Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation?

[Rapture Bound]

The real problem is not if someone can lose their salvation,

but that so many (multitudes) think they are saved and are not.

Yes indeed my friend! - as you stated, "The real problem is not if someone can lose their salvation, but that so many (multitudes) think they are saved and are not."

John 10:26-28,”But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

It's critical to note that Jesus said His [genuine] sheep follow Him. He didn't say that only some of His sheep will follow Him, or that some will start following Him, but will subsequently fail to continue following Him ... all of His sheep *will* follow Him [as imperfectly that that "following Him" may appear at times].

How do we know, as born again, Holy Spirit indwelt children of God, that we will continue following Him to the end of our lives on this Earth? ... God Himself has promised to finish the work of salvation that He began at the new birth experience. Philippians 1:6, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you *will* perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

It is God who ultimately preserves His children throughout the process of salvation. Salvation isn't just a single action; it's a continuous journey of growth and transformation, a process that unfolds over a lifetime.

A conversation that took place between Charles Simeon and John Wesley illustrates the assertion that it is God who does the preserving :

Charles Simeon (1758–1836) reinvigorated the English church with his emphasis on the primacy of Scripture and the necessity of practical application. Simeon was a Calvinist but disliked the label.

The Arminian leader, John Wesley was born on June 17, 1703 in Epworth, England and died on March 2, 1791 in London, England at 87 years of age. Wesley was an Anglican priest and the founder of the Methodist movement. He was educated at Charterhouse and Christ Church, Oxford, where he led the "Holy Club". In 1738, he experienced an evangelical conversion and left the Moravians to begin his own ministry.

The date on which the following dialogue took place between Wesley and Simeon was December 20, 1784, per Wesley's Journal. Wesley was 81 years old, and Simeon was 26 years old ...

Below, Charles Simeon writes about his experience in the third person perspective) :

--"Sir, I (Simeon) understand that you (Wesley)are called an Arminian; and I have been sometimes called a Calvinist; and therefore I suppose we are to draw daggers. But before I consent to begin the combat, with your permission I will ask you a few questions, not from impertinent curiosity, but for real instruction."
Permission being very readily and kindly granted, the young Minister proceeded to ask,
--"Pray, Sir, do you feel yourself a depraved creature, so depraved, that you would never have thought of turning unto God, if God had not first put it into your heart?
--"Yes," says the veteran, "I do indeed."
--"And do you utterly despair of recommending yourself to God by any thing that you can do; and look for salvation solely through the blood and righteousness of Christ?"
--"Yes, solely through Christ."
--"But, Sir, supposing you were first saved by Christ, are you not somehow or other to save yourself afterwards by your own works?"
--"No; I must be saved by Christ from first to last."
--"Allowing then that you were first turned by the grace of God, are you not in some way or other to keep yourself by your own power?"
--"No."
--"What then, are you to be upheld every hour and every moment by God, as much as an infant in its mother's arms?"
--"Yes; altogether."
--"And is all your hope in the grace and mercy of God to preserve you unto his heavenly kingdom?"
--"Yes; I have no hope, but in him."
--"Then, Sir, with your leave, I will put up my dagger again; for this is all my Calvinism; this is my election, my justification by faith, my final perseverance: it is, in substance, all that I hold, and as I hold it: and therefore, if you please, instead of searching out terms and phrases to be a ground of contention between us, we will cordially unite in those things wherein we agree."

 

[Dave G.]

It's not that you raised your hand in church, or that you accept the knowledge of Christ, though you need that too.. It's not even that you believe that Gospel. But there must be an application, IE,you must be changed. What is the change ? If you've received the Holy Spirit. And the evidence of the change is the 9 attributes of the Fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

The natural man, or unregenerated man, the guy not born again, tends to fail miserably in this. The born again man, this is a result, it becomes the new nature.

So you went to church, you fed the poor, you healed, looked the part of a Christian, but Jesus says to you, depart from me, I never knew you ! Let me ask, did you ever receive the Holy Spirit. Is the fruit listed as fruit of the Spirit ever enter you ? Tough question that requires an honest answer, not one out of pride. If you've received the Holy Spirit you are born again. If you are not born again you can not enter the gates of heaven. At least according to Jesus who stated such.

 

[Rapture Bound]

It's not that you raised your hand in church, or that you accept the knowledge of Christ, though you need that too.. It's not even that you believe that Gospel. But there must be an application, IE,you must be changed. What is the change ? If you've received the Holy Spirit. And the evidence of the change is the 9 attributes of the Fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

The natural man, or unregenerated man, the guy not born again, tends to fail miserably in this. The born again man, this is a result, it becomes the new nature.

So you went to church, you fed the poor, you healed, looked the part of a Christian, but Jesus says to you, depart from me, I never knew you ! Let me ask, did you ever receive the Holy Spirit. Is the fruit listed as fruit of the Spirit ever enter you ? Tough question that requires an honest answer, not one out of pride. If you've received the Holy Spirit you are born again. If you are not born again you can not enter the gates of heaven. At least according to Jesus who stated such.

Here's a video that touches upon much of what you stated. I basically agree with what is said in it ...apart from a couple of caveats - which I would re-word in a significantly different manner if it were my video.

 

[Rapture Bound]

It's not that you raised your hand in church, or that you accept the knowledge of Christ, though you need that too.. It's not even that you believe that Gospel. But there must be an application, IE,you must be changed. What is the change ? If you've received the Holy Spirit. And the evidence of the change is the 9 attributes of the Fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

The natural man, or unregenerated man, the guy not born again, tends to fail miserably in this. The born again man, this is a result, it becomes the new nature.

So you went to church, you fed the poor, you healed, looked the part of a Christian, but Jesus says to you, depart from me, I never knew you ! Let me ask, did you ever receive the Holy Spirit. Is the fruit listed as fruit of the Spirit ever enter you ? Tough question that requires an honest answer, not one out of pride. If you've received the Holy Spirit you are born again. If you are not born again you can not enter the gates of heaven. At least according to Jesus who stated such.

You said, "It's not even that you believe that Gospel. But there *must* be an application, IE, you must be changed."

Agreed, I prefer to express this reality like this : there *will* be an application ... there *will* be a transformation in the hearts and lives of *all* those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel 36:26-27 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." [KJV]. This is the greatest and most blessed miracle that a person could ever experience!...the miracle of the renewed heart ...a heart passing from death unto life.

 

[Dave G.]

You said, "It's not even that you believe that Gospel. But there *must* be an application, IE, you must be changed."

Agreed, I prefer to express this reality like this : there *will* be an application ... there *will* be a transformation in the hearts and lives of *all* those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit. Ezekiel 36:26-27 "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." [KJV]. This is the greatest and most blessed miracle that a person could ever experience!...the miracle of the renewed heart ...a heart passing from death unto life.

Ya I can accept that willingly, those are powerful words.. It's an action that happens to us. The must comes in, in that you should see this, experience this action. If it never happened where does that leave us ? I think in vein thought, is an answer.

I can speak for myself. I came to the knowledge of Christ quite young, maybe 7yo. But didn't believe He was needed for salvation, not really till I was 29 ( 1979). Confronted with true conviction of my sins, I couldn't bear that and turned to Jesus knowing the truth of the Gospel, eyes facing the ceiling in prayer to Him, I gave myself over. Something clearly happened inside of me. Within days, I freely started changing my ways, considering actions, seeking more Jesus. In time peace. Since then true love I never felt before. Non of this was the old me. I also received at least one gift , probably two. If not more that are of Him but I'm not aware He did it.

But we are not perfect either, the old man may have been slain but remnants seem to flow, Amen. Paul spoke of this about himself actually, where he does what he ought not and doesn't do what he ought to. I can relate to that.

One more thing about being truly born again, we fully know we aren't worthy. It's all God, thus Grace. Thank God His mercy is new every day ! Thank God for 1 Peter, at the same time thank God for 1 John, especially around that 9th verse. What a provision !

Thanks RB, for your activity here, it's been thought provoking this morning !