Do the scriptures reveal there will be two different raptures for the saints?

[Deep Truth]

When you study the details of the rapture in Thessalonians and compare it to the rapture in Corinthians, it appears these scriptures are describing two distinct rapture events for the saints. And if this is true, then what do these two different raptures represent?

In the Bible, similar words and phrases are often used to connect one scripture with another to reveal a hidden meaning or prophecy. In other words, scripture interprets scripture; for example, the Word that was God in John 1:1 is revealed by the Word that became flesh in John 1:14.

Therefore, let us carefully examine the rapture in Thessalonians and Corinthians to see if any word-connected scriptures will give us deeper insight and understanding of the rapture for the saints.

The rapture shout in Thessalonians​

1 Th 4:15-17 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep (died).​

• For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout (Mat 25:6, Psa 47:5),​
• with the voice of the archangel (Michael?, Jude 1:9),​
• and with the sound of the trumpet of God,​

And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive (in Christ by yielding to the Spirit, Rom 8:12-14), who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.​

The rapture shout from the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 is mentioned again when the 10 virgins heard a shout, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him,' which is a parable for the wise saints who have their lamps burning as a loving witness for Christ that will be raptured to the wedding banquet by a shout from the Lord before the tribulation begins (Mat 5:14-16, Zep 2:3, 1Th 5:2-4, Rev 3:4,10).

• Mat 25:5-6, 10 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. (6) But at midnight there was a shout, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.'......(10) And while they (the foolish virgins, 2 Cor 11:2-4) were going to buy (more oil for their lamps), the bridegroom came, and those (wise virgins) who were ready (with their lamps burning for Jesus) went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.

The pre-tribulation rapture of the faithful saints by a shout from the Lord is also foreshadowed by Noah who was told by God to enter the ark 7 days before the flood of judgment destroyed ungodly mankind, which is prophetic for the obedient saints who will be raptured 7 years before God's final judgment of rebellious mankind takes place at the end of the tribulation, Gen 7:1-10, Heb 11:7.

Isaiah 26:20-21 Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you (as Noah did); hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. (21) See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins.​

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The shout from God that's followed by the sound of the trumpet when the (willing-hearted, Ex 35:5) princes of the peoples are gathered in Psalms 47:1-9, is another possible example of the rapture for the faithful saints who will sing praises to God for their heavenly redemption.

Psalms 47:1-9, Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy! (2) For the LORD, the Most High, is to be feared, a great king over all the earth. (3) He subdued peoples under us, and nations under our feet. (4) He chose our inheritance for us, the pride (excellency) of Jacob whom he loves. Selah.​

• (5) God has gone up with a shout, ​
• the LORD with the sound of a trumpet.​

(6) Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! (7) For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm! (8) God reigns over the nations; God sits on his holy throne. (9) The princes of the peoples gather (when they are raptured to heaven) as the people of the God of Abraham. For (the righteous who walk by faith are) the shields of the earth (who) belong to God; he is highly exalted! (Psa 5:12, Eph 6:16)​

The faithful disciple John who was caught up in the spirit to heaven by a loud voice like a trumpet before he witnessed the events of the tribulation (Rev 1:9-10, 4:1-2), is a fourth example of the obedient saints who will be raptured by a shout from the Lord and the sound of the trumpet before the tribulation begins.

The Thessalonians represent the pre-tribulation rapture of the faithful saints​

The Thessalonians who were growing in faith and increasing in their love for one another that were considered worthy of the kingdom of God for which they were suffering (2Th 1:3-8, Pro 3:3-4), represent the sanctified saints who are not in darkness for the day of the Lord to surprise them like a thief (1Th 5:2-4, Rev 3:4, 10) when Jesus returns to rapture his faithful saints with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the sound of the trumpet.

1 Th 5:2-4 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (3) While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. (4) But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day (of the tribulation) to surprise you like a thief.​

The carnal Corinthians are raptured at the last trumpet​

However, the only detail that's mentioned regarding the rapture of the saints in Corinthians is the last trumpet.

1 Cor 15:51-52 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (saints) will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.​

And the last trumpet when all the saints will be changed in Corinthians connects this scripture to the only detail of the loud trumpet when Jesus will gather his tribulation saints from the four winds of the earth, Mat 24:29-31, Mark 13:27.

Mat 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken (30) Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (31) And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect (tribulation saints) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Therefore, the carnal Corinthians who were divided and tolerated sin in the church (1 Cor 1:10-13) are a type for the end-time worldly saints (i.e., foolish virgins, 2 Cor 11:2-4) who will be handed over to Satan for the destruction of the sinful flesh, so the righteous spirit within these repentant saints may be saved in the day of the Lord at the last trumpet, which implies there's a first trumpet rapture of the faithful and obedient saints who are represented by righteous Noah (Gen 7:1, 4), the five wise virgins, and the Thessalonian church.

1 Cor 5:4-5 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, (5) you are to deliver this (disobedient Christian) man to Satan for the destruction of the (sinful) flesh, so that his (righteous) spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord (which is the tribulation).​

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The Corinthian saint who abused and profaned the grace of God that was handed over to Satan to be disciplined in the day of the Lord represents the disobedient saints who will be left behind when the darkness of the tribulation begins in the first watch of the night, who need to repent so they may be ready when Jesus returns from the wedding banquet in the second or third watch of the tribulation for his left behind saints.

Jesus returns from the wedding for his left-behind saints​

Luke 12:35-36, 38-40 "Stay dressed for action and keep your lamps burning (as a faithful witness for Christ, Mat 5:14-16), (36) and be like men who are waiting for their master to return from the wedding feast (in heaven), so that they may open the door to him at once when he comes and knocks......(38) If he comes in the second watch, or in the third (watch of the tribulation), and finds them (spiritually) awake, blessed are those servants! (39) But know this, that if the master of the house (a saint, Mat 13:52) had known (in the first watch) at what hour (Jesus) the thief was coming (to rapture his faithful saints), he would not have left his (spiritual) house (and heart) to be broken into (by sin, Pro 3:7, 4:23-27, Psa 119:11). (40) (Therefore) You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming (again) at an hour you do not expect."​

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Luke 21:34-36 "But watch yourselves (saints) lest your hearts be weighed down (and broken into) with dissipation and drunkenness and (the sinful) cares of this life, and that day (of the tribulation) come upon you suddenly like a trap. (35) For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. (36) But stay awake at all times (by following Jesus), praying that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are going to take place (in the tribulation), and to stand before the Son of Man (at the wedding banquet)."​

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Mark 13:35-37 Therefore stay (spiritually) awake (Psa 119:148)--for you do not know when (Jesus) the master of the house (Mat 20:1) will come, in the evening (of the first watch, Lam 2:15-19), or at midnight (in the second watch, Jdg 7:19-20), or when the rooster crows (in the third watch, Rev 16:15?), or in the morning (Mat 14:22-33, Ex 14:23-27, 1 Sam 11:11, Psa 130:1-8)-- (36) lest he come suddenly and find you asleep (in your sinful desires, 1 Th 5:6-7). (37) And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake."​

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The scriptures in Rev 16:13-16 reveal that Jesus will return like a thief to rapture his left-behind tribulation saints just before the battle of Armageddon takes place.

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Rev 16:13-16 And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. (14) For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. (15) ("Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments (of righteousness) on (by following Jesus, Rom 13:13-14), that he may not go about naked (in his sin, Rev 3:17-19) and be seen exposed!" (16) And they assembled them at the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.​

The dead church of Sardis whose deeds of faith and love were not complete and the lukewarm Laodicean church (Jas 1:21-22, 1 Jn 1:6-7, 2:10-11), are two examples for the disobedient saints who will be ashamed and left behind in the tribulation (1 Jn 2:28), where they will repent and wash their sin-soiled garments in the blood of the Lamb (James 4:4-10, Pro 25:26, Lam 1:8-9, Mat 13:41-43) as they wait to be raptured at the last trumpet, Rev 7:13-17, 16:15.

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Rev 3:2-4 Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die (church of Sardis), for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God. (3) Remember, then, what you received and heard (through my Word). Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up (from your sinful sleep, 1 Th 5:6-7) I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you (when you are left behind to be disciplined in the tribulation). (4) Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments (with sin, Lam 1:8-9), and they will walk with me in white (at the wedding banquet), for they are worthy (by their righteous deeds of faith and love, Jas 2:21-22, 1 Jn 4:16-17, 2 Th 1:3-5, Rev 19:7-8, Pro 3:3-4).​

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Rev 7:13-14 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?" (14) I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the (left behind saints, the) ones coming out of the great tribulation (1 Cor 5:5). They have (repented and) washed their (sin soiled) robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Rev 3:18-19, Heb 12:6-11, 1 Jn 1:6-9, Psa 32:4-7, 51:7).​

Pro 25:26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain (or a sin soiled garment) is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.​

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Lam 1:8-9 Jerusalem sinned grievously; therefore she became filthy; ......(9) Her uncleanness was in her skirts;​

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Lam 4:6-8 For the chastisement of the daughter of my people has been greater than the punishment of Sodom.....(7) Her princes were purer than snow, whiter than milk....(8) Now their face is blacker than soot (because of their sin);​

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1 John 1:6-7 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in (sin's) darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. (7) But if we walk in the light (of God's Word), as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all (of our filthy) sin.​

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The church of Philadelphia (which means brotherly love) that has not denied Christ's name is prophetic for the first-fruit sanctified saints (Rom 6:19, 2 Th 2:13) who have made themselves ready by their righteous deeds and are worthy to be clothed in white spotless wedding garments (2 Th 1:3-5, Rev 3:4, 3:7-13, 19:7-8), that will be protected from the hour of trial coming on the world when they are raptured by a shout from the Lord and the sound of the first trumpet before the tribulation begins.

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world (in the tribulation), to try those who dwell on the earth.​

Rev 19:7-8 Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride (the sanctified saints) has made herself ready; (8) it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure"-- for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.​

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Zep 2:3 Seek the LORD, all you humble of the land, who do his just commands; seek righteousness; seek humility; perhaps you may be hidden on the day of the anger of the LORD.​

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The following dreams are a warning from the Lord that we need to be awake with our spiritual lamps burning as a faithful and loving witness for Jesus so we may be found worthy when judgment begins at the household of God, 1 Peter 4:17.

My Rapture Dream is a Wake Up Call !!!

Rapture Dream! I was Left Behind!

In these articles I discuss the mystery of the rapture of the saints.
Who are the sons of the kingdom cast into outer darkness?
Why are many called to the wedding banquet but few are chosen?
Why will the first be last, and the last first?

 

[RandyPNW]

When you study the details of the rapture in Thessalonians and compare it to the rapture in Corinthians, it appears these scriptures are describing two distinct rapture events for the saints. And if this is true, then what do these two different raptures represent?

The basis of the Rapture is the 2nd Coming, of the Coming of the Son of Man, which originates in Dan 7. Having a common origin in Scriptures, I seriously doubt there is any substantial evidence for "different Raptures."

The Son of Man comes down from heaven to establish God's Kingdom on the earth, in the face of Antichrist's opposition, who is called in Dan 7 the "Little Horn." Revelation goes to great lengths to describe this, as if to let all of Christianity know, throughout history, that Antichrists will somewhat prevail until the Kingdom of Christ is actually established. The Gospel will succeed, but opposition will temporarily succeed, as well.

When the Son of Man comes, it will be to bring victory to his suffering saints, gathering them into his Kingdom. Paul sees Christ coming back from heaven, just as he left for heaven. And as Christ ascended into heaven to obtain his glorious new body, so he will call up his saints to give them glorious new bodies, as well, so that they may join him in establishing his Kingdom and in regathering his people into their various nations.

In the Olivet Discourse Jesus speaks primarily of Israel's regathering, because at that time he was still speaking under the era of Law, where Israel was primarily viewed as God's exclusive people. But not long after the Cross, a great outreach began to convert many pagan nations to Christianity. And so, this great regathering, to take place at Christ's Coming, will regather not just Israel but many fallen nations who have fallen away from Christianity, just as Israel did.

In the Bible, similar words and phrases are often used to connect one scripture with another in order to reveal a hidden meaning or prophecy (John 1:1, John 1:14).

I see no "hidden meanings" in these passages?

The Rapture, or calling up of the saints at Christ's Coming, in 1 Thes 4 is the same as the Coming of the Son of Man in Dan 7 and in the Olivet Discourse. So is 1 Cor 15. Both passages focus on Christ's Coming and on the victory of the saints at that time, with particular emphasis on their resurrection and glorification.

1 Thes 4.16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

1 Cor 15.22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.... 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

All of these passages are saying the same things, based on Dan 7, that the Son of Man is Coming from heaven to deliver his saints, to raise them from the dead and to give them immortality and eternal life with God. This will constitute the establishment of God's Kingdom on earth forever. There is nothing secretive about this, and nothing divergent between one passage and another, in my opinion.

 

[One God and Father of All]

The rapture includes both the living and the dead who are in Christ. It is therefore not to save them from the Anti-Christ. A dead person cannot be harmed by anyone anymore. All those in the past who will be raised to immortal life will be included in the rapture.
The rapture is for the purpose of bringing those with him to execute God’s judgments.

When God’s judgments are being executed on earth by Jesus and his raptured saints there will be what is called “the first resurrection” . This “first” resurrection comes some time after the rapture. There is no rapture for the living at the “first” resurrection. It is only a resurrection of dead ones who died during the tribulation and persecution of Anti-Christ and the beast of the sea of nations.

After the “first resurrection” of this time, all the faithful who have died in Christ will be ready to rule with Christ when his kingdom is established and the nations have been judged and ready to submit to Christs rule.

The ones in Christ who survive during this time are not raptured but remain mortal.

the immortal ones will operate in the kingdom in a way similar to how God’s angels operate now.
The mortal ones will operate in a way that God had originally intended His kingdom on earth to operate. And therefore the restoration.

 

[Clare73]

The rapture includes both the living and the dead who are in Christ. It is therefore not to save them from the Anti-Christ. A dead person cannot be harmed by anyone anymore. All those in the past who will be raised to immortal life will be included in the rapture.
The rapture is for the purpose of bringing those with him to execute God’s judgments.

When God’s judgments are being executed on earth by Jesus and his raptured saints there will be what is called “the first resurrection” . This “first” resurrection comes some time after the rapture. There is no rapture for the living at the “first” resurrection. It is only a resurrection of dead ones who died during the tribulation and persecution of Anti-Christ and the beast of the sea of nations.

After the “first resurrection” of this time, all the faithful who have died in Christ will be ready to rule with Christ when his kingdom is established and the nations have been judged and ready to submit to Christs rule.

The ones in Christ who survive during this time are not raptured but remain mortal.

the immortal ones will operate in the kingdom in a way similar to how God’s angels operate now.
The mortal ones will operate in a way that God had originally intended His kingdom on earth to operate. And therefore the restoration.

Apostolic teaching presents only one tribulation of the saints; i.e., the church age, and only one rapture of the saints i.e, at the resurrection of all mankind (both sheep and goats) at the end of time.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Apostolic teaching presents only one tribulation of the saints; i.e., the church age, and only one rapture of the saints i.e, at the resurrection.

The tribulation of the saints is a tribulation of living mortals. It is not a tribulation for dead ones or for immortals. The rapture is a translation of the living to immortality and a resurrection of the dead to immortality. There is only one rapture. However, there is more than one resurrection. There is a resurrection at the rapture, a resurrection after the tribulation and a resurrection of those judged in contempt of Christ. They will experience a second death in the lake of fire.

 

[Clare73]

The tribulation of the saints is a tribulation of living mortals. It is not a tribulation for dead ones or for immortals. The rapture is a translation of the living to immortality and a resurrection of the dead to immortality.

No, according to NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, the rapture is the catching up (harpazo) of all the saints at the one and only resurrection at the end of time (that of the sheep and the goats),
to go up (out) to meet the Lord and accompany him back to earth (as they went out and accompanied him back into the city on Palm Sunday; i.e., parousia) for the final judgment.

There is only one rapture. However, there is more than one resurrection. There is a resurrection at the rapture, a resurrection after the tribulation and a resurrection of those judged in contempt of Christ. They will experience a second death in the lake of fire.

 

[One God and Father of All]

No, according to NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church, the rapture is the catching up (harpazo) of all the saints at the one and only resurrection at the end of time (that of the sheep and the goats),
to go up (out) to meet the Lord and accompany him back to earth (as they went out and accompanied him back into the city on Palm Sunday; i.e., parousia) for the final judgment.

To say there is a first resurrection implies at least one another to follow. And so there is.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

It‘s said that in the first resurrection the second death has no power. Which implies that in another resurrection the second death would have power.

Therefore, the first resurrection is of those who are to be made immortal and reign with Christ and the second resurrection is of those who will die a second death.

 

[Clare73]

To say there is a first resurrection implies at least one another to follow. And so there is.

The 1,000 years of Rev 20 is symbolic prophecy.
I see it as referring to the church age, where the first resurrection is the new birth from spiritual death to eternal life.
The resurrection to follow is at the end of time, of the sheep and goats (all mankind).

Do not treat interpretation of symbolic prophecy (as in bodily resurrection) as NT apostolic teaching authoritative to the church.

 

[RandyPNW]

The rapture includes both the living and the dead who are in Christ. It is therefore not to save them from the Anti-Christ. A dead person cannot be harmed by anyone anymore. All those in the past who will be raised to immortal life will be included in the rapture.
The rapture is for the purpose of bringing those with him to execute God’s judgments.

When God’s judgments are being executed on earth by Jesus and his raptured saints there will be what is called “the first resurrection” . This “first” resurrection comes some time after the rapture. There is no rapture for the living at the “first” resurrection. It is only a resurrection of dead ones who died during the tribulation and persecution of Anti-Christ and the beast of the sea of nations.

After the “first resurrection” of this time, all the faithful who have died in Christ will be ready to rule with Christ when his kingdom is established and the nations have been judged and ready to submit to Christs rule.

The ones in Christ who survive during this time are not raptured but remain mortal.

the immortal ones will operate in the kingdom in a way similar to how God’s angels operate now.
The mortal ones will operate in a way that God had originally intended His kingdom on earth to operate. And therefore the restoration.

We have some similarities in our views, and some differences. I tend to agree with you that the saints come back with Jesus to judge the earth. And then I think they'll exercise their dominion from heaven, like the angels do, until after the final judgment. We seem agreed on this.

I do think, however, that when Christ comes back it will be in part to save the saints from the abuses of Antichrist. That seems to be the message in 2 Thes 1-2. Obviously, those who have died in Christ are being saved from death, and not from the Antichrist. They're dead!

I do not separate the 1st Resurrection and the Rapture. To me they are the same thing. Christ comes back to save not just those beheaded by the Beast but also to save from death all those who have died in faith, and to deliver those still alive and being persecuted by the Beast.

Thanks for your thoughts. There is significant agreement between us.

 

[One God and Father of All]

We have some similarities in our views, and some differences. I tend to agree with you that the saints come back with Jesus to judge the earth. And then I think they'll exercise their dominion from heaven, like the angels do, until after the final judgment. We seem agreed on this.

I do think, however, that when Christ comes back it will be in part to save the saints from the abuses of Antichrist. That seems to be the message in 2 Thes 1-2. Obviously, those who have died in Christ are being saved from death, and not from the Antichrist. They're dead!

I do not separate the 1st Resurrection and the Rapture. To me they are the same thing. Christ comes back to save not just those beheaded by the Beast but also to save from death all those who have died in faith, and to deliver those still alive and being persecuted by the Beast.

Thanks for your thoughts. There is significant agreement between us.

My view, as a futurist, means my understanding of the book of Revelation is that it all takes place in the future. The events described all happen at the coming of Christ with his raptured saints. it’s the beginning of the end.
That’s why I separate the rapture from the first resurrection described in the book.
If the saints are to come with Christ they would have to be raptured so that they may come with him. it is those, whom I believe, are described as the 4 living creatures and 24 elders around the throne. They are Kings and priest. They are there when the Lamb takes the scroll containing the judgments to be executed.

The question then becomes: “How is it that all the saints can be raptured and resurrected and come with Christ if the book speaks of a first resurrection?”

My answer is that Christs coming is a two-fold event. At his coming he will rapture the saints. And at some point later he will come with them to execute the judgment’s written. By the time he comes with them, there will have been a developmenot of believers who go through the tribulation. And it is those who have died during that time who are the first resurrection. They also will reign with Christ when his kingdom gets established.

I think it’s important to notice that the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation speaks nothing of those believers who are still alive as is spoken of during the rapture

 

[One God and Father of All]

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The word “first” as an adjective implies that there are others.

For example, if I say my first car was a Pontiac it implies I had other cars after that. “first” is an adjective.
”first” can also be used as a noun. If I said my Pontiac had a ”first” gear, then “first” is a noun.

Since “first” in the Greek is an adjective it implies others did follow

 

[Douggg]

1 rapture/resurrection event.

Referred to in...

Matthew 24:40-51

Luke 21:34-36

1Thessalonains4:15-18

1Thessalonians5:9-11

1Corinthians15:51-52

 

[Douggg]

For example, if I say my first car was a Pontiac it implies I had other cars after that. “first” is an adjective.
”first” can also be used as a noun. If I said my Pontiac had a ”first” gear, then “first” is a noun.

In that sentence, gear is a predicate nominative - i.e. a noun. "first" is an adjective. If you had wrote it as first-gear, hyphenated, then, yes ,"first-gear" would be a noun.

If you wrote... "My Pontiac had a dream." "dream" is a noun. The sentence itself, though, is an irrational statement.

If you wrote.... "When it comes to cars, my 1970 Pontiac was my first." In that sentence, first is a predicate adjective.

If you wrote.... "First is a word." "First" is a noun, the subject of the sentence. All words can actually be made a noun in a sentence of that sorts. For example, "Was is a word." Normally, "was" is a past tense verb.

 

[One God and Father of All]

In that sentence, gear is a predicate nominative - i.e. a noun. "first" is an adjective. If you had wrote it as first-gear, hyphenated, then, yes ,"first-gear" would be a noun.

If you wrote... "My Pontiac had a dream." "dream" is a noun. The sentence itself, though, is an irrational statement.

If you wrote.... "When it comes to cars, my 1970 Pontiac was my first." In that sentence, first is a predicate adjective.

If you wrote.... "First is a word." "First" is a noun, the subject of the sentence. All words can actually be made a noun in a sentence of that sorts. For example, "Was is a word." Normally, "was" is a past tense verb.

Yes, thank you. “first” in ”first gear” depends on “gear” in order to be a noun. Like you said it could be hyphenated as “first-gear”. But does not “first-gear” imply at least a second gear or another gear?

 

[One God and Father of All]

If I had part in the “first-resurrection” it implies that there is at least a seocd-resurrection. It would make no sense to say “first resurrection“ if there was none to follow. If there is to be only one resurrection, then I would say that they are to partake in the one or only resurrection and not the first resurrection. Or I might say that they are to partake in the resurrection without including the word “first”.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Therefore, to say “first resurrection “ means that there is a resurrection to follow the first. Which means that those who claim there is only one resurrection is false teaching.

 

[Douggg]

But does not “first-gear” imply at least a second gear or another gear?

Yes. More than one gear.

 

[One God and Father of All]

Yes. More than one gear.

I definitely agree. Happy are those who take part in the first resurrection because a second death has no power over them.
So what has power over those in the second resurrection? A second death, of course.

 

[RandyPNW]

My view, as a futurist, means my understanding of the book of Revelation is that it all takes place in the future. The events described all happen at the coming of Christ with his raptured saints. it’s the beginning of the end.
That’s why I separate the rapture from the first resurrection described in the book.
If the saints are to come with Christ they would have to be raptured so that they may come with him. it is those, whom I believe, are described as the 4 living creatures and 24 elders around the throne. They are Kings and priest. They are there when the Lamb takes the scroll containing the judgments to be executed.

The question then becomes: “How is it that all the saints can be raptured and resurrected and come with Christ if the book speaks of a first resurrection?”

My answer is that Christs coming is a two-fold event. At his coming he will rapture the saints. And at some point later he will come with them to execute the judgment’s written. By the time he comes with them, there will have been a developmenot of believers who go through the tribulation. And it is those who have died during that time who are the first resurrection. They also will reign with Christ when his kingdom gets established.

I think it’s important to notice that the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation speaks nothing of those believers who are still alive as is spoken of during the rapture

It's true that in the only place where "1st resurrection" is mentioned, nothing is said about believers who are still alive--at least not directly. But how can you say that those "given authority to judge" do not include those who had still been alive and granted immortality?

Rev 20.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.

This passage, in particular, focuses rightly on the deliverance of those who had been killed by the Beast. It is not ignoring those who survived, but rather, lauding those who had endured until death.

I also am a Futurist, but not of the Dispensationalist kind. I do not embrace the argument that in order for the glorified Church to return with Christ they must 1st have been "Raptured" 7 years earlier. This is how I often hear it described.

In my view, the Rapture of the Church, along with our glorification, is instantaneous. Therefore, we can immediately appear in heaven with Christ in the clouds as he begins his descent. This takes no time at all for God.

Rather than try to understand the mechanics of how God brings us from A to B, and then from B to A, why not just accept what Scripture teaches, that Christ is coming back to deliver the Church from the Beast and from Death?

As I've said many times now, all of this eschatology comes directly from Dan 7, where the Son of Man is portrayed as coming down from heaven, to establish God's Kingdom on the earth. There is no systematic break down in the process--it is just declared as something that will happen at some point in the future, all at once.

But you're welcome to form your own opinion. I will not respect you any less, since much of what you say is Bible.