disequilibrium (LD) with one of the independent significant SNPs, most were intronic or intergenic and 3.8% were annotated as potentially having a functional impact, with 0.9% (155 SNPs) being exonic, of which 70 were exonic nonsynonymous (ExNS). These ExNS risk locus were locate near gene such as MAPT, FAM120AOS, GNL3 and ITIH1.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29942085

Result	Scientific Reliability	Chrom	SNP ID	Population
AA Increases neuroticism	4 out of 4stars	chr17	rs4969391	Euro

 

[rebornfree]

This is the analysis and DNA markers that genetics say play a part in inherited neurotic.
Also studies that show the associations. You can get a DNA test from ancestry . com now for 49 bucks. The test returns about 700,000 genes.
________________________________________________________________________________

Neuroticism​

A neurotic person is prone to experiencing negative feelings like anxiety, depression, and emotional instability. Psychologists have defined neuroticism as one of the five psychological traits (the “Big 5”) forming the basis of personality.


100%
You have a stronger tendency to be more neurotic

Highly reliable​

Based on at least one highly reliable research study. A highly reliable study checks these boxes: a large sample population; the findings have strong statistical significance; the findings are replicated in further studies.

Reference papers and your DNA​

Genome-wide analysis of over 106 000 individuals identifies 9 neuroticism-associated loci.​

Smith DJ et al. 2016
Researchers performed a genome-wide association study (GWAS) of neuroticism in participants from three cohorts. Meta-analysis identified nine novel loci associated with neuroticism. A strong association was observed at a locus on chromosome 8 spanning 4 Mb and containing at least 36 genes. Other associated loci including interesting candidate genes were on chromosome 1 (GRIK3), chromosome 4 (KLHL2), chromosome 17 (CRHR1 and MAPT) and chromosome 18 (CELF4).
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27067015

Association analysis in over 329,000 individuals identifies 116 independent variants influencing neuroticism.​

Luciano M et al. 2018
Researchers identified more than 100 significant independent loci from a GWAS of neuroticism in UK Biobank participants;15 of these loci replicated in an unrelated cohort. These loci locate near CACNA1E, MSRA, XKR6 ,LINGO2, CELF4, ZC3H7B and BAIAP2. Genetic signals were enriched in neuronal genesis and differentiation pathways, and substantial genetic correlations were found between neuroticism and depressive symptoms, major depressive disorder and subjective well-being alongside other mental health traits.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29255261

Multi-trait analysis of genome-wide association summary statistics using MTAG.​

Turley P et al. 2018
Researchers introduce multi-trait analysis of GWAS (MTAG), a method for joint analysis of summary statistics from genome-wide association studies (GWAS) of different traits. They used MTAG to summary statistics for depressive symptoms, neuroticism and subjective well-being. In regard to neuroticism, the number of lead SNPs increases from 9 to 37 from GWAS to MTAG. Some of these SNPs located near PCLO, BSN CACNA1E and all encode important parts of the machinery that releases neurotransmitter from the signaling neuron.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29292387

Meta-analysis of genome-wide association studies for neuroticism in 449,484 individuals identifies novel genetic loci and pathways.​

Nagel M et al. 2018
Researchers conducted a large GWAS meta- analysis of neuroticism from the UK Biobank study, 23andMe, Inc. and the Genetics of Personality Consortium. They identified 136 independent genome-wide significant loci (124 new at the time of analysis). Of the 17,794 SNPs in high linkage disequilibrium (LD) with one of the independent significant SNPs, most were intronic or intergenic and 3.8% were annotated as potentially having a functional impact, with 0.9% (155 SNPs) being exonic, of which 70 were exonic nonsynonymous (ExNS). These ExNS risk locus were locate near gene such as MAPT, FAM120AOS, GNL3 and ITIH1.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29942085

Result	Scientific Reliability	Chrom	SNP ID	Population
AA Increases neuroticism	4 out of 4stars	chr17	rs4969391	Euro

Thank you for the information Savedbygrace3. It seems that the genetic root of a vulnerability to depression has been firmly established.