Biblical Evidence For 31 AD Crucifixion

[EclipseEventSigns]

I have no desire to continue discussing here. Some people have decided to cause trouble and this is no longer an enjoyable experience.

 

[cfposter]

I have no desire to continue discussing here. Some people have decided to cause trouble and this is no longer an enjoyable experience.

Yep np. I think when others look at the timeline closely they will see the glaring problem with it.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Yep np. I think when others look at the timeline closely they will see the glaring problem with it.

No. The glaring problem is with the people who have commented without actually studying the material. Usually a proper discussion flows from examining the material first before giving opinions.

 

[cfposter]

To the others reading the thread -

I want to mention that nowhere does the Bible say that Abib is when the Barley is brown or dry and brittle. If you notice the Barley is to be young barley. The Barley is to be dried in the fire, and simply needs to fill the ear. But obviously it must be past the milky state but not the dry state. And once it has filled the ear, it is ready to be waved at firstfruits.

Aviv from Brown-Driver Briggs:

H24
אביב
'âbı̂yb
BDB Definition:
1) fresh, young barley ears, barley
2) month of ear-forming, of greening of crop, of growing green Abib, month of exodus and passover (March or April)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from an unused root (meaning to be tender)

For those reading this, don't listen to these other requirements imposed by men. Listen to your Bible.

Lev 2:14 But if thou offer a gift of the firstfruits of thy corn to the Lord, of the ears yet green, thou shalt dry it at the fire, and break it small like meal; and so shalt thou offer thy firstfruits to the Lord:

This video here explains AVIV state very well. I do have some disagreements with the this from the Equinox perspective but believe it describes it well the Aviv state of the Barley:

 

[Deborah~]

The Passover was killed in the afternoon on the 14th day. The Jewish understanding of “evening” is the time following noon, as the sun begins to descend towards the western horizon. There is a ton of corroborating information on when this occurred. No one ate the Passover on the 13th. No one.

Historically accurate. The Mishnah lays out the timing of the sacrifice of the Passover.

Every day there were two "Tamid," a morning sacrifice and an evening (what we call afternoon) sacrifice. Normally, the evening sacrifice was slaughtered at 2:30 p.m. and offered at 3:30 p.m. ("between the evenings"). However, on the Passover, on the afternoon of Nisan 14, the evening daily was moved up an hour and was slaughtered at 1:30 and offered at 2:30 and the Passover sacrifices began at 2:30 until 5:00 unless it was a Friday when the evening sacrifice was slaughtered at 12:30 and offered at 1:30 and the Passover sacrifices began at 1:30 and continued until 5:00 p.m., stopping early enough to allow time for the lambs to be roasted in preparation for the feast that evening. That evening, at the close of Nisan 14 and the beginning of Nisan 15, the Passover lambs were eaten after eating the first hagigah with unleavened bread and other foods on the first day of the feast. This was the "last supper" eaten by Jesus and the disciples, he was arrested that night and crucified the next day, on Nisan 15. And each evening, just at sunset, unleavened bread was eaten along with portions of the various sacrifices and offerings that were made that day until the final night of the feast on Nisan 21. (Mishnah 58A) There is also Gemara on the timing of the Passover sacrifice along with an explanation of what it means "bein albayim," (between the evenings): "the period from when the day begins progressing toward the evening," i.e. when the sun passes the meridian (noon) and begins to "go down," i.e. decline in the sky until sunset. The Hebrew word translated "evening" means afternoon.

There is a slew of commentary and opinions offered by a parade of people about how the Passover "should have been observed." Whether they are correct or not is purely a matter of theology. But for historical purposes, it's not how someone believes or how they have calculated or how they have determined the Passover "should have been observed" that dictates the timing of these last hours of Jesus' passion, but rather the question is how in fact did 2nd Temple Jews actually observe the Passover during the New Testament period, because that is what determines how these final hours actually played out.

In Christ,
Deborah

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Historically accurate. The Mishnah lays out the timing of the sacrifice of the Passover.

Every day there were two "Tamid," a morning sacrifice and an evening (what we call afternoon) sacrifice. Normally, the evening sacrifice was slaughtered at 2:30 p.m. and offered at 3:30 p.m. ("between the evenings"). However, on the Passover, on the afternoon of Nisan 14, the evening daily was moved up and slaughtered at 12:30 and offered at 1:30 and the Passover sacrifices began at 1:30 and continued until 5:00 p.m., stopping early enough to allow time for the lambs to be roasted in preparation for the feast that evening. That evening, at the close of Nisan 14 and the beginning of Nisan 15, the Passover lambs were eaten after eating the first hagigah with unleavened bread and other foods on the first day of the feast. This was the "last supper" eaten by Jesus and the disciples, he was arrested that night and crucified the next day, on Nisan 15. And each evening, just at sunset, unleavened bread was eaten along with portions of the various sacrifices and offerings that were made that day until the final night of the feast on Nisan 21. (Mishnah 58A) There is also Gemara on the timing of the Passover sacrifice along with an explanation of what it means "bein albayim," (between the evenings): "the period from when the day begins progressing toward the evening," i.e. when the sun passes the meridian (noon) and begins to "go down," i.e. decline in the sky until sunset. The Hebrew word translated "evening" means afternoon.

There is a slew of commentary and opinions offered by a parade of people about how the Passover "should have been observed." Whether they are correct or not is purely a matter of theology. But for historical purposes, it's not how someone believes or how they have calculated or how they have determined the Passover "should have been observed" that dictates the timing of these last hours of Jesus' passion, but rather the question is how in fact did 2nd Temple Jews actually observe the Passover during the New Testament period, because that is what determines how these final hours actually played out.

In Christ,
Deborah

Your statements are simply inaccurate and not true. Factually incorrect. You failed to take into account the VERY important information contained within the Mishna where the offering times varied depending if it was the day before Passover or if it was on a Friday. According to the Mishna, the time that Jesus died was EXACTLY at the time that the offering was slaughtered on the day before Passover which was NOT on a Friday. This is evidence that the crucifixion happened on a Wednesday which WAS Nisan 14. This is exactly why the time that Jesus died was included in the biblical narrative.

To be clear, misinformation like you continually state needs to corrected. But you refuse to accept correction so I will not get into arguments. Just know that you are stating misinformation.

 

[cfposter]

These postponement rules were not in place during the Crucifixion. We know this because Philo makes it clear that the Sabbaths were still done per the phases of the moon and he was a contemporary of the time of Christ.

 

[Deborah~]

Your statements are simply inaccurate and not true. Factually incorrect. You failed to take into account the VERY important information contained within the Mishna where the offering times varied depending if it was the day before Passover or if it was on a Friday. According to the Mishna, the time that Jesus died was EXACTLY at the time that the offering was slaughtered on the day before Passover which was NOT on a Friday. This is evidence that the crucifixion happened on a Wednesday which WAS Nisan 14. This is exactly why the time that Jesus died was included in the biblical narrative.

To be clear, misinformation like you continually state needs to corrected. But you refuse to accept correction so I will not get into arguments. Just know that you are stating misinformation.

View attachment 346986

No my friend, it is not I who has erred. The Jews reckoned time differently than we do. The "seventh," "eighth," and "ninth" hours do not refer to 7:00, 8:00, and 9:00 a.m. They refer to the 7th, 8th, and 9th hours of the day which began at sunrise, or 6:00 a.m. Thus, 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. was the first hour, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. the second hour, and so forth.

By Jewish reckoning, the "eighth hour" was actually 1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. and half past the eighth hour would be 2:30 p.m. So on regular days the Tamid, the evening sacrifice, was slaughtered at 2:30 p.m.(8 1/2 hours after sunrise) and offered at 3:30 p.m. (9 1/2 hours after sunrise). On Nisan 14, when multiplied thousands of Passover lambs had to be slaughtered, the evening daily sacrifice was moved up an hour, slaughtered at 1:30 p.m. and offered at 2:30 p.m. And if Nisan 14 fell on a Friday, the Preparation Day, it was moved up another hour, 12:30 and 1:30 respectively.

In the year of the Lord's Passion, the Passover sacrifice (Nisan 14) did not occur on the Preparation Day (a Friday) but on a Thursday. Jesus was crucified the next day, on the Preparation (Friday) of this Passover week. This week-long festival would always have at least one Saturday (the weekly Sabbath) and one Friday (the Preparation Day) that would fall on one of the days of this festival. That particular year, the Passover sacrifice on the afternoon of Nisan 14 fell on a Thursday, the Passover and Unleavened Bread were eaten that evening (still Thursday but now Nisan 15) and Jesus was crucified the next day (Friday, the Preparation, still Nisan 15)

And it has been pointed out to you time and time and time again, that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all bear eyewitness testimony in the Gospels that Jesus and his disciples "ate the Passover." The Passover lambs were slain on the afternoon of Nisan 14, and they were eaten that evening, at the close of Nisan 14 and the beginning of Nisan 15, which was the first day of Unleavened Bread. Many students make the mistake of assuming that the Passover was eaten on Nisan 14 and the first meal of Unleavened Bread was eaten on Nisan 15. But that's not the case. The Passover was slaughtered on the afternoon of Nisan 14, and was eaten that evening, which was the beginning of Nisan 15, along with the first meal of unleavened bread. The Passover meal and the first meal of unleavened bread was the same meal. They were not two separate meals.

The next day, after eating the Passover and Unleavened Bread on the evening that was the beginning of Nisan 15, the next day, still Nisan 15, Jesus was crucified.

To verify the hours when the sacrifice was offered, here is a snip from the Mishnah and a link so you can verify this information for yourself. You will notice that the hours are the afternoon hours, which according to Jewish reckoning was the 7th - 12th hours of the day, or 12:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.

And another snip of how the Jews understood the term "between the evenings." They divided the afternoon into two, the first evening was 2 1/2 hours (from 12:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.) and the second half was 2 1/2 hours (from 3:30 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.). That left one hour, from 2:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. available for the regular evening sacrifice. This rule also held true for the red heifer and two goats for the Atonement sacrifice, which likewise was sacrificed "between the evenings," that is, from 2:30 p.m. - 3:30 p.m.

As I have pointed out, it really doesn't matter when or how we think the Passover should have been observed based on how we interpret the Law or some prophecy (which could be theologically correct, maybe the Jews got it wrong, maybe not, that's another whole subject). What matters when investigating the history of how these things played out in these last hours is how did the Jews actually interpret all this and how did they historically observe the Passover.

Mishnah Tractate "Pesachim" There are tractates that concern each of the Seder Moed (holidays or festivals) and the one that concerns the Passover is "Pesachim." Please scroll down to 58a of this tractate.

In Christ,
Deborah

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

No my friend, it is not I who has erred. The Jews reckoned time differently than we do. The "seventh," "eighth," and "ninth" hours do not refer to 7:00, 8:00, and 9:00 a.m. They refer to the 7th, 8th, and 9th hours of the day which began at sunrise, or 6:00 a.m. Thus, 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. was the first hour, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. the second hour, and so forth.
...snip....

Again, you write so much stuff and yet miss the important points and pull out details which do not matter. I quoted you from the MIshna itself. Actually the very same thing you quote back at me. You aren't even reading my posts which is SUPER disrespectful and shows you are just here to bully people with your own opinions. And yet you do not even acknowledge the information which specifically contradicts your claims. You are stating falsehoods. Its so obvious if anyone does any simple research.

 

[cfposter]

I don't place a lot of credit in the Mishnah as it often has conflicting comments and directives. It is also hard to know when some of the listed things went into affect. For example, there appears to be references to postponements but previously there wasn't postponements. Then later with Hillel II postponements become the norm ever since. Obviously, when the Jews were observing their Sabbaths according to the Lunar Weeks instead of the fixed calendar they had no need for any those things as it was far more efficient. But the Romans disallowed it.

 

[cfposter]

Also, my understanding of Between the Evening is that it is the space form which the Sun no longer claim the land by shadow (meaning it is setting and now a shadow is not cast on the ground). Therefore, it that short time from when the shadows no longer are cast to the point upon which the sun has set and the stars are visible. This would be the time also at which Christ would be Killed and the passover lambs. It would also be the time at which they light the Menorah.

 

[cfposter]

As for the hours of the day. I'm still considering that they may have been using a time piece similar to the Enoch Calendar as I believe they were essentially keeping that calendar at the time of the Lord's Crucifixion. In that calendar, the most hours you can ever have would be 12 hours in a Day. Those hours are not divided into 60 minutes as we have today. But each hour would likely be equivalent to our 80 minutes today. In the Enoch calendar they are called parts. So during the Equinox you have equal 9 to 9 parts (sunshine to darkness). But each 30 days till summer it would advance by 1 part. Therefore, summer is 12 to 6 parts. The equinoxes 9 to 9 parts and Winter 6 to 12 parts. This system is excellent as anyone knowing the time could know the month and season easily. This would take a more ancient and unique sundial. There may have been two systems in place during that time.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

No my friend, it is not I who has erred. The Jews reckoned time differently than we do. The "seventh," "eighth," and "ninth" hours do not refer to 7:00, 8:00, and 9:00 a.m. They refer to the 7th, 8th, and 9th hours of the day which began at sunrise, or 6:00 a.m. Thus, 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. was the first hour, 7:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. the second hour, and so forth.

By Jewish reckoning, the "eighth hour" was actually 1:00 p.m. to 2:00 p.m. and half past the eighth hour would be 2:30 p.m. So on regular days the Tamid, the evening sacrifice, was slaughtered at 2:30 p.m.(8 1/2 hours after sunrise) and offered at 3:30 p.m. (9 1/2 hours after sunrise). On Nisan 14, when multiplied thousands of Passover lambs had to be slaughtered, the evening daily sacrifice was moved up an hour, slaughtered at 1:30 p.m. and offered at 2:30 p.m. And if Nisan 14 fell on a Friday, the Preparation Day, it was moved up another hour, 12:30 and 1:30 respectively.

In the year of the Lord's Passion, the Passover sacrifice (Nisan 14) did not occur on the Preparation Day (a Friday) but on a Thursday. Jesus was crucified the next day, on the Preparation (Friday) of this Passover week. This week-long festival would always have at least one Saturday (the weekly Sabbath) and one Friday (the Preparation Day) that would fall on one of the days of this festival. That particular year, the Passover sacrifice on the afternoon of Nisan 14 fell on a Thursday, the Passover and Unleavened Bread were eaten that evening (still Thursday but now Nisan 15) and Jesus was crucified the next day (Friday, the Preparation, still Nisan 15)

And it has been pointed out to you time and time and time again, that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all bear eyewitness testimony in the Gospels that Jesus and his disciples "ate the Passover." The Passover lambs were slain on the afternoon of Nisan 14, and they were eaten that evening, at the close of Nisan 14 and the beginning of Nisan 15, which was the first day of Unleavened Bread. Many students make the mistake of assuming that the Passover was eaten on Nisan 14 and the first meal of Unleavened Bread was eaten on Nisan 15. But that's not the case. The Passover was slaughtered on the afternoon of Nisan 14, and was eaten that evening, which was the beginning of Nisan 15, along with the first meal of unleavened bread. The Passover meal and the first meal of unleavened bread was the same meal. They were not two separate meals.

The next day, after eating the Passover and Unleavened Bread on the evening that was the beginning of Nisan 15, the next day, still Nisan 15, Jesus was crucified.

To verify the hours when the sacrifice was offered, here is a snip from the Mishnah and a link so you can verify this information for yourself. You will notice that the hours are the afternoon hours, which according to Jewish reckoning was the 7th - 12th hours of the day, or 12:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.

View attachment 347049
And another snip of how the Jews understood the term "between the evenings." They divided the afternoon into two, the first evening was 2 1/2 hours (from 12:00 p.m. to 2:30 p.m.) and the second half was 2 1/2 hours (from 3:30 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.). That left one hour, from 2:30 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. available for the regular evening sacrifice. This rule also held true for the red heifer and two goats for the Atonement sacrifice, which likewise was sacrificed "between the evenings," that is, from 2:30 p.m. - 3:30 p.m.

View attachment 347050
As I have pointed out, it really doesn't matter when or how we think the Passover should have been observed based on how we interpret the Law or some prophecy (which could be theologically correct, maybe the Jews got it wrong, maybe not, that's another whole subject). What matters when investigating the history of how these things played out in these last hours is how did the Jews actually interpret all this and how did they historically observe the Passover.

Mishnah Tractate "Pesachim" There are tractates that concern each of the Seder Moed (holidays or festivals) and the one that concerns the Passover is "Pesachim." Please scroll down to 58a of this tractate.

In Christ,
Deborah

All of these subjects are dealt with in depth in my material. That you haven't even bothered or been willing to watch it is VERY disrespectful. Especially since that is the whole point of this thread. It is not for you to bully people into your opinions. It is to discuss the material and proofs that I have discovered and have freely shared.

 

[cfposter]

From the

Didascalia Apostolorum: (emphasis mine)​

...
But by reason of the multitudes of all the people, from every city and from all the villages, who were coming up to the temple to keep the Passover in Jerusalem, the priests and elders took counsel and commanded and appointed that they should keep the festival straightway, that they might seize Him without disturbance. For the inhabitants of Jerusalem were engaged with the sacrifice and the eating of the Passover; and moreover, all the people that were without were not yet come, for they had deceived them as to the days. That they might be convicted before God of erring utterly in all things, therefore they anticipated the Passover by three days, and kept it on the eleventh of the moon, on the third day of the week. For they said: 'Because the whole people is gone astray after Him, now that we have an occasion let us seize Him; and then, when all the people are come, let us put Him to death before all, that this may be known openly, and all the people may turn back from after Him.'

And so in the night when the fourth day of the week drew on, (Judas) betrayed our Lord to them. But they made the payment to Judas on the tenth of the month, on the second day of the week; wherefore they were accounted by God as though on the second day of the week they had seized Him, [[189]] because on the second of the week they had taken counsel to seize Him and put Him to death; and they accomplished their malice on the Friday: as Moses had said concerning the Passover, thus: It shall be kept by you (p. 93) from the tenth until the fourteenth: and then all Israel shall sacrifice the passover [Ex 12.6].

(Note - don't let the word "Friday" above confuse to think it was the solar day of Friday. This word was often interpreted from the meaning of the preparation day to "friday")

(Note2 - notice the days of the week and how they correspond to the Month. Remember, the Sabbaths were based on the Moon. The new moon was no light and was the 1st day of the month. The 2nd day of the month was the FIRST Sliver of light. Therefore, day 2 of the month was day 1 of the first week. This means that Days 8, 15, 22 and 29 of the month were all Sabbath Days. There, you can see that the 15th which is the Feast is a Sabbath day also meaning a High Day. Look above and you will see that the 10th day of the month is actually the 2nd day of the week. See how it all fits).

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

From the

Didascalia Apostolorum: (emphasis mine)​

...
But by reason of the multitudes of all the people, from every city and from all the villages, who were coming up to the temple to keep the Passover in Jerusalem, the priests and elders took counsel and commanded and appointed that they should keep the festival straightway, that they might seize Him without disturbance. For the inhabitants of Jerusalem were engaged with the sacrifice and the eating of the Passover; and moreover, all the people that were without were not yet come, for they had deceived them as to the days. That they might be convicted before God of erring utterly in all things, therefore they anticipated the Passover by three days, and kept it on the eleventh of the moon, on the third day of the week. For they said: 'Because the whole people is gone astray after Him, now that we have an occasion let us seize Him; and then, when all the people are come, let us put Him to death before all, that this may be known openly, and all the people may turn back from after Him.'

And so in the night when the fourth day of the week drew on, (Judas) betrayed our Lord to them. But they made the payment to Judas on the tenth of the month, on the second day of the week; wherefore they were accounted by God as though on the second day of the week they had seized Him, [[189]] because on the second of the week they had taken counsel to seize Him and put Him to death; and they accomplished their malice on the Friday: as Moses had said concerning the Passover, thus: It shall be kept by you (p. 93) from the tenth until the fourteenth: and then all Israel shall sacrifice the passover [Ex 12.6].

(Note - don't let the word "Friday" above confuse to think it was the solar day of Friday. This word was often interpreted from the meaning of the preparation day to "friday")

(Note2 - notice the days of the week and how they correspond to the Month. Remember, the Sabbaths were based on the Moon. The new moon was no light and was the 1st day of the month. The 2nd day of the month was the FIRST Sliver of light. Therefore, day 2 of the month was day 1 of the first week. This means that Days 8, 15, 22 and 29 of the month were all Sabbath Days. There, you can see that the 15th which is the Feast is a Sabbath day also meaning a High Day. Look above and you will see that the 10th day of the month is actually the 2nd day of the week. See how it all fits).

This is NOT correct. It does not match the mathematics and proof of what April 25, 31 AD actually occurred.

 

[cfposter]

BTW, I believe the Didascalia Apostolorum should be one of the most venerated documents outside the Bible.

​

 

[cfposter]

Also, Jesus fulfilled the 490th year of Daniels 70 weeks in 31 AD during that Crucifixion. As you all may be aware, 490 years is 10 Jubilees exactly. And we know that each shall end on a 7th year. This means that the year that Jesus was crucified was a Sabbatical year. This is also born out. For if you go back 490 years you come to 460 BC which is when the Jews returned from captivity to Jerusalem. This was after the Jews were captive for 70 years. Let's understand that the Jews were taken captive and Jerusalem destroyed in the reign of Zedekiah in Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year which was in 530 BC. The divided Kingdom proceeded that for 390 years. And before that was the 40 years of Solomon. Solomon dedicated the Temple in the 60th Jubilee in 950 BC. In 1440 BC was the 50 Jubilee and the one in which Joshua crossed the Jordan. In 1479 BC was the drowning of the Thutmose II in the Red Sea during the Exodus. And in 1910 BC was the birth of Isaac. He would be offered up by Abraham 30 years later - 400 years before the Exodus. You see if you continue back you will come to the beginning of the days of Adam at 3890 BC.

So our Lord was crucified in the last year in the 7th week (of years) of the 79th Jubilee cycle. This means that when the following 7th month came, the Apostles would be met with the 80th Jubilee.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Also, Jesus fulfilled the 490th year of Daniels 70 weeks in 31 AD during that Crucifixion. As you all may be aware, 490 years is 10 Jubilees exactly. And we know that each shall end on a 7th year. This means that the year that Jesus was crucified was a Sabbatical year. This is also born out. For if you go back 490 years you come to 460 BC which is when the Jews returned from captivity to Jerusalem. This was after the Jews were captive for 70 years. Let's understand that the Jews were taken captive and Jerusalem destroyed in the reign of Zedekiah in Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year which was in 530 BC. The divided Kingdom proceeded that for 390 years. And before that was the 40 years of Solomon. Solomon dedicated the Temple in the 60th Jubilee in 950 BC. In 1440 BC was the 50 Jubilee and the one in which Joshua crossed the Jordan. In 1479 BC was the drowning of the Thutmose II in the Red Sea during the Exodus. And in 1910 BC was the birth of Isaac. He would be offered up by Abraham 30 years later - 400 years before the Exodus. You see if you continue back you will come to the beginning of the days of Adam at 3890 BC.

So our Lord was crucified in the last year in the 7th week (of years) of the 79th Jubilee cycle. This means that when the following 7th month came, the Apostles would be met with the 80th Jubilee.

This is NOT correct. The mathematics does not support this opinion. Again, you have not reviewed my information and gone through all the sources and verified it for yourself. You are stating provable misinformation.

Just one data point disproves your entire system. Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC.

 

[AFrazier]

So you distrust the Mishnah, which Jesus himself references on at least two occasions, but you think the Didiscalia Apostolorum should be venerated. Interesting, and very telling.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

So you distrust the Mishnah, which Jesus himself references on at least two occasions, but you think the Didiscalia Apostolorum should be venerated. Interesting, and very telling.

what were the references?