An Orthodox Jewish Perspective, from the mind of a Widow to Broaden Biblical Perspective in Discussion

[Grip Docility]

I had the privledge of meeting a wonderful Othodox Jewish Widow... who has sought fellowship here on CF...​

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Why am I opening this thread here? Because of James chapter 2. I would like Slibhin to have a voice and would like to learn from her, from her Orthodox Jewish perspective.​

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I am a Mega Gentile Christian and I could even be considered a Dispy... in many ways. I am Jewish by blood, as my Great Grand Mother fled Nazi Germany. I would like a safe space for Slibhin to discuss her beliefs, without being proselytized. I hope this isn't an issue.​

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Slibhin wrote an excellent OP on why Orthodox Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I found it informative and honest, as it is written from the heart of a genuine orthodox Jew. I would like to preserve her post within my OP, here.

Slibhin​

Active Member​

• Monday at 1:49 PM
• #1

The number one question I always get asked is why we don't accept or believe in Jesus. Here is the answer which I have kept as brief as possible. I am happy to answer any follow up questions asked in good faith.

The main reasons we don't accept Jesus as the Messiah is because we don't believe he fulfills the requirements. I am shocked how few Christians actually know Messianic prophecy and beliefs, at least from the Jewish perspective. The main points, but certainly not all, are the following:

1. The Messiah must be from the house of David. Jesus did not have a father and therefore cannot belong to any house or tribe which is inherited via the father. I have been told Mary is from David's line, but this is irrelevant by Jewish law since a mother cannot pass said lineage. Even if we were to give this a pass there is:

2. The Messiah is supposed to rebuild the temple. The temple was not even destroyed when Jesus lived.

3. The Messiah is supposed to liberate the Jewish people and return them to Israel. The Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.

4. The Messiah is supposed to establish world peace (Swords to ploughshares), bring the knowledge of G-d to the world and write the Torah in people's hearts. Jesus did not do any of this.

5. G-d calls human sacrifice an abomination in Deuteronomy 12:31, and also condemns it harshly in Jeremiah 19:4 - 5. In addition, G-d told Moses in Exodus 32 that a person cannot be punished or pay for the sins of another. Deuteronomy 24:16 restates this very clearly. We believe that G-d does not change or reverse himself, so Jesus "dying for our sins" violate this clear declaration by HaShem.

6. G-d says that blood sacrifice isn't even required to forgive sin in Ezekiel 18.

7. G-d said that the Torah is binding and eternal, in other words forever. We will never accept any theological position that HaShem has changed, altered or otherwise modified the Torah. This is because such an action would violate G-d's clear statement that he never changes or reverses himself. The idea that the 613 Mitzvot have been done away with, or there is a "New Testament" clearly contradicts what G-d has previously declared.

I would like to build on this thread in discussion with @Slibhin , if it is permitted by the Admins and Mods,, as it is obviously a search for a differing perspective, out of desire to broaden my personal understanding of topics, that I personally cannot fully comprehend from a genuine Orthodox Jewish perspective.

 

[Clare73]

I had the privledge of meeting a wonderful Othodox Jewish Widow... who has sought fellowship here on CF...​

​

Why am I opening this thread here? Because of James chapter 2. I would like Slibhin to have a voice and would like to learn from her, from her Orthodox Jewish perspective.​

​

I am a Mega Gentile Christian and I could even be considered a Dispy... in many ways. I am Jewish by blood, as my Great Grand Mother fled Nazi Germany. I would like a safe space for Slibhin to discuss her beliefs, without being proselytized. I hope this isn't an issue.​

​

Slibhin wrote an excellent OP on why Orthodox Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I found it informative and honest, as it is written from the heart of a genuine orthodox Jew. I would like to preserve her post within my OP, here.

I would like to build on this thread in discussion with @Slibhin , if it is permitted by the Admins and Mods,, as it is obviously a search for a differing perspective, out of desire to broaden my personal understanding of topics, that I personally cannot fully comprehend from a genuine Orthodox Jewish perspective.

The Holy Spirit must reveal to you that Jesus is Messiah. There is no belief of such otherwise, and he does so only to a remnant of both Gentiles and Jews.

 

[Grip Docility]

The Holy Spirit must reveal to you that Jesus is Messiah. There is no belief of such otherwise, and he does so only to a remnant of both Gentiles and Jews.

I opened this thread because @Slibhin came here to fellowship. She is not a Christian and is thus locked out of many threads... but here, there is a possibility that she can post here. I opened this thread as an intended place where she can share her perspective. I have no desire to attempt to "Change" her beliefs. She's a human being that study's the Tanakh, which we call the OT. I value study of all kinds and this is an opportunity for many more than myself.

All respect to you Clare73

 

[Clare73]

I opened this thread because @Slibhin came here to fellowship.

What fellowship does light (Jesus Christ) have with darkness (denial of Jesus Christ)?

She is not a Christian and is thus locked out of many threads... but here, there is a possibility that she can post here. I opened this thread as an intended place where she can share her perspective. I have no desire to attempt to "Change" her beliefs. She's a human being that study's the Tanakh, which we call the OT. I value study of all kinds and this is an opportunity for many more than myself.

All respect to you Clare73

And this Christian forum is also for the Christian perspective regarding those who deny the Christian perspective.

I don't recall any place in the NT where the contra-Christian perspective is granted a hearing without a response to it.

Are we holier than God's word?

 

[Grip Docility]

What fellowship does light (Jesus Christ) have with darkness (denial of Jesus Christ)?

And this Christian forum is also for the Christian perspective regarding those who deny the Christian perspective.

I don't recall any place in the NT where the contra-Christian perspective is granted a hearing without a response to it.

Are we holier than God's word?

My Lord, God and Idol is Yeshua Ben Yoseph, Ben HaShem, YeHoShua.... Jesus Christ... the Jewish King ... and once upon a time... some people said this of Him; "When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

I agree with this verse in Hebrews 13:13 ... "Therefore we should go forth to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach."

And again... Paul "1 Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), ......."

See, @Slibhin is steadfast in her faith towards HaShem... in deep sincerity. I can learn from her, and desire to do so if she gets a chance to speak on this thread. I have no desire to Change her faith. It is God's job to inspire hearts. I am merely a human being that is commissioned to Love all of humanity, as Yeshua did.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Clare73]

My Lord, God and Idol is Yeshua Ben Yoseph, Ben HaShem, YeHoShua.... Jesus Christ... the Jewish King ... and once upon a time... some people said this of Him; "When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

Don't like having to bring this up. . .tax collectors and sinners did not reject the Messiah, they were simply ignorant.

I agree with this verse in Hebrews 13:13 ... "Therefore we should go forth to Him outside the camp, bearing His reproach."

And again... Paul "1 Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), ......."

See, @Slibhin is steadfast in her faith towards HaShem... in deep sincerity. I can learn from her, and desire to do so if she gets a chance to speak on this thread. I have no desire to Change her faith. It is God's job to inspire hearts. I am merely a human being that is commissioned to Love all of humanity, as Yeshua did.

Does that answer your question?

Yes, it does. . .quite affectively.

 

[Grip Docility]

Don't like having to bring this up. . .tax collectors and sinners did not reject the Messiah, they were simply ignorant.


Yes, it does. . .quite affectively.

You have every right to bring it up. That’s honesty.

 

[cradleGO]

I had the privledge of meeting a wonderful Othodox Jewish Widow... who has sought fellowship here on CF...​

​

Why am I opening this thread here? Because of James chapter 2. I would like Slibhin to have a voice and would like to learn from her, from her Orthodox Jewish perspective.​

​

I am a Mega Gentile Christian and I could even be considered a Dispy... in many ways. I am Jewish by blood, as my Great Grand Mother fled Nazi Germany. I would like a safe space for Slibhin to discuss her beliefs, without being proselytized. I hope this isn't an issue.​

​

Slibhin wrote an excellent OP on why Orthodox Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I found it informative and honest, as it is written from the heart of a genuine orthodox Jew. I would like to preserve her post within my OP, here.

I would like to build on this thread in discussion with @Slibhin , if it is permitted by the Admins and Mods,, as it is obviously a search for a differing perspective, out of desire to broaden my personal understanding of topics, that I personally cannot fully comprehend from a genuine Orthodox Jewish perspective.

(I had said that Slibhin posted in The Kitchen Sink Apr 15 2024, but it was closed.) The gist I wanted to say is that much of what she says is rabbinic Judaism, not from the Torah. Issues of characterization and timing. And how she characterizes Christ - blood sacrifice - is Catholic/protestant redemption doctrine, not Orthodox Christian redemption doctrine.

Jesus must be and is descended through the Davidic royal (eligible) line. Big separate topic. Here is URL on that to start, but there is more support beyond this lengthy article.

How could Jesus be descended from the royal line of David if he was born of the Virgin Birth?

The first chapter of Matthew traces Jesus' lineage through his father Joseph back to King David through something like 18 generations. But as we know, Jesus was born through the agency of the Holy

christianity.stackexchange.com

Jesus conforms to Torah as to the Messiah. I'll post a url, which is currently operable. If it isn't then search for 'Dialogue with Yossi the Jew on the Trinity' on YouTube. There are short versions of this, but the original is best and more complete. Sam Shamoun speaks with a Jewish scholar and using the Tanakh shows how Jesus conforms to Jewish Scripture. I suggest you select Live Chat replay in which case the Scripture will appear (it wouldn't do this recently). Note the first 14? minutes, Sam shows Yossi why he should not speak on a Islam channel bashing Christians. Mostly this video however is what I earlier described. Feel free to pass these links on to her.