Age of the earth.

Diamond7

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I'm not sure why, but it seems you keep missing the main point and keep going into all of this other stuff that I'm already familiar with and never denied and again, is not the . You bring up teachings of the Kabballah
The discussion has to do with the age of 40. The discussion also has something to do with your belief that there is something wrong with Kabballah. You gave us your opinion, do you have more you want to say about how you think Kabballah is a false teaching? I already agree that there is a lot that the Hasidic, Kabballah and conservative Judaism believe that I do not agree with. But I do not go to the extent you go to as you are clearly anti sematic and that is pretty much against the rules and the law. I told you that both the principal and the director of a high school I attended were holocaust survivors. I tried to be polite about your anti sematic comments, but I do not know how much longer I can do that.

You refuse to address the issue I bring up. That conservative Judaism, including the Kabbalah people gave us our Hebrew Bible. Have you been a Christian for forty years so you can tell us if you noticed a difference in your life after 40 years of being a Christian? Jesus who was Jewish quoted the Hebrew Scripturas a lot. Jesus did not reject Judaism, He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel.

The terms "Israel" and "Judah" historically refer to two distinct entities in the ancient Middle East, specifically during the biblical period. So Hebrew maybe a better word or term to use. I do not like to use the word Jew or Jewish because the Holocaust survives considers both terms to derogatory. Today the Hasidic call themselves Jews or Jewish because people know what that means and I think they do not want to be subject to the derision that people like you like to pin on their words, terms, names and labels. They talk about how the scribes use to wash their hands so they were pure before they could write one of the names of God. Even today we use the generic term God and we do not speak any of HIs names outside of the sanctuary.
 
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Diamond7

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There is no Kabballah in the Bible.
Yes there is. Kabballah is a part of the oral tradition. I have already shown you that a lot of our written Bible comes from the Oral Tradition. Three times I have talked about how we have to distinguish between oral “tradition” and oral “transmission.” The oral tradition is said to go back before Moses to Abraham and some say all the way back to Adam.

I already told you there is a lot I do not agree with in their teachings. So I do not even know why this is an issue for you. For example in Dante's three books on heaven hell and purgatory they tend to believe more in purgatory. Another example has to do with reincarnation. My personal belief is that science shows we inherit memory from our ancestors. So when people talk about a past life I think it is just the memory they inherited.

You talk about the difference between conservative Jewish religion and Christianity, but what about all the differences that people discuss within the Christian belief system? Paul clearly says there are divisions to show who is approved by God and who does not represent God.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Yes! I am absolutely denying that trees can grow several rings per year. In my post, I explained the circumstances that can, in very rare instances, cause a tree to produce a second—but not a third!—tree ring. This is especially true in climates like that of the White Mountains of California at elevations between 10,000 and 11,000 feet where the weather is very dry and cold and second tree rings virtually never occur. The climate of the Gulf Coast of the United States is very wet and warm! Please read articles before posting links to them.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes! I am absolutely denying that trees can grow several rings per year. In my post, I explained the circumstances that can, in very rare instances, cause a tree to produce a second—but not a third!—tree ring. This is especially true in climates like that of the White Mountains of California at elevations between 10,000 and 11,000 feet where the weather is very dry and cold and second tree rings virtually never occur. The climate of the Gulf Coast of the United States is very wet and warm! Please read articles before posting links to them.
Actually they can grow a third ring in the tropics but it doesn’t make much sense to argue this point since the oldest tree ever dated by dendrochronology is only 4,900 years old.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Actually they can grow a third ring in the tropics but it doesn’t make much sense to argue this point since the oldest tree ever dated by dendrochronology is only 4,900 years old.
A third ring? Please explain the plant physiology and anatomy that would make that possible!

The Bristlecone pine trees (Pinus longaeva) living in the White Mountains of California, and Bristlecone pine trees that have died in the White Mountains of California have given us a continuous tree-ring sequence of 8,253 years and a nearly continuous tree-ring sequence of 11,000 years. Dendrochronologists are very hopeful that a continuous tree-ring sequence of 11,000 years will soon be firmly established, but Dendrochronologists are very cautious and are requiring absolute proof before they will publish such a claim.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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However, the important issue here is that we have today three very popular and influential organizations that teach Young Earth Creationism:

Institute for Creation Research
Answers in Genesis
Creation Ministries International

These three organizations, along with some smaller ones, make up a billion dollar industry that has proven repeatedly that they are willing to do anything to protect and promote their theological beliefs—and that anything includes willful and deliberate misrepresentations of the facts to their donors. A good example of those misrepresentations is found in their teaching regarding the animals on the ark of Genesis 6-8. Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International unashamedly teach that the word “kind” (Hebrew, מִין) in Genesis 1:11; 6:19; etc, designates what we call a genus, and that one pair of animals belonging to each genus was aboard the ark. They further teach that the very many species that we have today in each genus evolved from one “parent kind.” However, they substitute the word “descended” for the word evolved even though the word “descended” does NOT express the concept of change. (Lions and tigers did not descend from one “parent kind,” they evolved.)
 
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Diamond7

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I'm not sure why, but it seems you keep missing the main point
You seem to miss the point that I believe your prejudice against Kabballah is anti sematic. You seem to have a problem with the Hasidic and conservative "Jewish" belief. Most Christians support Israel and Judaism. I think that all religions have something of value to contribute. If you do not consider terrorism to be a religion. Because I see no value in terrorism anymore then I see any value in you attacking established conservatives beliefs that are a part of the oral tradition going back to Moses or even back to Abraham and Adam.

While Kabbalah has been historically associated with certain Jewish communities and traditions, its acceptance and interpretation vary widely among "Jews", including those within the Messianic "Jewish" movement. Kabbalah is not about anything other than gaining a deeper insight into the Torah and how it connects to deeper levels of spirituality and understanding of how G-d interacts with the world.


1711438145962.png
 
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BNR32FAN

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A third ring? Please explain the plant physiology and anatomy that would make that possible!

The Bristlecone pine trees (Pinus longaeva) living in the White Mountains of California, and Bristlecone pine trees that have died in the White Mountains of California have given us a continuous tree-ring sequence of 8,253 years and a nearly continuous tree-ring sequence of 11,000 years. Dendrochronologists are very hopeful that a continuous tree-ring sequence of 11,000 years will soon be firmly established, but Dendrochronologists are very cautious and are requiring absolute proof before they will publish such a claim.
Source please, the oldest tree that has ever been dated by dendrochronology is 4,900 years old. Where are you getting 8,000 years from?
 
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BroRoyVa79

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I am calling you on your prejudice and anti sematic comments.
Of course, telling the truth about something is "prejudice" and "anti-Semitic"....woooooow. I've given you all of the facts as to what the Kabballah is and incorporates. You've consistently ignored that I brought up that the very thing you're defending is the very thing Jesus fought against with the Pharisees and Sadducees, who were also Jewish Rabbis by the way.

Since you want to call me anti-Semitic and prejudice, here's what I'm saying from the mouth of Jews themselves. And for clarification, this is not me cosigning anything else these individuals believe. Also, I limited this to what I could quickly find on the interwebs and would be accessible to others:

From Rabbi Geoffrey W. Dennis (Emphasis mine):
Source: What is Kabbalah?
"Kabbalah (also spelled Kabalah, Cabala, Qabala)—sometimes translated as “mysticism” or “occult knowledge—is a part of Jewish tradition that deals with the essence of God. Whether it entails a sacred text, an experience, or the way things work, Kabbalists believe that God moves in mysterious ways. However, Kabbalists also believe that true knowledge and understanding of that inner, mysterious process is obtainable, and through that knowledge, the greatest intimacy with God can be attained.
The Zohar, a collection of written, mystical commentaries on the Torah, is considered to be the underpinning of Kabbalah. Written in medieval Aramaic and medieval Hebrew, the Zohar is intended to guide Kabbalists in their spiritual journey, helping them attain the greater levels of connectedness with God that they desire.
Kabbalistic thought often is considered Jewish mysticism. Its practitioners tend to view the Creator and the Creation as a continuum, rather than as discrete entities, and they desire to experience intimacy with God. This desire is especially intense because of the powerful mystical sense of kinship that Kabbalists believe exists between God and humanity. Within the soul of every individual is a hidden part of God that is waiting to be revealed. "​

I want to interject here. These two underlined highlighted lines are rather Pantheistic and this is coming from a Rabbi defending Kabballistic belief and philosophy.

Laura Gallo offers in her article for McGill University. Removed some of the context to shorten the quote. Source link is at the bottom for whoever wants to read everything in context. (Emphasis mine):
"Pantheism does not involve a belief in deities, spirits or any supernatural powers. Instead, Pantheists believe that what is divine is right here on earth; in fact, it is earth. Pantheism's central tenet is that the universe, the earth, and nature are divine and so they should be treated as sacred......So here is the Pantheistic world view in a simplistic equation: God = Universe."​
Source: In a Perfect World We'd All be Pantheists.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy defines Pantheism as (Emphasis mine):
"At its most general, pantheism may be understood either (a) positively, as the view that God is identical with the cosmos (i.e., the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God), or (b) negatively, as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe."
Source: Pantheism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Back to Rabbi Dennis, while I'm skipping a lot, which is why I sourced the article for anyone to read, I'm trying to focus on the problems of Kabbalistic beliefs and practices, but he goes on to say (Emphasis mine):
"The practical dimension of Kabbalah involves rituals for gaining and exercising power to effect change in our world and in the celestial worlds beyond ours. This power is generated by performing commandments, summoning and controlling angelic and demonic forces, and otherwise tapping into the supernatural energies present in Creation. The practical aspect of Kabbalah furthers God’s intention in the world, advancing good, subduing evil, healing, and mending. The true master of this art fulfills the human potential to be a co-creator with God."

This right here is magic.

Authors of My Jewish Learning, which is a site of articles written and authored by Jewish scholars and journalists and edited by Dr. Rachel Scheinerman and Ben Harris. They go on to explain the origins of the letters and meaning stuff (Grammar corrections and Emphasis mine):
"The earliest systemic treatment of the Jewish mystical doctrine is found in Sefer Yetzirah, where it is believed that creation is accomplished by means of the mystic combination of and the power inherent in the letters of the divine name. Since this power could be used for further creation, it did not come under the ban on witchcraft.
The book is believed to have been written by the second century CE, when the influences of Babylonian, Egyptian, and Hellenic mysteries were strong. It describes the process of number formation and refers frequently to the merkavah, or chariot mystery, of the prophet...
[They go on to quote Ezekiel chapter 1 here in a clickable frame and there seems to be an image here that's blocked by my work network]​
...mysticism and magic. The book is concerned with the formation of the world in 32 ways of wisdom, represented by the 22 letters of the alphabet and the ten sefirot, or emanations of God.
Sefer Yetzirah contains original expositions of letter and number mysticism as well as astrological divisions. Its complexities made interpretation necessary, and by the ninth century a commentary had already been written. Further mystical development followed the paths of Jewish settlement, and centers of mystical study appeared from the eleventh century on in Germany, Provence, Spain, North Africa, Safed, and Eastern Europe."

They go on to discuss early Theoretical & Practical Kabbalah separation (Emphasis mine):

"During the 13th century Jewish magic developed further with the separation of the Kabbalah into the iyyunit (theoretical) and the ma’asit (practical).The ma’asit was subdivided into inner religious activity and external magical activity and is of greater importance in our understanding of Jewish magic than the iyyunit."

They go on to discuss how Jews saw their magic different from European magic and how Jews justified their magic as being an extension of Judaism and not Satanic, but the astute Christian Bible reader will see the alarming red flags (Emphasis mine):

"While European magic, because of its heretical worship of Satan and the forces of evil, had no meaning for the Jew, many so-called “strange” Jewish customs were misinterpreted as magical acts against Christians and considered cause for attack. In actuality, Jewish magic was merely an extension and elaboration of the accepted principles of Judaism. A Jewish magician strictly utilized the Powers of Good by invoking the names of God and his angels."
I want to interject here and point out for anyone who has studied the Occult for apologetics purposes knows that this is called White Magic and still forbidden in the Bible. Keep that in mind as you continue reading on. Everything is wrapped up in White Magic (Supposed good magic). They go on. (Emphasis Mine):
"There were two types of Jewish magicians: the folk magician and the scholar. The folk magician was a man or woman who dealt in therapeutic remedies and segullot, in love potions and charms. The scholar was always male and dealt primarily with the proper words and texts required for amulets. He was called when exorcism was needed.
Exorcism became a form of Jewish magic only after the development of the idea of transmigration of souls in the sixteenth century by the Lurianic school of Kabbalah. In Jewish folklore the dybbuk was the soul of one forced to wander to atone for sins, which sought refuge in the body of a living individual. It represented a psychological possession by something beyond the individual’s control."
Source: From Jewish Mysticism to Magic | My Jewish Learning

Here is an article from Yale University discussing Dr. Yossi Chajes' studies and views on Kabballistic cosmological beliefs, magic, etc. (Emphasis mine):
"Dr. Yossi Chajes of the University of Haifa directs the Israel Science Foundation – supported “Ilanot Project,” an attempt to study all kabbalistic cosmological diagrams. In this talk, he explained Ilanot and their magical uses. Borrowing the most prestigious schemata from philosophical inquiry, the Tree of Porphyry diagrams of Aristotle’s categories, kabbalists from as early as 1400 depicted their cosmological insights (e.g. the emanation of the Sefirot) in tree- like diagrams, called Ilanot. These Ilanot can be described as iconotexts, composites of text and image."

The article goes on to explain. (Emphasis mine):
"Most Ilanot are thought to be used as a mnemonic, study aid, and material for meditation. They were also probably considered to draw Divine energy as talismans. Dr. Chajes likened the Ilanot to medieval maps which were thought to enable a virtual pilgrimage to the place represented. The volvelle Ilanot are a specific example of performance which was mandated by the Ilanot. Dr. Chajes pointed out that parchment scrolls, upon which the Ilanot were often depicted, have a specific resonance within the Jewish tradition. The scrolls of Tefillin, Mezuzah, Megillah, and Torah, are all used for specific Jewish rituals. As such, the very printing of an Ilan on a scroll of parchment signifies that it is ritually important and encourages the reader to “do something” with it, perhaps actively meditate upon it.
While Ilanot were primarily intended for contemplative kabbalah, they were also used for practical kabbalah. Ilanot were commonly fashioned into amulets meant to be apotropaic, to protect against harm. Usually the Ilanot that were intended to be used as amulets deleted the running commentary from the side. They were often miniaturized and worn around the neck. The use of Ilanot as amulets followed a long tradition of using text as image in magic. Earlier examples include using variations of Divine names in magic."
Source: Kabbalah Practices/ Practical Kabbalah: Magic and the Kabbalistic Tree

For reference and understanding:
Apotropaic magic: designed to avert evil.
Encyclopedia Britanica: Apotropaic Power

While Kabbalah has been historically associated with certain Jewish communities and traditions, its acceptance and interpretation vary widely among "Jews", including those within the Messianic "Jewish" movement.

The Kabballah came up by way of you mentioning that you study through Hasidic/Chasidic Jews. I stated that it is a common practice of them and the stuff you were bringing up about the meanings of the letters is Jewish Mysticism and found in the Kabballah. If you don't believe me, again, here it is from the mouth of Jews:

Back to My Jewish Learning, they write (Emphasis Mine):
"Hasidism emerged in the middle of the 18th century. The movement is traced to Israel ben Eliezer, known as the Baal Shem Tov (1700-1760)—usually translated as “Master of the Good Name”—an itinerant teacher and healer who taught that everyone, even the uneducated masses, can have personal interaction with the divine. The ultimate value of Hasidism is devekut, attachment to God."
Source: Kabbalah and Hasidism | My Jewish Learning

Notice, the individual who started this movement started with Kabbalistic beliefs since, if you read the article and other information on Kabballah, it was developed far, far earlier than the 18th century and if you've read any of the quotes and other articles, you see, although subtle, the familiar beliefs.

Harvard University's Pluralism Project's Introduction to Judaism sub article "Kabballah and Hasidism" (Emphasis Mine):
"In the late 18th century, Hasidism was founded in Eastern Europe partially as a response to Shabbateanism. The founder of the movement, Israel Baal Shem Tov (“master of the good name”), was an itinerant preacher and mystic who reinterpreted the Lurianic Kabbalah within more acceptable bounds. The Baal Shem Tov and his disciples created a new Jewish religious culture in which prayerful communion was exalted over talmudic study, spiritual intention over ritual detail, and joy over melancholy. Hasidism, from the Hebrew word hasid (pious follower), was a movement of the common folk, stressing populism and social welfare at a time when the official Eastern European Jewish community, the kehillah, was corrupt and declining. The Hasidic community was headed by a new type of rabbinic leader, the tzaddik or rebbe, who led by personal example, storytelling, and moral authority. Certain Hasidic leaders, such as the late Lubavitcher Rebbe (1902-1994), are claimed by some of their followers to be the messiah."
Source: Kabbalah and Hasidism

Edited to add: To be fair, the above article mentions that Hasidic Judaism split into factions. You kept bringing up that you study through Conservative Hasidic Jews, but you are also espousing the letter meaning stuff and you brought up another Kabbalistic saying about age and qualifications. Yet, wanted to say that you were only learning the Hebrew language and not adopting anything else. I was just pointing out that you seem to be adopting other stuff. Apart from that, I'm fully aware that it's entirely possible that much time has passed and there might be factions that do not hold the Kabballah in high regard. The problem is that your entire fundamental argumentation about the Hebrew language is built on the letter meaning stuff which is Kabbalistic.

I think that's enough to show that I'm not making anything up and what's already talked about and known even among Rabbis and brought up by me as a warning is not prejudice and anti-Semitic. At this point, I'm going to leave it here as this is starting to seriously derail this topic as it's supposed to be about the Age of the Earth and not whether or not the Kabballah is something Christians should be indulging in. Also, I have no further plans to reply to any more of your posts.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Of course, telling the truth about something is "prejudice" and "anti-Semitic"....woooooow. I've given you all of the facts as to what the Kabballah is and incorporates. You've consistently ignored that I brought up that the very thing you're defending is the very thing Jesus fought against with the Pharisees and Sadducees, who were also Jewish Rabbis by the way.

Since you want to call me anti-Semitic and prejudice, here's what I'm saying from the mouth of Jews themselves. And for clarification, this is not me cosigning anything else these individuals believe. Also, I limited this to what I could quickly find on the interwebs and would be accessible to others:

From Rabbi Geoffrey W. Dennis (Emphasis mine):
Source: What is Kabbalah?
"Kabbalah (also spelled Kabalah, Cabala, Qabala)—sometimes translated as “mysticism” or “occult knowledge—is a part of Jewish tradition that deals with the essence of God. Whether it entails a sacred text, an experience, or the way things work, Kabbalists believe that God moves in mysterious ways. However, Kabbalists also believe that true knowledge and understanding of that inner, mysterious process is obtainable, and through that knowledge, the greatest intimacy with God can be attained.
The Zohar, a collection of written, mystical commentaries on the Torah, is considered to be the underpinning of Kabbalah. Written in medieval Aramaic and medieval Hebrew, the Zohar is intended to guide Kabbalists in their spiritual journey, helping them attain the greater levels of connectedness with God that they desire.
Kabbalistic thought often is considered Jewish mysticism. Its practitioners tend to view the Creator and the Creation as a continuum, rather than as discrete entities, and they desire to experience intimacy with God. This desire is especially intense because of the powerful mystical sense of kinship that Kabbalists believe exists between God and humanity. Within the soul of every individual is a hidden part of God that is waiting to be revealed. "​

I want to interject here. These two underlined highlighted lines are rather Pantheistic and this is coming from a Rabbi defending Kabballistic belief and philosophy.

Laura Gallo offers in her article for McGill University. Removed some of the context to shorten the quote. Source link is at the bottom for whoever wants to read everything in context. (Emphasis mine):
"Pantheism does not involve a belief in deities, spirits or any supernatural powers. Instead, Pantheists believe that what is divine is right here on earth; in fact, it is earth. Pantheism's central tenet is that the universe, the earth, and nature are divine and so they should be treated as sacred......So here is the Pantheistic world view in a simplistic equation: God = Universe."​
Source: In a Perfect World We'd All be Pantheists.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy defines Pantheism as (Emphasis mine):
"At its most general, pantheism may be understood either (a) positively, as the view that God is identical with the cosmos (i.e., the view that there exists nothing which is outside of God), or (b) negatively, as the rejection of any view that considers God as distinct from the universe."
Source: Pantheism (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Back to Rabbi Dennis, while I'm skipping a lot, which is why I sourced the article for anyone to read, I'm trying to focus on the problems of Kabbalistic beliefs and practices, but he goes on to say (Emphasis mine):
"The practical dimension of Kabbalah involves rituals for gaining and exercising power to effect change in our world and in the celestial worlds beyond ours. This power is generated by performing commandments, summoning and controlling angelic and demonic forces, and otherwise tapping into the supernatural energies present in Creation. The practical aspect of Kabbalah furthers God’s intention in the world, advancing good, subduing evil, healing, and mending. The true master of this art fulfills the human potential to be a co-creator with God."

This right here is magic.

Authors of My Jewish Learning, which is a site of articles written and authored by Jewish scholars and journalists and edited by Dr. Rachel Scheinerman and Ben Harris. They go on to explain the origins of the letters and meaning stuff (Grammar corrections and Emphasis mine):
"The earliest systemic treatment of the Jewish mystical doctrine is found in SeferYetzirah, where it is believed that creation is accomplished by means of the mystic combination of and the power inherent in the letters of the divine name. Since this power could be used for further creation, it did not come under the ban on witchcraft.
The book is believed to have been written by the second century CE, when the influences of Babylonian, Egyptian, and Hellenic mysteries were strong. It describes the process of number formation and refers frequently to the merkavah, or chariot mystery, of the prophet...
[They go on to quote Ezekiel chapter 1 here in a clickable frame and there seems to be an image here that's blocked by my work network]​
...mysticism and magic. The book is concerned with the formation of the world in 32 ways of wisdom, represented by the 22 letters of the alphabet and the ten sefirot, or emanations of God.
Sefer Yetzirah contains original expositions of letter and number mysticism as well as astrological divisions. Its complexities made interpretation necessary, and by the ninth century a commentary had already been written. Further mystical development followed the paths of Jewish settlement, and centers of mystical study appeared from the eleventh century on in Germany, Provence, Spain, North Africa, Safed, and Eastern Europe."

They go on to discuss early Theoretical & Practical Kabbalah separation (Emphasis mine):

"During the 13th century Jewish magic developed further with the separation of the Kabbalah into the iyyunit (theoretical) and the ma’asit (practical).The ma’asit was subdivided into inner religious activity and external magical activity and is of greater importance in our understanding of Jewish magic than the iyyunit."

They go on to discuss how Jews saw their magic different from European magic and how Jews justified their magic as being an extension of Judaism and not Satanic, but the astute Christian Bible reader will see the alarming red flags (Emphasis mine):

"While European magic, because of its heretical worship of Satan and the forces of evil, had no meaning for the Jew, many so-called “strange” Jewish customs were misinterpreted as magical acts against Christians and considered cause for attack. In actuality, Jewish magic was merely an extension and elaboration of the accepted principles of Judaism. A Jewish magician strictly utilized the Powers of Good by invoking the names of God and his angels."
I want to interject here and point out for anyone who has studied the Occult for apologetics purposes knows that this is called White Magic and still forbidden in the Bible. Keep that in mind as you continue reading on. Everything is wrapped up in White Magic (Supposed good magic). They go on. (Emphasis Mine):
"There were two types of Jewish magicians: the folk magician and the scholar. The folk magician was a man or woman who dealt in therapeutic remedies and segullot, in love potions and charms. The scholar was always male and dealt primarily with the proper words and texts required for amulets. He was called when exorcism was needed.
Exorcism became a form of Jewish magic only after the development of the idea of transmigration of souls in the sixteenth century by the Lurianic school of Kabbalah. In Jewish folklore the dybbuk was the soul of one forced to wander to atone for sins, which sought refuge in the body of a living individual. It represented a psychological possession by something beyond the individual’s control."
Source: From Jewish Mysticism to Magic | My Jewish Learning

Here is an article from Yale University discussing Dr. Yossi Chajes' studies and views on Kabballistic cosmological beliefs, magic, etc. (Emphasis mine):
"Dr. Yossi Chajes of the University of Haifa directs the Israel Science Foundation – supported “Ilanot Project,” an attempt to study all kabbalistic cosmological diagrams. In this talk, he explained Ilanot and their magical uses. Borrowing the most prestigious schemata from philosophical inquiry, the Tree of Porphyry diagrams of Aristotle’s categories, kabbalists from as early as 1400 depicted their cosmological insights (e.g. the emanation of the Sefirot) in tree- like diagrams, called Ilanot. These Ilanot can be described as iconotexts, composites of text and image."

The article goes on to explain. (Emphasis mine):
"Most Ilanot are thought to be used as a mnemonic, study aid, and material for meditation. They were also probably considered to draw Divine energy as talismans. Dr. Chajes likened the Ilanot to medieval maps which were thought to enable a virtual pilgrimage to the place represented. The volvelle Ilanot are a specific example of performance which was mandated by the Ilanot. Dr. Chajes pointed out that parchment scrolls, upon which the Ilanot were often depicted, have a specific resonance within the Jewish tradition. The scrolls of Tefillin, Mezuzah, Megillah, and Torah, are all used for specific Jewish rituals. As such, the very printing of an Ilan on a scroll of parchment signifies that it is ritually important and encourages the reader to “do something” with it, perhaps actively meditate upon it.
While Ilanot were primarily intended for contemplative kabbalah, they were also used for practical kabbalah. Ilanot were commonly fashioned into amulets meant to be apotropaic, to protect against harm. Usually the Ilanot that were intended to be used as amulets deleted the running commentary from the side. They were often miniaturized and worn around the neck. The use of Ilanot as amulets followed a long tradition of using text as image in magic. Earlier examples include using variations of Divine names in magic."
Source: Kabbalah Practices/ Practical Kabbalah: Magic and the Kabbalistic Tree

For reference and understanding:
Apotropaic magic: designed to avert evil.
Encyclopedia Britanica: Apotropaic Power



The Kabballah came up by way of you mentioning that you study through Hasidic/Chasidic Jews. I stated that it is a common practice of them and the stuff you were bringing up about the meanings of the letters is Jewish Mysticism and found in the Kabballah. If you don't believe me, again, here it is from the mouth of Jews:

Back to My Jewish Learning, they write (Emphasis Mine):
"Hasidism emerged in the middle of the 18th century. The movement is traced to Israel ben Eliezer, known as the Baal Shem Tov (1700-1760)—usually translated as “Master of the Good Name”—an itinerant teacher and healer who taught that everyone, even the uneducated masses, can have personal interaction with the divine. The ultimate value of Hasidism is devekut, attachment to God."
Source: Kabbalah and Hasidism | My Jewish Learning

Notice, the individual who stated this movement started with Kabbalistic beliefs since, if you read the article and other information on Kabballah, it was developed far, far earlier than the 18th century and if you've read any of the quotes and other articles, you see, although subtle, the familiar beliefs.

Harvard University's Pluralism Project's Introduction to Judaism sub article "Kabballah and Hasidism" (Emphasis Mine):
"In the late 18th century, Hasidism was founded in Eastern Europe partially as a response to Shabbateanism. The founder of the movement, Israel Baal Shem Tov (“master of the good name”), was an itinerant preacher and mystic who reinterpreted the Lurianic Kabbalah within more acceptable bounds. The Baal Shem Tov and his disciples created a new Jewish religious culture in which prayerful communion was exalted over talmudic study, spiritual intention over ritual detail, and joy over melancholy. Hasidism, from the Hebrew word hasid (pious follower), was a movement of the common folk, stressing populism and social welfare at a time when the official Eastern European Jewish community, the kehillah, was corrupt and declining. The Hasidic community was headed by a new type of rabbinic leader, the tzaddik or rebbe, who led by personal example, storytelling, and moral authority. Certain Hasidic leaders, such as the late Lubavitcher Rebbe (1902-1994), are claimed by some of their followers to be the messiah."
Source: Kabbalah and Hasidism

I think that's enough to show that I'm not making anything up and what's already talked about and known even among Rabbis and brought up by me as a warning is not prejudice and anti-Semitic. At this point, I'm going to leave it here as this is starting to seriously derail this topic as it's supposed to be about the Age of the Earth and not whether or not the Kabballah is something Christians should be indulging in. Also, I have no further plans to reply to any more of your posts.
This definitely sounds like a practice that Christians should avoid.
 

Diamond7

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you're defending is the very thing Jesus fought against with the Pharisees and Sadducees, who were also Jewish Rabbis by the way.
Maybe this is to complicated for you to understand. If you can not sort your way through it then you are right, you should just stay away from it. The problem with that is, someone else has to translate and interpret the Bible for you if your not able to do that for yourself. But that is fine if you trust your people to do that for you. I am a descendant from the Bible translator that was Bloody Mary's first victim. So I believe God has given me the ability to translate the Bible for myself and I do not need others to do that for me.
 
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Diamond7

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This definitely sounds like a practice that Christians should avoid.
That was where this conversation began. I said Christians should avoid this until they have been a Christian for 40 years. They do not have any choice because they are simply not going to understand. This is why we have elders in the Church.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That was where this conversation began. I said Christians should avoid this until they have been a Christian for 40 years. They do not have any choice because they are simply not going to understand. This is why we have elders in the Church.
How long were the apostles a Christian before they began preaching?
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Source please, the oldest tree that has ever been dated by dendrochronology is 4,900 years old. Where are you getting 8,000 years from?
As I posted, “The Bristlecone Pine trees (Pinus longaeva) living in the White Mountains of California, and Bristlecone Pine trees that have died in the White Mountains of California…” Because of the very dry and cold climate in which these trees live and die, the tree rings of the trees that have died are preserved much as though they are being kept in a refrigerator. Some of these trees began living centuries before the oldest trees that are still alive, and they continued to live for centuries more before they died. Therefore, we have partial overlaps of the tree ring sequences giving us figures like 4,900 + 3,353 = 8,253 (a “continuous tree-ring sequence” of 8,253 years).
 
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That was where this conversation began. I said Christians should avoid this until they have been a Christian for 40 years. They do not have any choice because they are simply not going to understand. This is why we have elders in the Church.
You might have a point if I knew anyone who was a Christian for 40 years that teach anything that you teach. Not one person that I know who has been a Christian for 40 years teaches Jewish mysticism, they don’t teach that Adam was born, they don’t teach that Genesis 1:26 is about Neanderthals, they don’t teach that Jesus walked on ice, they don’t teach that Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt my a meteor. Thank God they don’t otherwise I would have to advise that Christians should stop preaching when they’ve been a Christian for 40 years because they’re definitely loosing some marbles.
 
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BNR32FAN

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As I posted, “The Bristlecone Pine trees (Pinus longaeva) living in the White Mountains of California, and Bristlecone Pine trees that have died in the White Mountains of California…” Because of the very dry and cold climate in which these trees live and die, the tree rings of the trees that have died are preserved much as though they are being kept in a refrigerator. Some of these trees began living centuries before the oldest trees that are still alive, and they continued to live for centuries more before they died. Therefore, we have partial overlaps of the tree ring sequences giving us figures like 4,900 + 3,353 = 8,253 (a “continuous tree-ring sequence” of 8,253 years).
How do you have overlaps in the sequence?
 
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BroRoyVa79

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Maybe this is to complicated for you to understand. If you can not sort your way through it then you are right, you should just stay away from it. The problem with that is, someone else has to translate and interpret the Bible for you if your not able to do that for yourself. But that is fine if you trust your people to do that for you. I am a descendant from the Bible translator that was Bloody Mary's first victim. So I believe God has given me the ability to translate the Bible for myself and I do not need others to do that for me.
Last reply to you. I did say that I went to school for the Biblical languages. You must've missed or conveniently ignored that. Beyond this, it has nothing to do with it being "to complicated for [me] to understand" and I "can not sort [my] way through it..." that's the reason I've decided to drop this with you. It's entirely because you keep bringing up things that are beside the point. I get that you've gone through learning all of this stuff from them and felt/feel the need to overshare about it when someone brings up a particular point about how meanings in letters aren't really a thing outside of esotericism which is Kabbalistic teachings and that it's Jewish Mysticism, etc. But it's beside the point. I gave you some of their own words admitting to this. I can go to a site that's all Rabbis (Chabad.org, etc.) who all say the same thing, yet you choose to ignore it.

Proverbs 15: 31-32 The ear that listens to life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.
 
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