Bidenomics--Strict new EPA rules would force coal-fired power plants to capture emissions or shut down

[Valletta]

Rich Nolan, president and CEO of the National Mining Association, said that through the latest rules, “the EPA is systematically dismantling the reliability of the U.S. electric grid.’' He accused Biden, Regan and other officials of “ignoring our energy reality and forcing the closure of well-operating coal plants that repeatedly come to the rescue during times of peak demand. The repercussions of this reckless plan will be felt across the country by all Americans.”

Strict new EPA rules would force coal-fired power plants to capture emissions or shut down

Coal-fired power plants would be forced to capture smokestack emissions or shut down under a rule issued by the Environmental Protection Agency.

apnews.com

Instead of more power for our electric grid in order to handle EVs, Democrats are cutting back. That means your driving miles will have to be limited, and industry in the U.S. will also have to cut back on electricity.

 

[Pommer]

Rich Nolan, president and CEO of the National Mining Association, said that through the latest rules, “the EPA is systematically dismantling the reliability of the U.S. electric grid.’' He accused Biden, Regan and other officials of “ignoring our energy reality and forcing the closure of well-operating coal plants that repeatedly come to the rescue during times of peak demand. The repercussions of this reckless plan will be felt across the country by all Americans.”

Strict new EPA rules would force coal-fired power plants to capture emissions or shut down

Coal-fired power plants would be forced to capture smokestack emissions or shut down under a rule issued by the Environmental Protection Agency.

apnews.com

Instead of more power for our electric grid in order to handle EVs, Democrats are cutting back. That means your driving miles will have to be limited, and industry in the U.S. will also have to cut back on electricity.

A coal lobbyist is against the EPA regulating his industry?

 

[Valletta]

A coal lobbyist is against the EPA regulating his industry?

Our country already leads the world in reducing fossil fuel related carbon emissions. People are against a dictator shutting down any industry he so chooses.

 

[AlexB23]

Rich Nolan, president and CEO of the National Mining Association, said that through the latest rules, “the EPA is systematically dismantling the reliability of the U.S. electric grid.’' He accused Biden, Regan and other officials of “ignoring our energy reality and forcing the closure of well-operating coal plants that repeatedly come to the rescue during times of peak demand. The repercussions of this reckless plan will be felt across the country by all Americans.”

Strict new EPA rules would force coal-fired power plants to capture emissions or shut down

Coal-fired power plants would be forced to capture smokestack emissions or shut down under a rule issued by the Environmental Protection Agency.

apnews.com

Instead of more power for our electric grid in order to handle EVs, Democrats are cutting back. That means your driving miles will have to be limited, and industry in the U.S. will also have to cut back on electricity.

Straight from the AP article: "Coal ash contains cancer-causing substances like arsenic and mercury that can leach into the ground, drinking water and nearby rivers and streams, harming people and killing fish." If one loves America (or people in general), it would be beneficial to care for the health of our citizens.

So yes, coal plants need to capture the emissions somehow, and particulates. A good stop-gap technology before switching to 100% renewables would be natural gas, as natural gas emits less particulates. This long paper explains why natural gas is less harmful compared to coal, and simulated a hypothetical switch in 2016 of all coal plants to natural gas: Carnegie Mellon Electricity Industry Center Working Paper CEIC-15-02 (the authors do not want the paper linked, or even quoted without their permission, so you will have to paste this into Google)

Edited because the authors of CEIC-15-02 paper on natural gas say their paper can not be cited or quotes.

 

[AlexB23]

Oops, the paper on natural gas plants says "do not cite or quote without the permissions of the author". I had remove the link from my previous post, but I thought three sentences was fair usage.

But here is the article name that one can paste into Google: Carnegie Mellon Electricity Industry Center Working Paper CEIC-15-02

 

[Valletta]

Straight from the AP article: "Coal ash contains cancer-causing substances like arsenic and mercury that can leach into the ground, drinking water and nearby rivers and streams, harming people and killing fish." If one loves America (or people in general), it would be beneficial to care for the health of our citizens.

So yes, coal plants need to capture the emissions somehow, and particulates. A good stop-gap technology before switching to 100% renewables would be natural gas, as natural gas emits less particulates. This long paper explains why natural gas is less harmful compared to coal, and simulated a hypothetical switch in 2016 of all coal plants to natural gas: Carnegie Mellon Electricity Industry Center Working Paper CEIC-15-02 (the authors do not want the paper linked, or even quoted without their permission, so you will have to paste this into Google)

Edited because the authors of CEIC-15-02 paper on natural gas say their paper can not be cited or quotes.

There are not many science majors among journalists. They mention it because it is almost a religion to be against fossil fuels. In fact mercury is a common substance, it could always leach into water sources. There's a lot of mercury in oceans and much produced by fires and volcanoes, very small amounts from coal.

 

[AlexB23]

There are not many science majors among journalists. They mention it because it is almost a religion to be against fossil fuels. In fact mercury is a common substance, it could always leach into water sources. There's a lot of mercury in oceans and much produced by fires and volcanoes, very small amounts from coal.

Yeah, but at the same time, the Bible talks about stewardship, and gives us a warning. So, I try to reduce my energy usage (within reason). But hey, this is a politics thread, not a Bible study. The study below is dated April 21, cos that is when I made it.

Isaiah 24:4-6 (ESV): "The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left."

Date	April 21, 2024
Verse	Genesis 2:15: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." Isaiah 24:4-6: "The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left." Jeremiah 2:7: "I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable."
Explanation	These verses from the Bible, Genesis 2:15, Jeremiah 2:7, and Isaiah 24:4-6, speak to the relationship between humanity and the Earth, highlighting our role as stewards and the consequences of disobedience and neglect. Genesis 2:15 sets the stage for God placing Adam in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it, indicating a divine mandate for humans to tend to the Earth. This responsibility extends beyond just working the land but also involves taking good care of it. Jeremiah 2:7 emphasizes God's provision of a fertile land for His people to enjoy its fruit and rich produce, but they defiled it instead. This verse serves as a reminder that we are not the owners of the Earth but rather caretakers, and our actions have consequences on the land and future generations. Isaiah 24:4-6 speaks of the Earth being defiled by its people due to their disobedience and violation of divine laws. The passage suggests a curse upon the Earth, leading to scarcity and destruction. This verse relates to modern issues such as anthropogenic global warming and pollution in that human actions are causing detrimental effects on the Earth, ultimately affecting its ability to sustain life as intended.
Life Anecdote	In the context of our modern world, these verses call us to be good stewards of the Earth and apply biblical principles to mitigate environmental degradation. Here are some ways we can apply these verses to our lives in 2024: 1. Cultivate a mindset of care and respect for the Earth as God's creation, acknowledging our responsibility to tend to it. 2. Reduce our carbon footprint by using renewable energy sources such as wind and solar and adopting ecological practices in daily life (ex. composting, using energy efficient LED bulbs, riding a bike to the store, driving small fuel-efficient Japanese hybrids/crossovers). 3. Support and advocate for environmentally sustainable policies, including reducing plastic use, promoting recycling, investing in public transport & mixed-use urban developments, and minimizing waste. 4. Practice conservation by preserving natural resources and protecting habitats for various species. 5. Educate ourselves and others about the importance of caring for the Earth as a moral imperative, rather than just an environmental concern. 6. Pray for God's guidance in our efforts to be good stewards of the Earth and ask for His help in overcoming challenges related to caring for creation.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Our country already leads the world in reducing fossil fuel related carbon emissions. People are against a dictator shutting down any industry he so chooses.

He's not shutting them down. He's making them clean up after themselves. If that's not fascism, I don't know what is.

 

[Desk trauma]

Good.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The "Similar Threads" section at the bottom of the page reminded me of this thread I started a few years ago:

EPA's New Coal Pollution Rules: More Death, More Asthma

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/climate/epa-coal-pollution-deaths.html WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Tuesday made public the details of its new pollution rules governing coal-burning power plants, and the fine print includes an acknowledgment that the plan would increase carbon...

www.christianforums.com

Trump's coal plant rule would've resulted in up to 1400 additional deaths. Maybe Biden is the real pro-life president.

 

[AlexB23]

Good.

Yes, it is good that coal plants are getting harsher regulations and cleaned up, cos it is high time that we can enjoy cleaner air in our country.

 

[AlexB23]

The "Similar Threads" section at the bottom of the page reminded me of this thread I started a few years ago:

EPA's New Coal Pollution Rules: More Death, More Asthma

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/climate/epa-coal-pollution-deaths.html WASHINGTON — The Trump administration on Tuesday made public the details of its new pollution rules governing coal-burning power plants, and the fine print includes an acknowledgment that the plan would increase carbon...

www.christianforums.com

Trump's coal plant rule would've resulted in up to 1400 additional deaths. Maybe Biden is the real pro-life president.

Well, I wouldn't go so far to say that any president is fully pro-life (look at all the wars we fund/partake in, both the left and right have funded wars), but shutting down the coal plants is better for our health, and will save countless lives. Coal should have been banned decades ago.

Wars: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2A22QR/

 

[Pommer]

Yeah, but at the same time, the Bible talks about stewardship, and gives us a warning. So, I try to reduce my energy usage (within reason). But hey, this is a politics thread, not a Bible study. The study below is dated April 21, cos that is when I made it.

Isaiah 24:4-6 (ESV): "The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left."

Date	April 21, 2024
Verse	Genesis 2:15: "The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." Isaiah 24:4-6: "The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left." Jeremiah 2:7: "I brought you into a fertile land to eat its fruit and rich produce. But you came and defiled my land and made my inheritance detestable."
Explanation	These verses from the Bible, Genesis 2:15, Jeremiah 2:7, and Isaiah 24:4-6, speak to the relationship between humanity and the Earth, highlighting our role as stewards and the consequences of disobedience and neglect. Genesis 2:15 sets the stage for God placing Adam in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it, indicating a divine mandate for humans to tend to the Earth. This responsibility extends beyond just working the land but also involves taking good care of it. Jeremiah 2:7 emphasizes God's provision of a fertile land for His people to enjoy its fruit and rich produce, but they defiled it instead. This verse serves as a reminder that we are not the owners of the Earth but rather caretakers, and our actions have consequences on the land and future generations. Isaiah 24:4-6 speaks of the Earth being defiled by its people due to their disobedience and violation of divine laws. The passage suggests a curse upon the Earth, leading to scarcity and destruction. This verse relates to modern issues such as anthropogenic global warming and pollution in that human actions are causing detrimental effects on the Earth, ultimately affecting its ability to sustain life as intended.
Life Anecdote	In the context of our modern world, these verses call us to be good stewards of the Earth and apply biblical principles to mitigate environmental degradation. Here are some ways we can apply these verses to our lives in 2024: 1. Cultivate a mindset of care and respect for the Earth as God's creation, acknowledging our responsibility to tend to it. 2. Reduce our carbon footprint by using renewable energy sources such as wind and solar and adopting ecological practices in daily life (ex. composting, using energy efficient LED bulbs, riding a bike to the store, driving small fuel-efficient Japanese hybrids/crossovers). 3. Support and advocate for environmentally sustainable policies, including reducing plastic use, promoting recycling, investing in public transport & mixed-use urban developments, and minimizing waste. 4. Practice conservation by preserving natural resources and protecting habitats for various species. 5. Educate ourselves and others about the importance of caring for the Earth as a moral imperative, rather than just an environmental concern. 6. Pray for God's guidance in our efforts to be good stewards of the Earth and ask for His help in overcoming challenges related to caring for creation.

Revelation (11, I think) speaks of a “new heavens and a new Earth”, wouldn’t it be tantamount to a sin to not use the old Earth up completely?

 

[AlexB23]

Revelation (11, I think) speaks of a “new heavens and a new Earth”, wouldn’t it be tantamount to a sin to not use the old Earth up completely?

Haha, good one. But, I was using Isaiah as a warning, as Valletta is a Christian as I am. We must show respect to the Earth we currently live on, and @Valletta does not seem to be heeding the warning about defiling the Earth in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we should rape the Earth for corporate gain.

It is surprising that Christians would kowtow to Big Oil and Coal companies, instead of protecting the health of our neighbors and our planet.

 

[Bradskii]

Rich Nolan, president and CEO of the National Mining Association, said that through the latest rules, “the EPA is systematically dismantling the reliability of the U.S. electric grid.’' He accused Biden, Regan and other officials of “ignoring our energy reality and forcing the closure of well-operating coal plants that repeatedly come to the rescue during times of peak demand. The repercussions of this reckless plan will be felt across the country by all Americans.”

Strict new EPA rules would force coal-fired power plants to capture emissions or shut down

Coal-fired power plants would be forced to capture smokestack emissions or shut down under a rule issued by the Environmental Protection Agency.

apnews.com

Instead of more power for our electric grid in order to handle EVs, Democrats are cutting back. That means your driving miles will have to be limited, and industry in the U.S. will also have to cut back on electricity.

No doubt that if the EPA said 'We have no interest in ensuring that measures to reduce toxic wastewater pollutants from coal-fired plants and to safely manage coal ash in unlined storage ponds are taken' then you'd have started a thread complaining about that.

And I am absolutely certain that if you had been asked if you thought it was a good idea or not prior to you reading that article then you would have needed to check to see who put forward the policy before you answered. And you need to realise that everyone knows that.

 

[AlexB23]

No doubt that if the EPA said 'We have no interest in ensuring that measures to reduce toxic wastewater pollutants from coal-fired plants and to safely manage coal ash in unlined storage ponds are taken' then you'd have started a thread complaining about that.

And I am absolutely certain that if you had been asked if you thought it was a good idea or not prior to you reading that article then you would have needed to check to see who put forward the policy before you answered. And you need to realise that everyone knows that.

I do not think that @Valletta actually read the article, cos the article mentions how coal has toxins. Big Oil, or should I say fossil fuel companies in general have bought out America sadly.

Each year, the oil and gas industry spend over $100M on lobbying in the US alone. The coal mining industry spent nearly $4M on lobbying in 2023.

Graph from: Oil and gas industry spent $124.4 million on federal lobbying amid record profits in 2022 - OpenSecrets News

 

[Valletta]

I do not think that @Valletta actually read the article, cos the article mentions how coal has toxins. Big Oil, or should I say fossil fuel companies in general have bought out America sadly.

Each year, the oil and gas industry spend over $100M on lobbying in the US alone. The coal mining industry spent nearly $4M on lobbying in 2023.

Graph from: Oil and gas industry spent $124.4 million on federal lobbying amid record profits in 2022 - OpenSecrets News

View attachment 346608

First, I don't believe everything in every article I post--I post the articles for discussions. Just about everything has toxins, look at the labels from California. It is monomethylmercury that is of harm to humans if consumed, and extremely little comes from the coal industry. I have posted before about what goes into making a battery for these EVs, both the huge environmental impact and the almost slave labor involved. I have seen few from the left who seem to care. So many people get swept up the green movement which has very much been co-opted by the radical left. There is nothing inherently wrong with the the natural fossil fuels that God has provided to our world. To truly understand the situation you need to look at how much effort by the leaders of the movement is being put into forcing the Chinese to meet environmental standards, because according to the predictions of these leaders we won't have much of the earth left without China complying. Have John Kerry and Joe Biden been out there denouncing China and India or are they going after the United States? Now you're switching to money, and you bring up the 124.4 million by the entire oil and gas industry. In Biden's last move alone, 623 million of taxpayer money(see the below article from PBS) including taxes paid by the oil and gas industry, was used to promote EVs. That's from ONE move by Joe, quite a financial windfall for some already wealthy Democrats who invest in those companies! The many American stockholders who own fossil fuel companies in their portfolios expect some lobbying against the iron hand of the Biden administration, many see the green movement for what is really is. Now LNG is a great choice, Europe has accepted this but Joe and the hard left are attacking LNG. This and the rest of Bidenomics if not stopped could bring America economically to its knees.

Biden administration awards $623 million in grants to build out electric vehicle charging network

Congress approved $7.5 billion in the 2021 infrastructure law to build out a national network of 500,000 publicly available chargers by 2030.

www.pbs.org

 

[Fantine]

: ×××$@@!!×Our country already leads the world in reducing fossil fuel related carbon emissions. People are against a dictator shutting down any industry he so chooses.

That sounds like a real whopper, but I am sure you have just heard information from a really bad source.

There are not many science majors among journalists. They mention it because it is almost a religion to be against fossil fuels. In fact mercury is a common substance, it could always leach into water sources. There's a lot of mercury in oceans and much produced by fires and volcanoes, very small amounts from coal.

Yes, that's why fresh tuna and swordfish can be dangerous to eat--the mercury in their habitat.

 

[Valletta]

That sounds like a real whopper, but I am sure you have just heard information from a really bad source.

Yes, that's why fresh tuna and swordfish can be dangerous to eat--the mercury in their habitat.

Yes, I eat a lot of salmon and sardines. It is best to be aware that the larger older fish typically contain much more mercury.

 

[Bradskii]

First, I don't believe everything in every article I post--I post the articles for discussions.

Now I've got red wine all over my screen. Excuse me while I get something to clean it up...