Yet Again, At Planet Fitness...

[Pommer]

Affirmative therapy is not real therapy.

Somebody is doing the job that they have trained for (sometimes for decades) “wrong”?
Sure.

And I didn't make that up. That's what therapists have said. Secondly what's you evid4nce that the therapy model led to transitioning? WPATH is where transitioning and the affirmative model came from. And we all know what a garbage organization WPATH us.

You‘d like to treat a highly rare and unique “birth defect” only by trying a variety of ways to get these people to understand that they are “delusional”.
Understanding that one is delusional doesn’t break the delusion itself, so they’re miserable in the body that they possess (and some would like to change their bodies), but we as a society cannot support that because somebody else’s God wouldn’t like it.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Somebody is doing the job that they have trained for (sometimes for decades) “wrong”?
Sure.

There's no job in medicine or science that requires decades of training.

You‘d like to treat a highly rare and unique “birth defect” only by trying a variety of ways to get these people to understand that they are “delusional”.
Understanding that one is delusional doesn’t break the delusion itself, so they’re miserable in the body that they possess (and some would like to change their bodies), but we as a society cannot support that because somebody else’s God wouldn’t like it.

Then why doesn't that apply across the board regarding other types of delusion? Or other types of dysphoria for that matter?

 

[Pommer]

There's no job in medicine or science that requires decades of training.

A physician or psychiatrist isn’t at the pinnacle of their art as soon as they leave their “schooling”.

Then why doesn't that apply across the board regarding other types of delusion? Or other types of dysphoria for that matter?

Think of how someone (who genuinely believes themselves to be a horse (or unicorn, FTM)), witness how people who only claim is that they are the opposite gender, they still identify aa “human” beings), are “treated”.
And since this hypothetical “delusion” would seem to be exceedingly rare, no clinics are going to be popping up any time soon and we can ignore them like some would like to ignore our transgender friends.

 

[Ceallaigh]

A physician or psychiatrist isn’t at the pinnacle of their art as soon as they leave their “schooling”.

If you want to portray them as trainees, I won't argue the matter.

Think of how someone (who genuinely believes themselves to be a horse (or unicorn, FTM)), witness how people who only claim is that they are the opposite gender, they still identify aa “human” beings), are “treated”.
And since this hypothetical “delusion” would seem to be exceedingly rare, no clinics are going to be popping up any time soon and we can ignore them like some would like to ignore our transgender friends.

So the problem for transgenders is being ignored instead of being paid attention to. It's a matter of attention seeking. Gaining dominance. That does seem to be the difference between them and otherkin. But of course there's a lot more versions of delusion/dysphoria. Pretty much any condition that involves someone identifying as something they're not. I'm reminded of the movie Breaking Away where a bicycle racer from Boomington, Indiana ideified as being an native Italian. The actual Italian racers from Italy were not amused.

 

[RileyG]

Transgendered people made their own choice. They cannot force everyone to accept their choice if they are not comfortable. Their disordered feelings do trump the rights of others. Period. It's the consequences of their decision.

 

[RileyG]

If you want to portray them as trainees, I won't argue the matter.

So the problem for transgenders is being ignored instead of being paid attention to. It's a matter of attention seeking. Gaining dominance. That does seem to be the difference between them and otherkin. But of course there's a lot more versions of delusion/dysphoria. Pretty much any condition that involves someone identifying as something they're not. I'm reminded of the movie Breaking Away where a bicycle racer from Boomington, Indiana ideified as being an native Italian. The actual Italian racers from Italy were not amused.

A lot of them have other mental illnesses and personality disorders that make them attention seeking. Even in countries where LGBT behavior is largely accepted, many of them continue to have suicidal ideation and are unhappy. It's mind-blowing.

 

[rjs330]

Somebody is doing the job that they have trained for (sometimes for decades) “wrong”?
Sure.

They weren't trained for decades in affirmative therapy for trans kids. There were extremely few therapists that did that. One of the first to specialize realized that it wasn't therapy and eventually stopped. She was considered one of the real experts in the field.

You‘d like to treat a highly rare and unique “birth defect” only by trying a variety of ways to get these people to understand that they are “delusional”.
Understanding that one is delusional doesn’t break the delusion itself, so they’re miserable in the body that they possess (and some would like to change their bodies), but we as a society cannot support that because somebody else’s God wouldn’t like it.

We should be treating mental health disorders with mental health therapy. Therapy is what helps them discover the issues behind why they may feel they are trans. Perhaps they are gay instead. Maybe they have trauma. Maybe they have been duped into believing they are trans by social media. Maybe they are just a boy who likes to play house which certainly doesn't make him trans. There could be all kinds of issues.

And look Gid wasn't mentioned even once.

 

[RileyG]

This isn’t about God. It’s about the rights of women and not having men who think they are women in their private areas.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I did say research was ongoing, and I never claimed it was conclusive.

Ok...lemme know when they can detect "gender".

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sort of.

We did this already.

I can show you the post where I mocked this answer... but it's faith based nonsense. It's hokum.

Yeah, that's a pretty good example...the circular definition.

The more annoying one imo typically goes like...

Left- gender is a set of clothing, behaviors, social/cultural norms, and personal feelings
Us- when women wear suits and pants and men wear drag....those are transgender people?
Left- well no...but they can be...
Us- when men decide to become nurses and women do math or leave the kitchen...those are transgender people?
Left- well no...but they can be....
Us- then we must be talking about personal feelings?
Left- but it's more than that....
Us- what more?
Left- gender is a set of clothing, behaviors, social/cultural norms, and personal feelings
Us- are you having stroke?

That one is also a circular loop.

If I ask what you mean by sort of...

You'll start down at the "but it's more than that".

 

[Ana the Ist]

I never understood why transgender defenders make such arguments about gender being a social construct. It just cheapens the idea of gender and thus the idea of being transgenderism itself.

The biggest reason they probably make these arguments is because of feminism. That crowd is really into the idea of gender being a social construct. I know one trans-woman who used to make arguments for gender being evolutionary/hardwired. One day a feminist woman had a stern talk to her about how gender is just a social construct. Suddenly this trans-woman went from making arguments that have the potential for some solid foundation into making arguments that are made of sand.

I currently consider myself agnostic about transgenderism, but the idea of it being legitimate doesn't disturb me. It's just.. the arguments I see commonly presented.. I can't blame others for rejecting.

The study pointed out about the structure of the brain resembling the gender they claim to be is more promising. I understand the sample size is low.. why don't they put more effort into churning up more studies looking at gender from that direction? Give people something to grasp on other than social construct nonsense and "respect".

Uhhh...without being too complicated, I think the whole "social construct" nonsense tends to revert back to Hume and Rousseau arguments on the "state of man in nature". That's a pretty stupid argument between a couple of relatively smart guys that's embedded into liberal democracy or western democracy in general.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A physician or psychiatrist isn’t at the pinnacle of their art as soon as they leave their “schooling”.

Think of how someone (who genuinely believes themselves to be a horse (or unicorn, FTM)), witness how people who only claim is that they are the opposite gender, they still identify aa “human” beings), are “treated”.
And since this hypothetical “delusion” would seem to be exceedingly rare, no clinics are going to be popping up any time soon and we can ignore them like some would like to ignore our transgender friends.

How about "non-binary"....aka the hypothetical unexplainable 3rd option that isn't male or female but nobody knows what it is?

Is that real or imaginary also?

 

[rjs330]

Think of how someone (who genuinely believes themselves to be a horse (or unicorn, FTM)), witness how people who only claim is that they are the opposite gender, they still identify aa “human” beings), are “treated”.
And since this hypothetical “delusion” would seem to be exceedingly rare, no clinics are going to be popping up any time soon and we can ignore them like some would like to ignore our transgender friends.

What does opposite gender mean? Opposite of what? Is someone claiming they aren't human beings?

Is rarity the deciding factor if the belief is a delusion or not?

Some would like to.ignore transgender people? Who said that? Man you liberals come up with the craziest accusations. I wish I kept a list of them. Maybe someday, that day is not today.

 

[A2SG]

Ok...lemme know when they can detect "gender".

I don't know of any way of doing so without dissecting the brain...and even that wouldn't be conclusive.

So, I guess, we're left with simply letting people figure out their genders for themselves.

We did this already.

I can show you the post where I mocked this answer... but it's faith based nonsense. It's hokum.

Yes, your contempt has been noted. If you don't mind, I'll remain unconvinced that everything that is different from the assumed norm is automatically considered "wrong."

If I ask what you mean by sort of...

You'll start down at the "but it's more than that".

I explained it pretty well the first time I said it. I don't need to elaborate.

-- A2SG, if you truly want to understand what I mean, read it when I say it.....

 

[Ceallaigh]

I don't know of any way of doing so without dissecting the brain...and even that wouldn't be conclusive.

So, I guess, we're left with simply letting people figure out their genders for themselves.

In other words it's imaginary.

 

[A2SG]

In other words it's imaginary.

Is your sense of who you are imaginary?

-- A2SG, dunno about you, but my identity isn't.....

 

[BPPLEE]

In other words it's imaginary.

Figure out your gender? What has the world come to?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Is your sense of who you are imaginary?

-- A2SG, dunno about you, but my identity isn't.....

This is about what's contrary or imaginary to what someone actually is.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Figure out your gender?

That's what schools are trying to get little kids to do.

What has the world come to?

Indeed.

 

[A2SG]

This is about what's contrary or imaginary to what someone actually is.

No, it's about you thinking you know someone else's identity better than they do.

I wonder how you'd react if I started claiming I know your identity better than you do.

-- A2SG, you okay with that?