Can you help with this quandary?

[OldWoodsman]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Neogaia777]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

First off, please, please don't try to judge, or try to determine the next sets of the courses of choices or actions from here based on all the imperfect people who call themselves Christians, etc, and I would even include myself in that, etc. You must look at Jesus, and maybe some of the Apostles, and the Bible, for your definitions of what it means to be truly Godly, or be of God, or be a Christian, etc, ok. It is good that you are seeking this, and I would encourage you to follow it further, and not give up, ok.

And while I don't know that I can answer all of your questions right now, I would like to address the problem of evil, and it's existence for a minute, ok.

And to try to put it as much shortly as I can (because the problems and reasons for evil and the existence of evil are quite extensive, etc) there are some things we can only learn by experiencing it, and sometimes, even doing it, etc, which means both others and ourselves, sometimes have to suffer for it and/or experience "pain" because of it, etc.

Try to think for a minute about all that is learned from it, and consider that there was no other way for a minute, ok. All that we know right now was (or always is) always gained from it, etc, and that's why it is there right now, etc, or has to be here right now until we are made perfect or truly good from it, etc, and until then it will never go away yet, and there is no other way, etc, not even for a God who could make it all disappear in a moment, but that also wants other beings who can know Him or that can be made like Him, etc, because in order to do that, or make that happen, there is no other way, etc.

I hope this helps.

Ask me more if you wish.

Very glad you are on this journey.

Don't give up on it, ok.

God Bless.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

Christianity is just as much of a journey as Buddhism. The difference, one is union with our Creator the other is the absence of our Creator. We can not serve two masters. This is why Jesus Christ of Nazareth said one must Love Him more than anyone or anything. This is something only you can do, then He will make His Home in you forever giving you peace. This is a complete surrender.
Be blessed.

 

[OldWoodsman]

Christianity is just as much of a journey as Buddhism. The difference, one is union with our Creator the other is the absence of our Creator. We can not serve two masters. This is why Jesus Christ of Nazareth said one must Love Him more than anyone or anything. This is something only you can do, then He will make His Home in you forever giving you peace. This is a complete surrender.
Be blessed.

How did God create me....was I not created by my parents? <sorry, feels like a cumbersome question>!

 

[FrankMu]

God created you, how do you explain your formation in your mother's womb if no supernatural power was involved?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

How did God create me....was I not created by my parents? <sorry, feels like a cumbersome question>!

God created all living things then gave them the ability to reproduce after their own kind. This was in the beginning.

 

[OldWoodsman]

God created you, how do you explain your formation in your mother's womb if no supernatural power was involved?

The same way as if I bring fuel, oxygen and heat I get fire....nothing supernatural there.

 

[ozso]

The same way as if I bring fuel, oxygen and heat I get fire....nothing supernatural there.

God created your soul.

 

[Brihaha]

If you are inspired to read the bible then read the bible. It should inspire you more. I read some Buddhism, Koran, Tao Te Ching etc. And I am a Christian myself. The Holy Spirit moves people. Most people search for understanding. Knowledge is merely facts without understanding. Often it takes a while for understanding to derive from our learned knowledge. I've always been intrigued by the Buddhist tenets regarding reincarnation. Reading for knowledge isn't a sin. Read if you feel a need. I'm learning the word is actually the living word if I choose to live in it. I wish you well. Peace

 

[eleos1954]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

God suffers along with us ... that is He shares in our suffering.

We live in a fallen (sinful) world and pain and suffering attests to just how destructive sin is. Freedom of choice is a big deal to God ... why?
Love ... true love can not be forced .... else it's not love. God don't force Himself on anyone.

Experience is the best teacher.

Keep in mind .... this earthly life is not the end for believers

1 Peter 5:10 ESV​

And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

Romans 8:18 ESV​

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

He will one day end it .... we just need to be patient.

Revelation 14:12-20
King James Version
​

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And we patiently wait until His return ... Amen!

 

[OldWoodsman]

God created your soul.

Do I 'own' my soul? If so, who is it that is the possessor of the soul?

 

[Neogaia777]

Do I 'own' my soul? If so, who is it that is the possessor of the soul?

God owns and is the possessor of all, and everything, etc.

But if you are asking how much is you maybe, then maybe that's something we can discuss maybe, etc.

Although it might take me a while to discuss all of my particular views on that maybe, etc.

God Bless.

 

[ozso]

Do I 'own' my soul? If so, who is it that is the possessor of the soul?

I was pointing out that your soul is the supernatural aspect of you being created. And your physical form houses your soul. When you die, your soul will Ieave your body and you'll stand before God. That's what the saying "meet your maker" comes from.

God owns us body and soul. We belong to him. However God has given you free will to choose to accept him and be his, or to reject him and separate yourself from him.

 

[OldWoodsman]

I was pointing out that your soul is the supernatural aspect of you being created. And your physical form houses your soul. When you die, your soul will Ieave your body and you'll stand before God. That's what the saying "meet your maker" comes from.

God owns us body and soul. We belong to him. However God has given you free will to choose to accept him and be his, or to reject him and separate yourself from him.

I struggle with the 'Free Will' stance. If my child was about to burn themselves would I stand back and say "...not going to intervene, they have free will..." - what sort of a father would I be then???

 

[ozso]

I struggle with the 'Free Will' stance. If my child was about to burn themselves would I stand back and say "...not going to intervene, they have free will..." - what sort of a father would I be then???

If God prevented us from making our own choices, and controlled what we do according to his will, then we wouldn't have free will. We'd just be his robots. So while I get what you're saying, there's also the question of what kind of a father would you be if you controlled every aspect of your child's life?

We could say we want God to only control certain aspects of our life, but who would determine those boundaries, us or God? If God, then God is the one who does the establishing according to his will, which cancels out our will. If according to our will, then that's pretty much us having free will.

 

[OldWoodsman]

If God prevented us from making our own choices, and controlled what we do according to his will, then we wouldn't have free will. We'd just be his robots. So while I get what you're saying, there's also the question of what kind of a father would you be if you controlled every aspect of your child's life?

We could say we want God to only control certain aspects of our life, but who would determine those boundaries, us or God? If God, then God is the one who does the establishing according to his will, which cancels out our will. If according to our will, then that's pretty much us having free will.

Thats really helpful, thanks - I like your mind!!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello,

I wonder if you might help me work out this for me? A little background first, so bear with me as its relevant.

Hugely influenced by Buddhism for many years, I mean decades - I had an experience that dictated I started to develop a faith in Christ. I won't go into the details, but it was a very simple openness to the possibility that I can be heard by Christ and as such I started to feel 'held' (emotionally and mentally). You have to realise, this was so far removed from the deep immersion in Buddhist philosophy (Madhyamika Prasangika if you're interested) and as such my subsequent view of reality - I still maintain that this particular school of Buddhism corners the non-dual approach. But anyway, none of that seemed anything more than a conceptual understanding, my mind and heart had given up and was leaning into this new feeling of 'faith'.

It was as if I was starting to see the world though eyes I had not used before. It was liberating and exciting. A much more relaxed approach to the inherent anxieties that we experience as humans.

However, there's always a 'but' isn't there! Of late, I have started to have some real doubts. The very 'faith' that I was experiencing, the positivity, the warmth and lack of anxiety has been replaced with an almost aggressive attitude to my previously new thinking style. Here's a breakdown of how I am thinking now - your help unpicking this would be gratefully received.

"...how could I be so naïve to believe? I mean, Christ was likely a profoundly empathic and altruistic man, but his teachings and advice has been turned into a machine with agendas often different from his initial agenda. The problem of evil is also too much of a thorn to be ignored. The arguments justifying why the old woman was robbed having been a humble Christian all her life, and the thief merely enjoying the fruits of his act simply just don't cut it any more... There's another thing, why would a kind and compassionate being not step in to assist their children when required? Not just once but all the time. If I saw my child go near a fire, I would IMMEDIATELY step in to stop them. If it happened again I wouldn't merely say 'well you have been told already that's dangerous' and leave them to be harmed.....its also so arrogant of me to assume that my experience as a budding Christian is unique to it being Christian, does that mean all other faiths are fundamentally wrong - that's pathologically arrogant....."​

Anyway, you get the gist, but here's the thing. I am STILL feeling a nagging compulsion to give in, read the Bible, Pray to God etc..... Its really irritating me now, as exactly 50% of me is erring on the side of my thoughts are merely a desperate attempt to quash my existential fears....and 50% s=telling me its the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for reading.

Why not just choose to ignore the Bible altogether? You have personal agency and always have that option of choice, don't you?

Personally, I'm inclined to take an interest in Hope.

 

[OldWoodsman]

Why not just choose to ignore the Bible altogether? You have personal agency and always have that option of choice, don't you?

Personally, I'm inclined to take an interest in Hope.

Of course, I have personal agency. My issue is I feel like I am being driven by something that is instinctively outside of myself. I simply don't recognise it other than being able to acknowledge that its there. Like a colour I have not ever seen before.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Of course, I have personal agency. My issue is I feel like I am being driven by something that is instinctively outside of myself. I simply don't recognise it other than being able to acknowledge that its there. Like a colour I have not ever seen before.

Well then, like the rest of us, you'll have to decide whether you think it's merely the natural survival instinct kicking into overdrive as you age, or if it may be the prompting of the Holy Spirit moving you to journey onward ...

No one here on this forum will be able to take you to the evidential spot you're wanting to be so you can discern the final evidential puzzle piece for yourself. In fact, none of us has really been to that spot ourselves. Most of us are, like you, still trekking along with the epistemological gear that we could afford in tow.

 

[OldWoodsman]

Well then, like the rest of us, you'll have to decide whether you think it's merely the natural survival instinct kicking into overdrive as you age, or if it may be the prompting of the Holy Spirit moving you to journey onward ...

No one here on this forum will be able to take you to the evidential spot you're wanting to be so you can discern the final evidential puzzle piece for yourself. In fact, none of us has really been to that spot ourselves. Most of us are, like you, still trekking along with the epistemological gear that we could afford in tow.

I know, and I appreciate that - it's just the antithesis of my established philosophical base as to be almost confusing. There's an old Zen saying "After Enlightenment, the dishes..." If you understand that, then you might understand how its feeling. I also recall a lecturer at my first university saying, "...it doesn't matter whether its right or wrong, its whether it works..." - she was talking about belief, of course.

I guess as difficult as it is for me to admit, I am just looking for some validation.