Would you vote for a person who believes or does these things?

[Arcangl86]

I would say most of them are provably true and that is not even a complete list!

Please, prove them then.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Would you vote for a person who believes or does these things?

1) claims to be a Christian but shows us over and over again that he (she) does not take the Word of Christ seriously (just does whatever...)
2) claims to be in favor of the US's chosen form of government but constantly breaks duly enacted laws, including the tenets of the Constitution
3) allows any STRANGER into our country without being vetted, when many of these strangers are robbing, raping and murdering Americans
4) someone who is using Americans' tax dollars to support those who crash the border, @ the same time cutting benefits to Americans
5) someone who has caused homelessness to rise
6) someone who allows law-breakers to have the jobs Americans once had (or could have had)

Me?

I would never, ever do that.

Would you?

Y

or

N?

1: Being a Christian is not a prerequisite for holding office in my opinion. I'd rather have a competent and relatively wise non-Christian than an incompetent Christian fool. I'd be more suspicious of a person who claimed to be a Christian but obviously wasn't.

2: Depends on the laws and the interpretation of the Constitution. In most cases probably no, but I can imagine cases where it could be yes.

3: Depends on the degree of vetting you mean etc. Back in the day immigrants were allowed through Ellis Island in New York with virtually no vetting of their background etc. They had to go through the immigration process but it didn't include background checks or anything like that. They didn't even have to give their real name.

4: Again, in general no, but it depends on the specifics. I'm assuming you make reference to the current border situation on the Mexican border. In that case, I do not support current policy.

5: It depends, the fact is that if we are ever going to fix the massive problems with our economy and our society in general, it is going to require policies that hurt. Medicine sometimes is painful. The question is would you rather die slowly to avoid the pain, or take the medicine and eventually be healthy again? Cutting a lot of our government spending may hurt a lot of people who are living off the government, but it needs to be done.

6: I don't know what this means. Do you mean giving jobs to people who get out of jail? if so, then it's not the governments job to give jobs to anyone per say. However it would be wise to try and set up help for convicts to get jobs, because if they can't find productive work to support themselves, it will undoubtedly push them back into crime which does more harm than good, and the government will just end up paying for them to live in prison.

 

[Postvieww]

Please, prove them then.

3) allows any STRANGER into our country without being vetted, when many of these strangers are robbing, raping and murdering Americans

Let's just look at one at a time. All one has to do here is watch the daily news. But here are some sources for you.

7.2M Migrants Have Illegally Crossed US Border Under Biden, Exceeding the Populations of 36 States?

The immigration statistics were shared on X and originated in an article that was published by Fox News.

www.snopes.com

Under Biden More Illegal Immigrants Have Entered Through The Southern Border Than The Population Of 36 States

www.gop.gov

Joe Biden Secretly Flew 320,000 illegal immigrants into the United States

www.gop.gov

Matthews: Illegal immigrants double under Biden — and that’s just the start

While most immigrants are just looking for a chance to grasp the American Dream and build a better life for themselves and their families, Border Patrol has seen a significant increase in foreign n…

thehill.com

US Immigration Reform: Stop Illegal Immigration | FAIR

FAIR leads the fight to end illegal immigration, secure US borders, reduce immigration levels, & find solutions to reduce the negative impact of uncontrolled immigration.

www.fairus.org

We could do this all day but people will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe but facts are facts. Number 3 from the OP is a proven fact.

 

[Postvieww]

1: Being a Christian is not a prerequisite for holding office in my opinion. I'd rather have a competent and relatively wise non-Christian than an incompetent Christian fool. I'd be more suspicious of a person who claimed to be a Christian but obviously wasn't.

I believe our leaders are in their positions because of the perfect will of God or the permissive will of God. It is sad but true many cannot tell the difference.

Let me try to explain.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Sometimes God will allow a leader for reasons other than his perfect will. Sometimes to bless the people ,His perfect will , and sometime to teach, correct or punish that would be His permissive will.

In the OT God at times allowed leaders the people clamored for but not the one God preferred.

I agree being a Christian is not a requirement but many Christians try to impose that standard without much success.

You can disagree and many on this forum will but it is my sincere belief Trump was in office because God chose him and Biden is in office because God allowed him.

In any event both were ordained of God!

 

[Arcangl86]

Let's just look at one at a time. All one has to do here is watch the daily news. But here are some sources for you.

Let's take a look then.

7.2M Migrants Have Illegally Crossed US Border Under Biden, Exceeding the Populations of 36 States?

The immigration statistics were shared on X and originated in an article that was published by Fox News.

www.snopes.com

Yeah, you aren't starting off strong. This is about the amount of people encountered by the Border Patrol, not the amount of people let in. In fact, it shows that the Biden Admin actually deports a slightly larger percentage of those encounters than the Trump admin did. That's strange behavior for somebody who supposedly lets in any stranger without vetting.

Under Biden More Illegal Immigrants Have Entered Through The Southern Border Than The Population Of 36 States

www.gop.gov

Your first link was a fact check of this story, so I don't feel the need to get into it again.

Joe Biden Secretly Flew 320,000 illegal immigrants into the United States

www.gop.gov

Those people are vetted and admitted under his parole authority.
Fact Focus: Claims Biden administration is secretly flying migrants into the country are unfounded
Once again, not an example of letting in anybody with no vetting.

Matthews: Illegal immigrants double under Biden — and that’s just the start

While most immigrants are just looking for a chance to grasp the American Dream and build a better life for themselves and their families, Border Patrol has seen a significant increase in foreign n…

thehill.com

Once again, this opinion piece looks at encounters, which is people being stopped by the Border Patrol, and tries to make it seem as if they were all admitted into the United States, without looking at how many of them were expelled.

US Immigration Reform: Stop Illegal Immigration | FAIR

FAIR leads the fight to end illegal immigration, secure US borders, reduce immigration levels, & find solutions to reduce the negative impact of uncontrolled immigration.

www.fairus.org

There is no story here, just a link to FAIR's news page.

We could do this all day but people will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe

Yup. Like your belief that Biden allows any stranger into the country without vetting.

but facts are facts.

Yup, and I've shown the facts in this case.

Number 3 from the OP is a proven fact.

Yeah, it's not.

Is there a serious issue involving our southern border that needs to be addressed? Yes, I agree there is. But a lot of that is tied to resources and US law. And even if that wasn't true, the border leaking a bit with unlawful entries being caught is not the same thing as letting people in without vetting them. And that doesn't even take into account the millions that cross the border legally on a regular basis. Those people also have to be processed and let into the country. If the border were truly open like Republicans love to claim, then CBP wouldn't be encountering or removing anybody between official ports of entry, or for that matter would those ports exist.

 

[Simon_Templar]

I believe our leaders are in their positions because of the perfect will of God or the permissive will of God. It is sad but true many cannot tell the difference.

Let me try to explain.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Sometimes God will allow a leader for reasons other than his perfect will. Sometimes to bless the people ,His perfect will , and sometime to teach, correct or punish that would be His permissive will.

In the OT God at times allowed leaders the people clamored for but not the one God preferred.

I agree being a Christian is not a requirement but many Christians try to impose that standard without much success.

You can disagree and many on this forum will but it is my sincere belief Trump was in office because God chose him and Biden is in office because God allowed him.

In any event both were ordained of God!

I don't disagree, provided I understand what you mean.

My point in that statement was just this... government officials have a job to do, just like anyone else. What matters is how good they are at that job.

Would you rather have a Christian who is a terrible mechanic try to fix your car, or an atheist who is a great mechanic?

Granted, personal character does matter of course. Would you rather have an honest mechanic or a cheating mechanic? But it is also not a guarantee that they can do the job. Just because a mechanic is honest doesn't mean he can actually fix your car.

There is also the matter that behavior isn't the same thing as allegiance.
It is possible to have a Muslim or a Hindu, or an Atheist who has been conditioned to behave morally and honorably, but they don't believe in or have allegiance to the true God. Where as there might be a Christian who believes in God and is trying to serve God, but has been habituated to bad behavior and has never learned good behavior.

 

[Postvieww]

Would you rather have a Christian who is a terrible mechanic try to fix your car, or an atheist who is a great mechanic?

Great point!

 

[discombobulated1]

3: Depends on the degree of vetting you mean etc. Back in the day immigrants were allowed through Ellis Island in New York with virtually no vetting of their background etc. They had to go through the immigration process but it didn't include background checks or anything like that. They didn't even have to give their real name.

One could validly make the point that this was INCREDIBLY STUPID!

I don't believe in allowing people into our country un-vetted, whether it was way back in the day at Elllis Island or wherever

 

[helmut]

1) claims to be a Christian but shows us over and over again that he (she) does not take the Word of Christ seriously (just does whatever...)
2) claims to be in favor of the US's chosen form of government but constantly breaks duly enacted laws, including the tenets of the Constitution

Sounds like Trump.

But the other points don't fit to Trump.

 

[discombobulated1]

Our founders were really knowledgeable about human nature and wrote about it.

THAT is why we cannot let just anyone into our country. Look at us today: one of the highest, if not the highest murder rate in the world, high divorce rate, high crime and now look who is in the WH! He couldn't care less that there is a federal law against people from other countries coming into ours.

If one doesn't like the law, one works to change it. Those who break the law... different story. But then some people are above the law, as we all know. you just have to know the right people and voila' you get a pass

 

[helmut]

Look at us today: one of the highest, if not the highest murder rate in the world

… which is a result of the NRA which blocks any attempt to regulate the possession of arms.

high divorce rate

This is for decades, it doesn't matter whether the POTUS was red or blue.

now look who is in the WH!

The USA is one of the richest countries in the world, and now look who is in the WH.

 

[discombobulated1]

5: It depends, the fact is that if we are ever going to fix the massive problems with our economy and our society in general, it is going to require policies that hurt. Medicine sometimes is painful. The question is would you rather die slowly to avoid the pain, or take the medicine and eventually be healthy again? Cutting a lot of our government spending may hurt a lot of people who are living off the government, but it needs to be done.

oh, like Congress people?

I hear ya. Cut their salaries. They have access to insider trading anyway whereas everyday people do not.

 

[discombobulated1]

… which is a result of the NRA which blocks any attempt to regulate the possession of arms.

Women in domestic violence situations (in which many murders occur)

should have a gun. Most of them don't

So much for your rant agains the NRA

 

[helmut]

Women in domestic violence situations (in which many murders occur)

should have a gun. Most of them don't

That would result in more additional deaths than deaths that could be avoided.

So much for your rant agains the NRA

Its pure statistics: For every murder prevented by guns you have more deaths (murder, accidents) that outweight the prevention.

 

[Laodicean60]

That would result in more additional deaths than deaths that could be avoided.

At whose expense, the victims?

That would result in more additional deaths than deaths that could be avoided.

Its pure statistics: For every murder prevented by guns you have more deaths (murder, accidents) that outweight the prevention.

What you don't understand is that normal people don't go out and kill people with their guns.

 

[helmut]

What you don't understand is that normal people don't go out and kill people with their guns.

There are countries where burglars normally carry no guns. But in a country where you expect the people you want to rob may have a gun, virtually every burglar has a gun - and will use it when he wants to escape safely.

And there are normal people who have children that understand how to get access to their parent's gun, and are careless enough to kill another child without intention.

You cannot imagine every scenario, nor do I. So instead of speculating, one should look at statistics which show: Stricter rules on guns mean less deaths. This is a fact.

 

[Laodicean60]

There are countries where burglars normally carry no guns. But in a country where you expect the people you want to rob may have a gun, virtually every burglar has a gun - and will use it when he wants to escape safely.

Most burglaries happen when people are not home and burglars avoid homes that have dogs. For those countries that don't have guns and a nut case decides to invade your home you better have a bigger weapon especially if you are female.

And there are normal people who have children that understand how to get access to their parent's gun, and are careless enough to kill another child without intention.

I agree here. We do need laws.

You cannot imagine every scenario, nor do I. So instead of speculating, one should look at statistics which show: Stricter rules on guns mean less deaths. This is a fact.

Humans will kill each other whether they have a gun or not because if you look at the 2021 homicide map you'll see that a lot of people were killed in countries that have better gun laws than we do. If the world keeps going the way it is we all should be worried about nukes because they do a better job at killing humans than every gun in the world. Arms sales is a business for many countires and criminals will find them in the black market.

 

[HopeSings]

I don't see Jesus running as a politican at all.

 

[ralliann]

How about hold a rally resulting in violent attack to overturn valid election?
I would never vote for such a theoretical(?) person.

This is sheer speculation.

 

[Laodicean60]

I don't see Jesus running as a politican at all.

Because he doesn't need to and He'll set up his government in the end.