As Christ loves the church

[LovebirdsFlying]

Something a woman said today brought back some unpleasant memories for me. If I gave any details of her situation, it would be gossiping and wrong, so I'll talk instead about the unpleasant memories and what they taught me.

My first marriage was abusive by all accounts. Thank God for bringing me out of it. Undercurrent to the more obviously hurtful behavior--the micromanaging, the domestic violence, the substance abuse, the adultery, and the dishonesty that goes along with these things--more subtle words and actions formed the everyday framework. Life with my first husband was a constant barrage of insults under the guise of "only joking," and antagonistic behavior written off as "just messing with you." Make no mistake, it was deliberate and calculated. He would not stop if politely asked to. No, he kept it up until I lost it and started screaming and/or threatening to leave him. The more his putdowns and pranks upset me, the better he liked it, and the funnier he thought it was. My emotional reactions gave him the perfect ammunition to tell me I was crazy and stupid, just like his mother. (Unsurprisingly, he treated her the same way.)

Of course, he was quick to pull out "wives submit to husbands" any time I didn't like what was going on, or he wanted to make sure he got his way in a disagreement. Funny how he always stopped there and didn't go on to "husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the church." Oh, he'd insist that he did indeed love me. Often, especially after an episode of physical abuse or a drug/alcohol relapse, he would be very remorseful and promise to change, but I'm sure you can guess that he always reverted to his customary ways. Even after we divorced, I made numerous attempts to reconcile with him, because he is my children's father and I thought it was the right and proper Christian thing to do. The last attempt was some twenty or so years ago. It came to a screeching halt the first time he "teased" me. I knew from experience, once that starts happening, the rest of it isn't far behind.

I would challenge anybody to please show me in the Bible where it says, "Husbands, troll your wives. Give her a hard time and don't let up if it hurts her. She can't do anything about it anyway, since she is your personal property, and you have the right to toy with her as you please." Is that how Christ loves the church?

From GotQuestions.org comes this tidbit: "The submission of the wife to the husband in Ephesians 5 does not allow the husband to be selfish or domineering. His command is to love (verse 25), and he is responsible before God to fulfill that command. The husband must exercise his authority wisely, graciously, and in the fear of the God to whom he must give an account. When a wife is loved by her husband as the church is loved by Christ, submission is not difficult."

And I say amen to that. Because I now have a loving husband who would never be mean or play with my head. He is reasonable and wants the best for me. I am his wife and partner, not his servant and prisoner. This makes it easy to submit.

 

[Amittai]

Is that how Christ loves the church?

According to too many meddlers, yes

"Submit" means coordinate. Roman couples didn't.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Hi. The subject of the husband/wife relationship has come back up in my life and thoughts. This thread is still on the first page of the forum, and not buried, so I'm bringing it back up instead of starting a new one.

People have recently remarked on how good it is that I build my husband up and respect him. Actually, I do believe I can be overly critical sometimes, and I have told myself, "You will not speak one word of criticism to him today." That's just to let you know, I'm NOT perfect, and I DO need to work on it.

I'm here in this thread specifically to offer advice and suggestions to husbands. Please understand, this is only advice and suggestions. I'm not intending to take authority over you. If any of you believe that advice for husbands should not come from a woman, I invite any man to come into this thread and confirm or deny what I say.

I want it understood, my husband has earned every ounce of the respect I show him. He has elevated my life in amazing ways from where it was before I met him. Thanks to him, I can do things that people in my earlier life had me convinced I wasn't capable of, or wasn't smart enough to do. I will not knowingly disrespect him, nor will I sit in silence while someone else does.

Does this make me some kind of virtuous wife? I don't think so. Here's why. My first husband expected and demanded the same kind of deference and respect from me. He thought I should jump when he told me to. He was all about patriarchal authority; he says, and I do, and that's that. Once he even paraphrased the words to the old hymn "Trust and Obey," and sang it to me inserting himself into the place of Jesus Christ. Specifically, he sang to me, "Trust and obey, for there's no other way to be happy in your husband, but to trust and obey." Context, he was telling me to just shut up and obey him without question, do it because he told me to, and I didn't need to know why. Yes, it's true that in marriage, the husband is in the position of Christ, and the wife is in the position of the church. However, Christ never gives the church commands for His own selfish reasons. His commands are not grievous. He doesn't issue them simply so He can enjoy feeling the power He has over us, or because He gets some kind of rush from watching us hop to it. Make no mistake, there was nothing my ex-husband enjoyed more than feeling like he was large and in charge. By contrast, Christ taught that if you want to be the greatest, you must first be the servant. I believe everybody is due a certain amount of courtesy and respect, but beyond that, what you're owed is what you earn. My ex did precious little to earn the respect I freely give my now-and-forever husband.

My now-and-forever husband always acts in my best interest. Selfish and power-hungry is the last thing he is. He doesn't command. He asks, and for a reason. Everything he wants me to do is, in the long run, what's best for me. And that's what it's all about.

My advice to husbands is, don't expect your wife to treat you like you hung the moon, until you actually get yourself up in that sky and hang it.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Again, thread is a little dusty, but it's still on the front page, so I'm not starting a new one.

Some people may be concerned about me and say I should forget the past, but I think I disagree. Remembering what it was like for me before helps me to be appreciative of how it is now. I may grumble and complain about little annoying things my husband does, but when it's brought to my mind what it was like in my first marriage--well, I just need to remember.

It has come up twice in the past 24 hours, just to remind me. Yesterday, on Facebook, I discussed how my ex used to fat shame me relentlessly by comparing me to 600-pound women working as circus fat ladies. I then posted a photo from back in those days to demonstrate that, in spite of what he was telling me, I really wasn't all that big at the time. If I was even overweight at all, it was just barely.

There is something else about the photo. It was taken at a family gathering at my mother's house. My ex-husband is forcibly tickling me without my consent, while I'm struggling to get away from him. He's physically holding me to keep me in his reach. My family's reaction to seeing him do this to me was to think it's cute and take a picture of it! I keep it now as evidence for those who continue to deny that I was abused, and to remind myself that I wasn't as "fat" as I was being told I was. In addition to the non-consensual tickling, my ex had been verbally baiting and picking on me all evening. My family thought that was funny too. My mother even pointed it out, laughing, while I felt hurt and betrayed. If they know he's attacking me on purpose, why aren't they defending me? If I had spoken a word on my own behalf, of course, they would have all ganged up on me about not being so sensitive and learning to take a joke.

My now-and-forever husband would never do those things, deliberately provoke me so he can call me "crazy" when I finally do snap, or tickle-torture me, either one. My ex refused to stop when I begged him to, saying if I'm laughing, that means I like it. For anyone who needs to know, laughing when you're being tickled is a biological reflex, not a deliberate choice. If someone truly is enjoying something, they wouldn't be begging you to stop, and you wouldn't have to physically restrain them to prevent them from escaping. Also, in the photo, he's the one who's laughing, not me.

My relationship with my mother and siblings is an entirely separate matter, but the photo evidence of this kind of treatment makes me wonder if I was ever really loved in my life, before now. Would you sit back in silence and let a loved one be openly treated this way?

I'll continue in the next post, so this doesn't get overly long.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Tonight, as my husband came home from his evening shift job, I had just woken up. I work part time, but it's night shift. Therefore I sleep during the day, and I do still have some lingering physical disability issues. It didn't bother my husband at all to come home from work and cook supper for both of us. Since he did, I cleaned the kitchen afterward. I'm a whole lot stronger than I used to be, and I was able to do a reasonably thorough job. There is room for improvement, but then again, that's always true. And it occurred to me. In that abusive first marriage, my ex used to inspect the kitchen after I was finished cleaning it, and he expected absolute perfection. If he found one thing--a missed splatter in the corner of the stove, the faucets on the sink not polished, dust on top of the refrigerator--it didn't matter if I had gone to bed hours ago. He would wake me up, slamming and throwing things, yelling and cursing at me, demanding that I get out of bed and clean it. Once, during pregnancy, I started having cramps right after supper and I went to lie down on the couch. He was so angry that I wasn't in the kitchen cleaning it, he stepped behind the couch, lifted it up, and rolled me out of it onto the floor. Then he yelled at me that I'd better get in the kitchen and start washing those dishes NOW! Repeat, I was pregnant at the time. (Besides, if I really was as fat as he kept telling me I was, he wouldn't have been able to easily lift the couch with me on it, would he?)

Of course, all dishes were washed by hand. I was allowed neither a dishwasher nor a microwave, since those things would have made life too easy for me. Nor was I allowed a television, because then I might watch TV all day and not get the housework done. We didn't have a telephone, because that would be a bill to pay. He dictated that I was to use cloth diapers and washcloths, but if I was "good," every now and then he might "reward" me with a package of disposable diapers and baby wipes. That is, if I earned it! We lived in the middle of nowhere, and public transportation was not readily available. He would not allow me to learn to drive, and of course it wasn't possible under those conditions to get a job and earn my own money. He took the children and me out for fast food once a week, but I had to earn that too, by running his bath, laying out his clothes, putting his socks and shoes on for him, and tying his shoes, all with a smile on my face. No grumbling about being his slave! Not one negative word! It's not a matter of being his slave! It's about showing him I love him! That's why he demands these things! Here he was just now, feeling all nice and warm inside, thinking about how much his wife loves him, and I had to go and spoil the moment by complaining! Yeah. Classic "reverse victim" tactics.

If you had asked him at the time why he would neither provide me with anything that even looks like a convenience, nor allow me to earn the income to get it for myself, he would have had an answer ready. He would have said that he works hard all day, and it was only fair that I should have to work hard too. Why should I have it easier than he does? (That, and he was holding back money to drink and drug on. He even went so far as to lie to me about his income. All that time, I thought he wasn't earning the money. It turned out he was earning it all right, he just wasn't bringing it home.)

Back to my original question. Is this how Christ loves the church? He is the model husband. He sacrificed Himself for His bride, the church. "Well, if I died on a cross, it's only fair that you should have to die on a cross too! Why should you have it easier than I do?" That's not how He did things. He suffered on that cross so that we wouldn't have to, even though we as a human race deserve it, and He did not.

Husbands are called to be self-sacrificing for their wives. If a man has a problem with that, but he sure enjoys trotting out "wives submit to your husbands" to get his way, then something is wrong.

 

[com7fy8]

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

If we do things the way Jesus means,

"you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

I love my wife, then, by helping her to do things with rest in Jesus.

 

[com7fy8]

To me, it is clear that we can make sure with God about who we marry. Then we will not be fooled into marrying the wrong person.

So, how did you get with your first husband? Were there things you did, that you learned from so this time you got into a much better marriage?

And did you do things better, this time, so you got with him and did not just fool yourself together with another abuser?

A lot of times, it seems, people do things the wrong way so they get with a wrong person. Then they get all upset against the one they marry and get a divorce. But then they use the same methods and again and even again they marry someone horrible or obviously wrong, in any case.

One time, I got involved the wrong way. Now I see two things > I let myself get into arguing so I was broken enough to make bad choices. And I did not make sure with God about what to do with her.

Some will say that you can't tell because only God can know a person's heart. But God is able to guide us according to what He knows.

So, what can work, I understand, is become able to be guided by God all the time. Then, while sharing with different people, simply do what He has you do. And He can guide you so you don't get connected the wrong way. You don't only go by your feelings and how someone seems to you, but stay with how God guides you.

 

[com7fy8]

About being overweight, I have been able to get self-righteous about overweight people. I think God has been making me more compassionate.

And . . by the way - - I might not give in to eating too much, but I can get into paranoid stuff and self-righteous criticizing and immoral imagination stuff, instead of loving and caring for people.

Oh yes, and there is beauty discrimination, still, that can keep me from loving really.

So . . . don't use my failure as an excuse for your failure!! Because God is easily able to bring us into more mature love relating with joy and peace and creativity. And this has us sharing more and more with God who has us getting real correction of our character > Hebrews 12:4-14.

I think it can be a very good investment to have our weight right. It can mean less wear and tear on our knee joints. And it can help to keep us from having the problems of type 2 adult onset diabetes.

These can be positive reasons.

I would not recommend letting shame and fear drive you to lose weight, but have love reasons, and also not guilt-tripping.

And this is working for my problems. I keep trusting God to change me, not only stopping what is wrong, but also bringing me to discover how He has me loving, and being good with others who are having problems.

There is a difference between criticizing someone, versus how we can be a good example and encourage someone to do better.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for your questions.

Please understand, first of all, that at the time my first husband made fun of my weight and compared me to 600-pound women working as circus fat ladies, I was not in fact overweight. I thought I was--I had been told this about myself since about the third grade--but in reality, my height and weight were proportionate at the time. The numbers tell me I had a healthy body fat percentage. Why was I told I was "fat," if I wasn't? Because various abusive people in my life were playing on my insecurities. Sometimes it was a "joke" and they were "only teasing." Other times, I now understand, they didn't want me to have any confidence in myself because then I might suprass them, and they had to keep me down flat.

It was when I was in third grade that I started to mature physically, significantly ahead of my classmates. Back then, heights and weights were measured right there in the classroom in front of everybody, for school health records. No attempt was made to keep the information private. HIPAA didn't exist yet. Everybody in my class knew that I weighed the most, other than the teacher. Nobody cared that I was also the tallest and most physically developed, other than the teacher, and therefore *should* have weighed the most. Furthermore, it was only by anywhere from 5 to 15 pounds that I weighed the most. Yes, that's right, the smallest kid in the class weighed less than I did by only 15 pounds, while I was at least a head taller and was beginning pubertal changes while the others hadn't yet started with all that. None of that mattered. In my mind, and in the minds of my classmates, I was "fat," and thus began my mental image. I didn't actually enter the "obese" category until after I was married and had two childbirths. Once that started happening, I couldn't tell, because I saw no difference whatsoever in my body. In my own eyes, that's what I looked like all along, and that's what other people had been telling me I looked like all along. It didn't seem like a change to me.

How did I end up with him? I married him right out of high school, head full of romantic nonsense, and just wasn't mature enough or experienced enough to know better. When he teased, people in my family were quick to defend him and tell me I was being too sensitive. They had always treated me the same way, and it took me years of therapy to realize this is not how you treat loved ones. I have little to no contact with them nowadays either. They never had my best interests at heart.