Why don't protestants bless Mary?

[(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)]

Chances are he meant that they are not geographical locations. There are some few Christians who actually do believe that Heaven, Hell, etc. can be located within the physical universe.

I just posted a new thread on the topic in General Theology. I think it will be better discussed there.

 

[Albion]

Good move, Jason.

 

[Panevino]

True. But don't you see it as a problem that a Roman Catholic Church can be so complex

it's amazingly rich and has so much to offer/ explore. Viewing it as complex is a pessimistic approach that may not appreciate that it has value. Though in line with what you say there is a saying from Augustine I think about the grains of sand on a beach are insignificant compared to what can be learned about God(or something to that effect) similarly the view point is seeing something of value that is big rather than something negative.

that so many catholics have no clue what the church actually teaches. It is almost like there are different denominations within the RCC.

There has been a long period of poor catechesis with some people / schools almost afraid of being Catholic or teaching it because of how counter cultural it is. I think a confidence is reemerging which is great, as I've seen in the secondary colleges in my city

My father (who is a devout Catholic ) told me that Hell and Purgatory is not a place but rather "a state of being". But I will leave that topic for another thread.

don't quickly dismiss what he says without digging a bit about what Catholics and your denomination formally say about hell for example and you will likely find common ground

 

[Panevino]

Incorrect
When Catholics refer to the communion of saints it's the church militant and triumphant. It's the body of Christ in total

But even there, you're not using the word in the sense that Aldebaran uses it. Technically, the concept is included in the phrase, "Communion of saints," but the typical Catholic almost never uses saint to mean believer.

I know what you're trying to say.
The canonized Saints are the "saints in light" per col1:12 they are the hall of fame / recognized so to speak.
But all Catholics of atleast a basic level of education in thier faith know clearly that that we are all saints and part of the "communion of saints"
It is true that the majority of the time it is used for the canonized saints, they are popular/extraordinary role models.

Having said all this I do notice that some protestant books avoid using the word Saint but rather use the word "heroes" for saints from the past

 

[concretecamper]

My father (who is a devout Catholic ) told me that Hell and Purgatory is not a place but rather "a state of being".

does this contradict the teaching of the RCC?

True. But don't you see it as a problem that a Roman Catholic Church can be so complex that so many catholics have no clue what the church actually teaches

It is not because of complexity, it is because of poor catechesis.

It is almost like there are different denominations within the RCC.

Just because someone is poorly taught doesn't mean they are a "like" a different denomination.

 

[Albion]

Having said all this I do notice that some protestant books avoid using the word Saint but rather use the word "heroes" for saints from the past

That wouldn't apply to mine, but I think that the reason this is the case with some Protestant churches is that we do not know for a certainty where such people as Francis of Assisi or Augustine or even some Biblical figures actually are.

The churches which accord them the title of Saint (capitalized, as a title rather than merely a description) are saying that we know for a fact that they are in heaven. To make the matter more complicated, these are the churches that have told their members that it's right to pray to them as special intercessors with God precisely because they are in heaven.

And that's further complicated by the mechanical system by which the Vatican Catholic Church decides who is a saint, which is to say church lawyers declaring that a certain number of miracles have been performed by the departed person within a certain period of time (unless the person is especially liked, such as a recently-departed Pope, in which case, fewer miracles and less time will be required).

 

[Open Heart]

So why was the lineage in Matthew and Luke concerned with Joseph?

Jesus had to be of the House of David. Luke's lineage is supposed to be Mary's.

 

[Open Heart]

does this contradict the teaching of the RCC?

No. What Catholicism teaches is Purgation -- the idea that Christ will use suffering to perfect us, beginning in this life, and finishing it in the next. For most people that means believing in a place called Purgatory, but belief in such a place is not required. Only belief in the process is required.

 

[Open Heart]

That hardly answers the question you were asked. Since scripture places more emphasis on Joseph,

Untrue.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No. What Catholicism teaches is Purgation -- the idea that Christ will use suffering to perfect us, beginning in this life, and finishing it in the next. For most people that means believing in a place called Purgatory, but belief in such a place is not required. Only belief in the process is required.

I don't know where you get these notions. They are not what the Catechism of the Catholic Church states. The Catechism clearly identifies Purgatory as a place (hence its title, a proper noun) and not a process only.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:


As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

 

[Aldebaran]

I know what you're trying to say.
The canonized Saints are the "saints in light" per col1:12 they are the hall of fame / recognized so to speak.
But all Catholics of atleast a basic level of education in thier faith know clearly that that we are all saints and part of the "communion of saints"
It is true that the majority of the time it is used for the canonized saints, they are popular/extraordinary role models.

Having said all this I do notice that some protestant books avoid using the word Saint but rather use the word "heroes" for saints from the past

Yeah, I think this is kind of a mistake. Paul himself obviously didn't want to be elevated to be seen as being a hero or someone to be looked up to or prayed to. See here from 1 Corinthians 3:

4For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building.

 

[prodromos]

I don't know where you get these notions. They are not what the Catechism of the Catholic Church states. The Catechism clearly identifies Purgatory as a place (hence its title, a proper noun) and not a process only.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:


As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

Where do the above quotes state it is a place?

 

[justcoolforyou]

While not technically a Protestant, sometimes I thank Christ for His Holy Mother, as an example to all Christians, especially Christian mothers, wives, and daughters. Her silent suffering next to her Son is very instructive for me. I believe that from all the Holy Men and Women in Paradise, Mary has the highest place. And that she stands by her Son's right side. If my Messiah grants me Paradise, I would be honored to meet and praise her. But my prayers are to the Father and the Son only. But I do believe that some Marian apparitions might be her, especially the miracle of Zeitun.

The first record apparitions of Mary is Rev. 12:1...psalms 45 shows that the queen mother of the messiah stands at the right hand of the king. ..

 

[Open Heart]

I don't know where you get these notions. They are not what the Catechism of the Catholic Church states. The Catechism clearly identifies Purgatory as a place (hence its title, a proper noun) and not a process only.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:


As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

Pay very close attention to exactly what you quoted from the Catechism. Nowhere does it mention a place. It refers to a PROCESS of "purification of the elect." Here is another reference which states the same:

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

 

[Rick Otto]

does this contradict the teaching of the RCC?



It is not because of complexity, it is because of poor catechesis.



Just because someone is poorly taught doesn't mean they are a "like" a different denomination.

Poor catechesis looks epidemic. Sounds like a top down organization with nobody on top.

 

[Rick Otto]

Pay very close attention to exactly what you quoted from the Catechism. Nowhere does it mention a place. It refers to a PROCESS of "purification of the elect." Here is another reference which states the same:

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

Sounds like a state of being rather than a physical address.

 

[Rick Otto]

The first record apparitions of Mary is Rev. 12:1...psalms 45 shows that the queen mother of the messiah stands at the right hand of the king. ..

Is that to be understood as her "standing" (relationship) or is that to be understood that she is literally standing on his literal right side?

 

[justcoolforyou]

Is that to be understood as her "standing" (relationship) or is that to be understood that she is literally standing on his literal right side?

It is to be understood in the same way that Jesus is at the right hand of the father... Jesus being The messiah king the queen stands at his right hand. Overall Mary in scripture is a symbol of the power of the church the new eve the bride of Christ... Mary is daughter of the father, bride of the Holy spirit (marriage covenant) and Mother of the Son...


To him that shall overcome, I will give to sit with me in my throne: as I also have overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne. - Revelation 3:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation3:21&version=NIV

 

[concretecamper]

Sounds like a top down organization with nobody on top.

Missed the mark.....again.

 

[Rick Otto]

Missed the mark.....again.

Keep tryin'