Works Relation to Salvation

[B Griffin]

No one said they never sinned, all have sinned, but that doesn't mean all keeps sinning and no one can overcome just like the hero's did in scripture as shown in Hebrews 11, so where am I rejecting it from the bible in any post you have responded to.

How are we covered by the blood of Christ? You seem to think once we come to Christ we stay in our sinful state and no need to do anything else and Christ blood covers us for everything we do regardless if we repent or not or try to overcome, but this is not a biblical teaching- there is no teaching that we can perpetually sin and be saved. Hebrews 10:26-30 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15

No one ever said that they did, which is why Jesus had to become our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins- but its not a onetime event and Jesus covers our sins so we can keep on sinning. We must take up our cross daily. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, not in sin.

I think you responded to Gary as if it were me. My tone is not the same as his.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I think you responded to Gary as if it were me. My tone is not the same as his.

I was responding to you, I know the difference between your posts and Gary's posts.

 

[B Griffin]

Thats not a claim he made.

I said:

The law of sin and death says the wages of sin is death. A person's sins earn him a wage, and the wage earned is death (eternal death). But the free gift of God (and a free gift by definition is not earned) is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Christianity has no concept of mankind surviving the eternal judgment of God outside sinless perfection (accomplished only by the man Jesus Christ) and forgiveness of sins (available from Jesus Christ to every other human being).

That again is untrue.
So here we have it. Sin is not necessary at all. Job was a perfect and upright man who lived according to God's law. If we read further into Job we see Job sought out the poor and needy and helped everyone as he was very wealthy. And there will be a people at the end who will keep God's law. Plus the testimony of Jesus is the law of God.

 

[B Griffin]

I was responding to you, I know the difference between your posts and Gary's posts.

Just wasn't expecting to see replies to me in a post that was a reply to Gary.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I said:

I don't see where he says we don't need Jesus and not a teaching I have ever heard him say, but he can speak for himself.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Just wasn't expecting to see replies to me in a post that was a reply to Gary.

That happens sometimes on an open forum.

Anyway, appreciate the chat and wish you nothing but the best.

God bless!

 

[Gary K]

I said:

You are not understanding what I meant. I don't know if you just overlooked my answer to you or you are ignoring it so I'll repost it here.

Works Relation to Salvation

I'm so confused, you have stated over and over again we do not need to keep God's law, but now stating being in the flesh (sin) is opposed to God's law, which is what I have been saying for a while now which you have disagreed stating we do not need to keep God's law even in this very post, so...

www.christianforums.com

 

[B Griffin]

Sorry you don't believe in the scriptures that God has a people who overcomes Rev 14:12, Rev 3:21, and God's Word is the manual to show us how to do it, but sadly many people read the promises and skips the part that requires our participation. James 1:22 Rev 22:14

Do you understand the difference between sinned and sinning?

We all have sinned, but that doesn't mean though Christ we have to keep sinning, not unless we believe the devil has more power to keep us in sin than Jesus does to keep us from sin.

"Sinned" is punctiliar and in the past tense. Sinning is linear and in the present tense. I see you edited that part out.

 

[B Griffin]

You are not understanding what I meant. I don't know if you just overlooked my answer to you or you are ignoring it so I'll repost it here.

Works Relation to Salvation

I'm so confused, you have stated over and over again we do not need to keep God's law, but now stating being in the flesh (sin) is opposed to God's law, which is what I have been saying for a while now which you have disagreed stating we do not need to keep God's law even in this very post, so...

www.christianforums.com

I was not ignoring you. Just busy on another post.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

"Sinned" is punctiliar and in the past tense. Sinning is linear and in the present tense. I see you edited that part out.

I edited what out? I did not edit anything out of my post, I edited to add scripture references, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Yes, sinned is past tense the scripture says all have sinned.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Not that all continues to sin, but as shown through scripture God has a people who overcomes. We can stay in our sinful state or we can come to Jesus and through Him we can overcome sin and obey His commandments. Rev 14:12 through faith and love Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exo 20:6 John 15:10

 

[B Griffin]

I don't reject scripture. It seems you are the one rejecting it as the Bible tells us there there have been people translated directly to heaven and that God declared were perfect and will be keeping God's law at the end of time. Does that mean all those people never sinned in their lives? Of course not, so they still need to have their previous sins covered by the blood of Jesus.

Does perfect obedience from this day forward cover my past sins? NO. Thus the blood of Jesus is both necessary and sufficient in terms of logic.

I will try my best to generalize what you mean by this answer. Please tell me if I undertstand you correctly. Are you saying:

When a person's sins are forgiven, only the sins of his past are forgiven. Then, from that point forward, he has the God-given ability and the responsibility to avoid sinning in the future. It is possible for that person to live dozens more years without committing one single sin. If he lives out the rest of his life without sinning again, then looking back on his life and bifricate it into two parts. The first part of his life, he was a sinner who was forgiven. The second part of his life, he was a righteous man, obeying in all ways everything God wanted him to do and in all ways avoiding everything God did not want him to do. In short, he was perfect in every way the second part of his life.

SabbathBlessings can opine on this as well. I think she has indicated very much the same POV.

 

[Gary K]

I will try my best to generalize what you mean by this answer. Please tell me if I undertstand you correctly. Are you saying:

When a person's sins are forgiven, only the sins of his past are forgiven. Then, from that point forward, he has the God-given ability and the responsibility to avoid sinning in the future. It is possible for that person to live dozens more years without committing one single sin. If he lives out the rest of his life without sinning again, then looking back on his life and bifricate it into two parts. The first part of his life, he was a sinner who was forgiven. The second part of his life, he was a righteous man, obeying in all ways everything God wanted him to do and in all ways avoiding everything God did not want him to do. In short, he was perfect in every way the second part of his life.

SabbathBlessings can opine on this as well. I think she has indicated very much the same POV.

You distort everything I say.

I never said that. I said IF I kept the law perfectly I would still need the blood if Jesus to cover my sins. We're not perfect yet so all of us need the blood of Jesus to cover our sins. If you will go back and reread my original post to you I said that it was not necessary for us to sin. And then I gave the examples from scripture and you jumped to the conclusion that I said we no longer need forgiveness.

That was a kneejerk reaction to something I never said.

 

[B Griffin]

I edited what out? I did not edit anything out of my post, I edited to add scripture references, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Sorry, I must be confused. the sinned verses sinning comment, then it was gone, now it's back again.

Yes, sinned is past tense the scripture says all have sinned.

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Not that all continues to sin, but as shown through scripture God has a people who overcomes. We can stay in our sinful state or we can come to Jesus and through Him we can overcome sin and obey His commandments. Rev 14:12 through faith and love Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exo 20:6 John 15:10

Ironically, my definition of overcoming sin is more stringent than yours. I do not allow for any sin. Ephesians 4:24 says the new man is created according to God in true righteousness and holiness. In my way of thinking, when the Bible tells us we are created "according to God" in "true righteousness and holiness", it means what is says. In the the new man we are TRULY righteous and TRULY holy. And the devil can not touch us because His seed remains in us (1 John 3, 5).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sorry, I must be confused. the sinned verses sinning comment, then it was gone, now it's back again.

No, never changed it.

Ironically, my definition of overcoming sin is more stringent than yours. I do not allow for any sin. Ephesians 4:24 says the new man is created according to God in true righteousness and holiness. In my way of thinking, when the Bible tells us we are created "according to God" in "true righteousness and holiness", it means what is says. In the the new man we are TRULY righteous and TRULY holy. And the devil can not touch us because His seed remains in us (1 John 3, 5).

Weird, because you admitted you sin daily....

I sin, you sin, we all sin. And we do it on a daily basis. This is a fact.

And you have argued over again that it's impossible to not to sin. So, you seem to be arguing that we can sin (break God's law) and still be in Christ, but that's not a biblical teaching Rom 8:7-8 so I'm not really sure if you know what you're saying or perhaps you can clarify.

Can we break God's law (sin 1 John 3:4, Rom 7:7) and be in Christ? Or do we follow the scripture on how we can overcome and be considered one of His saints (saved)

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And what we do according to Jesus, if one slips and falls so, we can be cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

 

[B Griffin]

You distort everything I say.

I never said that. I said IF I kept the law perfectly I would still need the blood if Jesus to cover my sins. We're not perfect yet so all of us need the blood of Jesus to cover our sins. If you will go back and reread my original post to you I said that it was not necessary for us to sin. And then I gave the examples from scripture and you jumped to the conclusion that I said we no longer need forgiveness.

That was a kneejerk reaction to something I never said.

Ok, I missread what you were saying about Job and others. That's why I asked.

 

[Gary K]

No, never changed it.

Weird, because you admitted you sin daily....

And have argued over again that it's impossible to not to sin. So, you seem to be arguing that we can sin (break God's law) and still be in Christ, but that's not a biblical teaching Rom 8:7-8 so I'm not really sure if you know what you're saying or perhaps you can clarify.

Can we break God's law (sin 1 John 3:4, Rom 7:7) and be in Christ? Or do we follow the scripture on how we can overcome and be considered one of His saints (saved) those who overcome.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I think he believes in OSAS.

 

[Gary K]

Ok, I missread what you were saying about Job and others. That's why I asked.

You asked?

 

[B Griffin]

No, never changed it.

Weird, because you admitted you sin daily....

And have argued over again that it's impossible to not to sin. So, you seem to be arguing that we can sin (break God's law) and still be in Christ, but that's not a biblical teaching Rom 8:7-8 so I'm not really sure if you know what you're saying or perhaps you can clarify.

Can we break God's law (sin 1 John 3:4, Rom 7:7) and be in Christ? Or do we follow the scripture on how we can overcome and be considered one of His saints (saved) those who overcome.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Here is the clarification:

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (Jn 3:6) The flesh is corrupt but the spirit of the one in whom Christ lives is righteous, just as He is righteous. We must contend with the flesh and its evil desires (Gal 5 -- "The flesh lusts against the Spirit") until we die, but after that we will be free of it forever (let me know if you need Scripture references).

I do not see any evidence in your writings that you understand that Christians (people in whom Christ lives) must contend with their own sinful flesh, and as a result I do not see in any of your writings anything that has value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col 2:23).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Here is the clarification:

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (Jn 3:6) The flesh is corrupt but the spirit of the one in whom Christ lives is righteous, just as He is righteous. We must contend with the flesh and its evil desires (Gal 5 -- "The flesh lusts against the Spirit") until we die, but after that we will be free of it forever (let me know if you need Scripture references).

I do not see any evidence in your writings that you understand that Christians (people in whom Christ lives) must contend with their own sinful flesh, and as a result I do not see in any of your writings anything that has value against the indulgence of the flesh (Col 2:23).

What steps do we need to take us being in the flesh to being born of the Spirit. You keep quoting the end result, but not the solution to get there.

 

[B Griffin]

You asked?

I asked you to tell me if I understood you correctly, and you said I didn't.