Islam works based faith

[dogs4thewin]

How do Muslims know when they have earned their way to God? Since I know that you all are based on works giving, doing the Hajj and fasting as a religion for a month, so how can you know when you have done enough? Or is there ever enough? Do you just wait till you die to find out?

 

[Niblo]

How do Muslims know when they have earned their way to God? Since I know that you all are based on works giving, doing the Hajj and fasting as a religion for a month, so how can you know when you have done enough? Or is there ever enough? Do you just wait till you die to find out?

How can we be sure that we will enter Paradise? Because we have faith in Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla).

On the Day of Judgment all will stand before Him. Each will be given a record of their lives. Those whose book is placed in their right hand will be admitted to Paradise; and those whose book is placed in their left will not.

It is said that a record of good deeds is made straight away; but that a record of bad deeds is delayed for some hours, to allow for repentance. Even when a sin is recorded it can be erased by sincere and genuine repentance (tawbah): ‘But He will overlook the bad deeds of those who have faith, do good deeds, and believe in what has been sent down to Muhammad - the truth from their Lord - and He will put them into a good state’ (Muhammad: 2).

Not only does sincere and genuine repentance wipe out an evil deed, it transforms that deed into a good one: ‘Those who repent, believe, and do good deeds, Allāh will change the evil deeds of such people into good ones. He is most forgiving, most merciful’ (Al-Furqan: 70).

Every day of their lives - many times a day - Muslims speak the words: ‘The Lord of Mercy’; ‘The Giver of Mercy’; ‘The Compassionate’; ‘The Merciful’. These are the Beloved‘s Names. We did not give them to Him, He chose them for Himself. Of all His Names these are His favorite. That is why we are asked to speak them so often - so that we do not forget Who it is that loves us; Who it is that binds us to Himself with ties of tenderness, mercy and forgiveness.

All that we do should be done for the love of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla alone, and not out of fear of punishment; nor for any other reason. This will suffice.

Perhaps you should think on this:

‘How does it help, my brothers, when someone who has never done a single good act claims to have faith? Will that faith bring salvation? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them: “I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty,” without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that? In the same way faith, if good deeds do not go with it, is quite dead. But someone may say: “So you have faith and I have good deeds? Show me this faith of yours without deeds, then! It is by my deeds that I will show you my faith. You believe in the one God - that is creditable enough, but even the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Fool! Would you not like to know that faith without deeds is useless?’ (James 2:14-20).

Have a good day.

 

[dogs4thewin]

How can we be sure that we will enter Paradise? Because we have faith in Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla).

On the Day of Judgment all will stand before Him. Each will be given a record of their lives. Those whose book is placed in their right hand will be admitted to Paradise; and those whose book is placed in their left will not.

It is said that a record of good deeds is made straight away; but that a record of bad deeds is delayed for some hours, to allow for repentance. Even when a sin is recorded it can be erased by sincere and genuine repentance (tawbah): ‘But He will overlook the bad deeds of those who have faith, do good deeds, and believe in what has been sent down to Muhammad - the truth from their Lord - and He will put them into a good state’ (Muhammad: 2).

Not only does sincere and genuine repentance wipe out an evil deed, it transforms that deed into a good one: ‘Those who repent, believe, and do good deeds, Allāh will change the evil deeds of such people into good ones. He is most forgiving, most merciful’ (Al-Furqan: 70).

Every day of their lives - many times a day - Muslims speak the words: ‘The Lord of Mercy’; ‘The Giver of Mercy’; ‘The Compassionate’; ‘The Merciful’. These are the Beloved‘s Names. We did not give them to Him, He chose them for Himself. Of all His Names these are His favorite. That is why we are asked to speak them so often - so that we do not forget Who it is that loves us; Who it is that binds us to Himself with ties of tenderness, mercy and forgiveness.

All that we do should be done for the love of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla alone, and not out of fear of punishment; nor for any other reason. This will suffice.

Perhaps you should think on this:

‘How does it help, my brothers, when someone who has never done a single good act claims to have faith? Will that faith bring salvation? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them: “I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty,” without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that? In the same way faith, if good deeds do not go with it, is quite dead. But someone may say: “So you have faith and I have good deeds? Show me this faith of yours without deeds, then! It is by my deeds that I will show you my faith. You believe in the one God - that is creditable enough, but even the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Fool! Would you not like to know that faith without deeds is useless?’ (James 2:14-20).

Have a good day.

but is not Islam based on works and NOT faith alone?

 

[Limo]

The question is not, survived or not ?
We're sure that we're going to heaven as long as we believe in one god and prophet Mohamed.
the question is, will I go directly or after I spent sometime in hill?
Whenever I go to heaven, the question is which grade/class I'll be ?

I shall do good deeds as much as I can. good deeds wipes bad deeds and upgrades my grade/class in heaven.

The above is applied not only for Moslems but also for right believers from other nations with the right belief in God and believing the suitable prophet like Jesus, Ibrahim, Moses, Noah

 

[bling]

The question is not, survived or not ?
We're sure that we're going to heaven as long as we believe in one god and prophet Mohamed.
the question is, will I go directly or after I spent sometime in hill?
Whenever I go to heaven, the question is which grade/class I'll be ?

I shall do good deeds as much as I can. good deeds wipes bad deeds and upgrades my grade/class in heaven.

The above is applied not only for Moslems but also for right believers from other nations with the right belief in God and believing the suitable prophet like Jesus, Ibrahim, Moses, Noah

That is interesting.

In Christianity: God is totally selfless (Loving) and is best addressed as our Father or Shepherd (willing to lay down his own life for the sheep).

Since God is totally Loving (selfless) He is really not trying to “get” something from His children or have them “earn” anything, but is wanting just to shower them with unbelievable wonderful great gifts.

God showers the New Christian with every wonderful gift possible, the only exception being eternal life in heaven at that moment, but the New Christian is give a birth right guarantee that cannot be stolen or taken away and even God would not take it away. There is the option of the Christian like Esau selling or giving his birthright away, since the Christian still has free will.

There are no “levels” in the Christian heaven (that would be a silly concept, since anyone of high position would only use it to serve others of lower position. The person with a heavenly “mansion” would be taking in those on the street giving them the best he has (this is the Loving thing to do).

Since the Christian is given all he/she can get from the moment of his/her commitment, the only reason to do anything “good” is out of gratitude for what has already been given and not to get anything.

 

[Esiar]

I think the OP is pretty much right. Muslims have to wait and find out, and they should do the best they can, according to their beliefs.

 

[Niblo]

but is not Islam based on works and NOT faith alone?

Hello,

Islam is based on faith and works; and not on faith alone. And so is Christianity.

A Christian might say: ‘I have faith that Christ is my Redeemer. That by his sacrificial death and resurrection I am cleansed of the stain of original sin and made whole. I am saved.’

This (or something like it) is that person’s faith. Someone might say, ‘OK, great. But what are you going to do about it?’ And the Christian might reply: ‘Nothing. Faith alone is enough.’

If faith is all we need then we have no need of prayer (neither private nor public), since prayer is an act of faith (a ‘work’). If faith is all we need then why bother preaching the Word? Why bother teaching Christianity to our children? If faith is all we need why do we find this in the New Testament:

'When the Son of man comes in his glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All nations will be assembled before him and he will separate people one from another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats. He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.

‘Then the King will say to those on his right hand: "Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take as your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you made me welcome, lacking clothes and you clothed me, sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me."

‘Then the upright will say to him in reply: "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome, lacking clothes and clothe you? When did we find you sick or in prison and go to see you?" And the King will answer: "In truth I tell you, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me."

‘Then he will say to those on his left hand: "Go away from me, with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you never gave me food, I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink, I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, lacking clothes and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me." Then it will be their turn to ask: "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty, a stranger or lacking clothes, sick or in prison, and did not come to your help?" Then he will answer: "In truth I tell you, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me." And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the upright to eternal life.' (Matthew 25: 31-46).

Those who say that faith alone is enough would do well to remember these words: 'It is not anyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven.’ (Matthew 7: 21).

How is it possible to carry out the will of the Beloved if not by righteous deeds?

Have a good day.

 

[Niblo]

That is interesting.

In Christianity: God is totally selfless (Loving) and is best addressed as our Father or Shepherd (willing to lay down his own life for the sheep).

Since God is totally Loving (selfless) He is really not trying to “get” something from His children or have them “earn” anything, but is wanting just to shower them with unbelievable wonderful great gifts.

God showers the New Christian with every wonderful gift possible, the only exception being eternal life in heaven at that moment, but the New Christian is give a birth right guarantee that cannot be stolen or taken away and even God would not take it away. There is the option of the Christian like Esau selling or giving his birthright away, since the Christian still has free will.

There are no “levels” in the Christian heaven (that would be a silly concept, since anyone of high position would only use it to serve others of lower position. The person with a heavenly “mansion” would be taking in those on the street giving them the best he has (this is the Loving thing to do).

Since the Christian is given all he/she can get from the moment of his/her commitment, the only reason to do anything “good” is out of gratitude for what has already been given and not to get anything.

Hello,

Muslims are reluctant to address the Beloved as ‘Father’ because of that word’s connection to the Trinity. It is not because we find Him to be other than loving. We do not say that He is ‘willing to lay down His own life’, since He cannot die.

The Beloved showers His blessings on all people - not just on Christians and Muslims. Like you, we believe that He: ‘Causes His sun to rise on the bad as well as the good, and sends down rain to fall on the upright and the wicked alike.’ (Matthew 5: 45).

According to Christian theology there is indeed justification for saying there are different levels of rank within Heaven.

It is said that Heaven will descend out of the sky and come down to earth. This ‘New Jerusalem’ will be a place where believers have differing levels of authority and different positions, depending on what they have done on this earth. In other words, their ‘rank’ will be determined by the quality of their works.

You will be familiar with the parable of the servants (as described in Luke). According to an interpretation of this parable Yeshua(ʿalayhi as-salām) will say to those persons who doubled what they had been given: ‘Well done, my good servant! Since you have proved yourself trustworthy in a very small thing, you shall have the government of ten cities.’ Some take this to mean that each of these people will be made ruler of ten cities in the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who have fewer talents, gifts, will be given charge of ‘five cities’ (Luke 19:19). In addition, we are told that believers will be kings and priests in the coming Kingdom (Revelation 20:6).

There appears to be little doubt that those who do most for the Beloved’s glory on earth will receive the greater positions of rule and power in Heaven.

A Muslim would agree that the only valid reason to do anything ‘good’ is love for the Beloved. In Islam, intention is everything. If the intention behind the deed is selfish in any way, then that deed has no spiritual merit.

Have a good day.

 

[Truthseeker1971]

How can we be sure that we will enter Paradise? Because we have faith in Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla).

On the Day of Judgment all will stand before Him. Each will be given a record of their lives. Those whose book is placed in their right hand will be admitted to Paradise; and those whose book is placed in their left will not.

It is said that a record of good deeds is made straight away; but that a record of bad deeds is delayed for some hours, to allow for repentance. Even when a sin is recorded it can be erased by sincere and genuine repentance (tawbah): ‘But He will overlook the bad deeds of those who have faith, do good deeds, and believe in what has been sent down to Muhammad - the truth from their Lord - and He will put them into a good state’ (Muhammad: 2).

Not only does sincere and genuine repentance wipe out an evil deed, it transforms that deed into a good one: ‘Those who repent, believe, and do good deeds, Allāh will change the evil deeds of such people into good ones. He is most forgiving, most merciful’ (Al-Furqan: 70).

Every day of their lives - many times a day - Muslims speak the words: ‘The Lord of Mercy’; ‘The Giver of Mercy’; ‘The Compassionate’; ‘The Merciful’. These are the Beloved‘s Names. We did not give them to Him, He chose them for Himself. Of all His Names these are His favorite. That is why we are asked to speak them so often - so that we do not forget Who it is that loves us; Who it is that binds us to Himself with ties of tenderness, mercy and forgiveness.

All that we do should be done for the love of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla alone, and not out of fear of punishment; nor for any other reason. This will suffice.

Perhaps you should think on this:

‘How does it help, my brothers, when someone who has never done a single good act claims to have faith? Will that faith bring salvation? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them: “I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty,” without giving them these bare necessities of life, then what good is that? In the same way faith, if good deeds do not go with it, is quite dead. But someone may say: “So you have faith and I have good deeds? Show me this faith of yours without deeds, then! It is by my deeds that I will show you my faith. You believe in the one God - that is creditable enough, but even the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Fool! Would you not like to know that faith without deeds is useless?’ (James 2:14-20).

Have a good day.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We cannot ever save ourselves. It is by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, foreshadowed in the Old Testament sacrificial system, that we are save. There is no other way

 

[Niblo]

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

We cannot ever save ourselves. It is by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, foreshadowed in the Old Testament sacrificial system, that we are save. There is no other way

Thank you for your comments. They are duly noted.

 

[bling]

Hello,

Muslims are reluctant to address the Beloved as ‘Father’ because of that word’s connection to the Trinity. It is not because we find Him to be other than loving. We do not say that He is ‘willing to lay down His own life’, since He cannot die.

The Beloved showers His blessings on all people - not just on Christians and Muslims. Like you, we believe that He: ‘Causes His sun to rise on the bad as well as the good, and sends down rain to fall on the upright and the wicked alike.’ (Matthew 5: 45).

According to Christian theology there is indeed justification for saying there are different levels of rank within Heaven.

It is said that Heaven will descend out of the sky and come down to earth. This ‘New Jerusalem’ will be a place where believers have differing levels of authority and different positions, depending on what they have done on this earth. In other words, their ‘rank’ will be determined by the quality of their works.

You will be familiar with the parable of the servants (as described in Luke). According to an interpretation of this parable Yeshua(ʿalayhi as-salām) will say to those persons who doubled what they had been given: ‘Well done, my good servant! Since you have proved yourself trustworthy in a very small thing, you shall have the government of ten cities.’ Some take this to mean that each of these people will be made ruler of ten cities in the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who have fewer talents, gifts, will be given charge of ‘five cities’ (Luke 19:19). In addition, we are told that believers will be kings and priests in the coming Kingdom (Revelation 20:6).

There appears to be little doubt that those who do most for the Beloved’s glory on earth will receive the greater positions of rule and power in Heaven.

A Muslim would agree that the only valid reason to do anything ‘good’ is love for the Beloved. In Islam, intention is everything. If the intention behind the deed is selfish in any way, then that deed has no spiritual merit.

Have a good day.

Thank you for responding and I would like to hear from other Muslims on the subject.

I do not see how calling God “Father” supports the idea of a trinity?

Do you call God “Father” among other Muslims?

The Bible talks about the Shepherd willing to lay down His life for the sheep, so could God be willing to do almost anything and everything and yet not able to lay His life down?

Can you call God our “Good Shepherd”?

It is great that you are familiar with Christ’s parables like the “Parable of the three servants given different quantities of money”.

Unfortunately you may not realize how greater Christianity responsibility, just means; the greater servant you are to others.

Matt. 20:25 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

You said: “In addition, we are told that believers will be kings and priests in the coming Kingdom (Revelation 20:6).”

But this is what the verse actually said: Rev. 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We are not “kings” since God is the only true “king”, but are priest serving others and God (that is what priest do). “Reigning” is not lording over others, but serving others like God serving His children.

Christians can enter heaven with different amounts of Godly type Love (God have the greatest amount and is described “God is Love”). But that just means others will Love me more than I can Love them back, so who is better off in that situation?

You talk about doing things for selfish reasons (to get or gain for self something) and doing stuff for unselfish reasons. How could God best “motivate” us to not do anything to “gain” anything unless it was to provide for us only the option of doing good stuff out of pure gratitude, since there is nothing we gain over what we have?

 

[rockytopva]

Works based faith... Who is trying these days? Who are the people supporting the cause of the poor and the needy? I often get mail from people wanting me to support their ministry. But when I research their life I find a people living 'high on the hog.' Some with million dollar homes and God knows what else.

I miss the ministry, such as RW Schambachs, who actively attempted to take the Gospel to a lost and dying world...

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Our brains output is a result of E/c2
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

If any man be of God the Father, I don't care what name tag he is under, he is going to be properly spiritually motivated. His heart will be warm, tender, and loving. Any acts that can be judged as spiritual cold are not of God the Father!

 

[My Shalom]

How do Muslims know when they have earned their way to God? Since I know that you all are based on works giving, doing the Hajj and fasting as a religion for a month, so how can you know when you have done enough? Or is there ever enough? Do you just wait till you die to find out?

Yes.
Not even Muhammad was sure he'd see paradise.
Islam is not in any way like Christianity. It's works based and the sinful nature of humanity is Allah's doing.

 

[Limo]

33

That is interesting.

In Christianity: God is totally selfless (Loving) and is best addressed as our Father or Shepherd (willing to lay down his own life for the sheep).

Since God is totally Loving (selfless) He is really not trying to “get” something from His children or have them “earn” anything, but is wanting just to shower them with unbelievable wonderful great gifts.

God showers the New Christian with every wonderful gift possible, the only exception being eternal life in heaven at that moment, but the New Christian is give a birth right guarantee that cannot be stolen or taken away and even God would not take it away. There is the option of the Christian like Esau selling or giving his birthright away, since the Christian still has free will.

There are no “levels” in the Christian heaven (that would be a silly concept, since anyone of high position would only use it to serve others of lower position. The person with a heavenly “mansion” would be taking in those on the street giving them the best he has (this is the Loving thing to do).

Since the Christian is given all he/she can get from the moment of his/her commitment, the only reason to do anything “good” is out of gratitude for what has already been given and not to get anything.

All Christian are having the same level of belief. i.e. your faith and consequently your position in heaven will be like apostles and prophets. A christian who killed someone or stolen money is in the same degree like prophets and apostles.

It means just get the certificate "Christian" and do whatever you like and no need for good deeds

 

[Limo]

<staff edit>
Absolutely no. Islam is faith and deeds.
This what is you call Christianity (review bling comment above)

 

[bling]

33

All Christian are having the same level of belief. i.e. your faith and consequently your position in heaven will be like apostles and prophets. A christian who killed someone or stolen money is in the same degree like prophets and apostles.

It means just get the certificate "Christian" and do whatever you like and no need for good deeds

Christian is not some title, but is a descriptive word describing someone who is: “Like Christ”, so there is no “certified Christian”, but people that are Christ like are Christians. Not everyone who calls themselves “Christian” are Christians.

A true “Christian” does get to do “whatever He/she likes” so what does a true Christian like?

 

[Limo]

Christian is not some title, but is a descriptive word describing someone who is: “Like Christ”, so there is no “certified Christian”, but people that are Christ like are Christians. Not everyone who calls themselves “Christian” are Christians.

A true “Christian” does get to do “whatever He/she likes” so what does a true Christian like?

Even though, the model for you is Jesus but can't say all what do you call "True Christian " who should be "Christ like" will not be the same degree "Christ Like" and noone will be 100% "Christ like". Some will be 1% or even less and some will be 40% even more. (We believe that Jesus is a human prophet).
Are there any differences in heaven or even in life between people (who aim to be "Christ like" ) who did 1% to 100% ?
Will all be the same ?

By the way, If Christians are the people who are aiming to be "Christ like" then we Moslems are the true Christians. We may discuss why later

 

[bling]

Even though, the model for you is Jesus but can't say all what do you call "True Christian " who should be "Christ like" will not be the same degree "Christ Like" and noone will be 100% "Christ like". Some will be 1% or even less and some will be 40% even more. (We believe that Jesus is a human prophet).
Are there any differences in heaven or even in life between people (who aim to be "Christ like" ) who did 1% to 100% ?
Will all be the same ?

I did not suggest everyone is the “same” in heaven because there are differences. God is pure unselfish Love and none are as great as He is. Deity has powers we really do not need or want if we thought about it (God is serving everyone).

Even among those who go to heaven there are differences:

The big huge difference is in the amount of Love Christians and others developed while here on earth, but that is not something you could even having since the person with greater Love is Loving you more than you can Love them back with your lesser Love, so who is better off in that scenario?

There is also the issue with those that never had the opportunity to become mature adults while here on earth. They would go to heaven without Godly type Love, but would have a strong child for Father type Love, which is not strong enough by itself (being similar to the love Adam and Eve had in the Garden).

I would feel personally responsible for those that could have with my teaching been able to accept Godly type Love and so I hope I might care for these throughout eternity to help them make it without sinning. I look forward to continuing my serving of others throughout eternity, since that gives me great joy.

By the way, If Christians are the people who are aiming to be "Christ like" then we Moslems are the true Christians. We may discuss why later

I am glad you picked up on that, since people of many faith appear to live like Christ, but there is a difference, which we can discuss.

 

[Limo]

I am glad you picked up on that, since people of many faith appear to live like Christ, but there is a difference, which we can discuss.

You may open a new thread of discussion and invite me there