Contempt For Ordinary Voters Undermines Opposition To Trump

[Hans Blaster]

Selling stolen stuff is common everywhere. Anybody who's ever searched Facebook Marketplace for tools can see loads of listings that are obviously shady.

I've never been to Facebook as it is rather shady, but I have encountered goods for sale that did seem likely to be stolen. I declined to purchase and avoided those places in the future.

 

[Vambram]

Therein lies the problem with your approach. You don’t actually know if what they’re telling you is true. You just trust them to not be lying about their experiences but if most people you asked told you they feel safe in big cities, I doubt you’d be here relating to us how safe the big cities are. Those people would just become lying, big city leftists who want to push a pro crime agenda.

This is why we rely on statistics instead of gut feelings and subjective opinions.

You trust the government. I don't.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You trust the government. I don't.

"The Government" isn't some sort of monolith. It is more of an amorphous blob. Even when the statistics are issued by a government agency headed by a partisan or someone appointed by a partisan, it doesn't mean that the statistics are biased. In this case crime statistics are issued by a unit of the DOJ. They are not issued by Biden's DOJ or previously by Trump's DOJ, but by the DOJ. The people working on them are long-term non-political employees of the DOJ. Similar things are true of other statistics and data from other federal and state agencies.

 

[Vambram]

I don't trust the amorphous blob.

 

[rambot]

I don't trust the amorphous blob.

You trust the blob that you carefully construct around your views.

 

[rambot]

You trust the government. I don't.

I've never really understood people who say "I don't trust the government".

FYI, 98% of people who are in the government are people pretty similar to you and me. When I worked in a government controlled youth treatment facility, I did the exact same work as individuals who worked in private treatment centres but I got paid a fairer wage and had ACTUAL health benefits to help me through the tremendous beating my mental health regularly received.

The fact is that most government work, data collectors, the kind of people who gather survey results, want to do the best job in service to their community. I was not some double government agent wearing a dark suit and sunglasses all the time. I was just a guy who dressed and behaved like private industry people the same job as me.

There is no reason to believe that statisticians are lying about this other than it fits your narrative.

Have you listenned to the stories of nonviolence occurring to people? No.
So how can you know that your sources of information are solid? You say you can't trust news media....then you trot out examples of news media saying how violent cities are wherein THEY don't quote meaningful stats.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I've never really understood people who say "I don't trust the government".

It's a convenient and lazy way of dismissing something with which an individual has no connection.

Don't know anybody who works in government? Well, then it's easy to turn them into caricatures and demonize them.
Ditto for: professors, media professionals, urban liberals, artists, gun owners, the poor, the wealthy, and most any other group.

FYI, 98% of people who are in the government are people pretty similar to you and me. When I worked in a government controlled youth treatment facility, I did the exact same work as individuals who worked in private treatment centres but I got paid a fairer wage and had ACTUAL health benefits to help me through the tremendous beating my mental health regularly received.

The fact is that most government work, data collectors, the kind of people who gather survey results, want to do the best job in service to their community. I was not some double government agent wearing a dark suit and sunglasses all the time. I was just a guy who dressed and behaved like private industry people the same job as me.

There is no reason to believe that statisticians are lying about this other than it fits your narrative.

Yeah, well, that would require a certain faction to acknowledge and respect the notion of professionalism, which, if you're voting for Trump in the primaries, is probably not in the forefront of one's mind very often.

Have you listenned to the stories of nonviolence occurring to people? No.
So how can you know that your sources of information are solid? You say you can't trust news media....then you trot out examples of news media saying how violent cities are wherein THEY don't quote meaningful stats.

It's not they they don't trust media or government or whatever; it's that they don't trust the ones who don't confirm their priors.

 

[Vambram]

It's a convenient and lazy way of dismissing something with which an individual has no connection.

Don't know anybody who works in government? Well, then it's easy to turn them into caricatures and demonize them.
Ditto for: professors, media professionals, urban liberals, artists, gun owners, the poor, the wealthy, and most any other group.



Yeah, well, that would require a certain faction to acknowledge and respect the notion of professionalism, which, if you're voting for Trump in the primaries, is probably not in the forefront of one's mind very often.


It's not they they don't trust media or government or whatever; it's that they don't trust the ones who don't confirm their priors.

This post, and others similar to it, proves to me that liberals cannot and will not ever really understand conservatives.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

You trust the government. I don't.

Fair enough.

Do you believe crime rates were lower while Trump was president?

 

[Vambram]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/cnn-poll-trump-biden-matchup/index.html

 

[Vambram]

Fair enough.

Do you believe crime rates were lower while Trump was president?

A president has little influence upon the crime rate. However, if people look at the laws in the states and cities as well as how those laws are enforced; then people can determine what influences crime rates in cities and states. When I remember the looting, the robberies and other crimes in California, in San Francisco, and in other places, I also remember stores closing down there businesses and/or moving out of some of the big cities because of crime.

 

[Vambram]

You trust the blob that you carefully construct around your views.

Your interpretation about who I trust is absolutely 100% incorrect.

 

[Vambram]

What, the same side that wants to make voting “secure” so that poor folk will be disincentivized to vote, thinks that anti-Trump people have a dim view of the American electorate?
Somewhere out past Russell’s Teapot an irony meter just asploded!

Only a liberal would believe that making sure voting is secure would believe doing so would disincentivised people to vote.

 

[iluvatar5150]

This post, and others similar to it, proves to me that liberals cannot and will not ever really understand conservatives.

I did a term paper on Rush Limbaugh in 8th grade in the mid 90’s. My dad still wears the Dittohead shirt I bought him for Fathers Day back then.

I understand conservatives perfectly well. In fact, I can usually articulate their positions better than they can.

 

[Hans Blaster]

This post, and others similar to it, proves to me that liberals cannot and will not ever really understand conservatives.

When you guys plan to conserve anything?

 

[Bradskii]

A president has little influence upon the crime rate. However, if people look at the laws in the states and cities as well as how those laws are enforced; then people can determine what influences crime rates in cities and states. When I remember the looting, the robberies and other crimes in California, in San Francisco, and in other places, I also remember stores closing down there businesses and/or moving out of some of the big cities because of crime.

You've been given some hard data on crime in a large city. You have completely ignored it. This is nothing more than willfull ignorance.

 

[Pommer]

This post, and others similar to it, proves to me that liberals cannot and will not ever really understand conservatives.

The conservative position is “overall, government makes more problems than it solves, therefore the smaller (and weaker) the government is, the better.”

 

[Vambram]

You've been given some hard data on crime in a large city. You have completely ignored it. This is nothing more than willfull ignorance.

You are ignoring the reality of what has actually happened in the big cities. You are the one who appears to be gleefully and willfully ignorant.

 

[Vambram]

The conservative position is “overall, government makes more problems than it solves, therefore the smaller (and weaker) the government is, the better.”

Close. Instead of smaller and weaker, government performs better when it is smaller and more efficient and with much, much, much less corruption than what is in the Federal Government.

 

[Pommer]

Close. Instead of smaller and weaker, government performs better when it is smaller and more efficient and with much, much, much less corruption than what is in the Federal Government.

But the “Conservative” solution negates the fact that Congress delegates its power to the bureaus and agencies its own legislation creates.
How are we to run Nation without having a system of governance, (whose workings would overwhelm Congress in minutia and policy on the “into the weeds” level); yes, government is “inefficient“, it’s designed that way to make sure that any changes get made slowly and deliberately.