Why Do People Need God?

[Jersey]

No, when I speak to myself it is different. I feel the wash of the Holy Spirit when I pray about certain things, and other times I just sense a presence. Again, unless you have experienced it, it will likely be hard for you to see what I mean.

Does that mean that when i'm in a good mood and feeling pretty good that it might just be the Holy Spirit trying to get my attention or it is trying to tell me something? Just how do you "know" it is the Holy Spirit's presence you are sensing and not just your own emotions in a "feel good" mode? Did it ever occur to you that there is a natural explanation for your experiences and feelings?

 

[PastorJim]

Why do people think they need God to get through the day?

You know, for the first twenty-five years of my life, I got through the day just fine without God.

It isn't that I need God to get through the day, it's that I need Christ as my savior so that my sins can be forgiven and I can be made a child of God.

 

[Naturegirl65]

You know, for the first twenty-five years of my life, I got through the day just fine without God.

It isn't that I need God to get through the day, it's that I need Christ as my savior so that my sins can be forgiven and I can be made a child of God.

So we are not god's children unless we accept Christ as saviour? Yeh I've heard and read that. Well I actually had accepted Christ at one time, fell on my knees and repented of my 'sin'. But years gone by I began to think for myself and no longer believe.

The only reason why I believed I needed Christ and needed to be forgiven is because a book (the bible) or a person told me so. And also my willingness to believe and accept was based on my emotional state of mind, I was vulnerable and looking for something and racked with guilt because I knew I had done wrong, then fear sets in when I hear of sin and punishment and the fear of hell (another fable).
I learn that we need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus to make us acceptable to god, that we are separated from 'god', and need to be reconciled to him and the only way is through christ. At first I am elated, thankful that 'god' provided such a way out for me, that he 'loved' me so much.....John 3:16
but in time and as years have gone by, I learn new things and begin to question and no longer accept just because...and the only way to keep the dream alive is to have faith, which I know longer have, because I no longer believe.

Take away the bible and none of us would know any different. If the bible did not exist, would I still not be a child of God's that is if he exists? Would the Holy Spirit (if it exists) be able to reach us personally without outside influence such as words on a page or another being re-telling the story?

 

[Jersey]

You know, for the first twenty-five years of my life, I got through the day just fine without God.

Sounds to me like you were on the right path to reason. What happened?

It isn't that I need God to get through the day, it's that I need Christ as my savior so that my sins can be forgiven and I can be made a child of God.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here pastor? According to Christianity Jesus is God isn't he?

So you're telling me you need God/Jesus to get through the day then.

 

[razzelflabben]

So we are not god's children unless we accept Christ as saviour? Yeh I've heard and read that. Well I actually had accepted Christ at one time, fell on my knees and repented of my 'sin'. But years gone by I began to think for myself and no longer believe.

The only reason why I believed I needed Christ and needed to be forgiven is because a book (the bible) or a person told me so. And also my willingness to believe and accept was based on my emotional state of mind, I was vulnerable and looking for something and racked with guilt because I knew I had done wrong, then fear sets in when I hear of sin and punishment and the fear of hell (another fable).
I learn that we need to be cleansed by the blood of Jesus to make us acceptable to god, that we are separated from 'god', and need to be reconciled to him and the only way is through christ. At first I am elated, thankful that 'god' provided such a way out for me, that he 'loved' me so much.....John 3:16
but in time and as years have gone by, I learn new things and begin to question and no longer accept just because...and the only way to keep the dream alive is to have faith, which I know longer have, because I no longer believe.

Take away the bible and none of us would know any different. If the bible did not exist, would I still not be a child of God's that is if he exists?

and what a wonder that the book still exists, few manuscripts that old are available to the masses, heck few exist period. I think that it's very existence says something about it's power.

Would the Holy Spirit (if it exists) be able to reach us personally without outside influence such as words on a page or another being re-telling the story?

As to the Holy Spirit, yes, if we didn't have people telling us the story, even if we didn't have the bible, God would be trying to get our attention. I have heard it testified to, seen it with my own eyes as well. In fact, I came to God without any knowledge of who He was, no stories, no bible to read, heck, I was only a young kid who began to reason. It was only later that I read the bible and heard stories retold.

 

[Naturegirl65]

........I came to God without any knowledge of who He was, no stories, no bible to read, heck, I was only a young kid who began to reason. It was only later that I read the bible and heard stories retold.

The god I knew as a child is very different to the one in the bible.

Don't forget according to the bible we are not part of bible god's kingdom or belong to him until we acknowledge christ as savior, we are not his child until then.

We are born into sin, right from birth, god only hears prayers of the righteous, so if you did not repent of sin and knew jesus as a child, the god you believed you came to as a child is possibly not the same one depicted in the bible?

This is what christianity teaches, that believing in god is not enough, it has to be the god who sent his only begotten son, Jesus christ, otherwise the god we believe in is a self created god, a false one, the wrong one.

 

[Jayangel81]

The god I knew as a child is very different to the one in the bible.

Don't forget according to the bible we are not part of bible god's kingdom or belong to him until we acknowledge christ as savior, we are not his child until then.

We are born into sin, right from birth, god only hears prayers of the righteous, so if you did not repent of sin and knew jesus as a child, the god you believed you came to as a child is possibly not the same one depicted in the bible?

This is what christianity teaches, that believing in god is not enough, it has to be the god who sent his only begotten son, Jesus christ, otherwise the god we believe in is a self created god, a false one, the wrong one.

Alot of people create God for what they wants, I got to know God before I really got into the bible, not nearly as much as I could. But still He gave me revelations.

The only reason why I believed I needed Christ and needed to be forgiven is because a book (the bible) or a person told me so.

Im sorry a book is the only thing that made you believe that. alot of people think that. I realized I needed God before I really read the bible. we all need a little help in our lives.

Would the Holy Spirit (if it exists) be able to reach us personally without outside influence

The Holy Spirit reaches people everyday, without people reading the bible and outside influences. People underestimate that because they simply do not know the power of God

they limit Him to a level of humans understanding which might I add is pretty poor and sad at the same time

I learn new things and begin to question and no longer accept just because...and the only way to keep the dream alive is to have faith

maybe you just couldnt connect and have that intimate relationship?. While faith is important its not a blind faith.. as many seem to believe

Just how do you "know" it is the Holy Spirit's presence you are sensing and not just your own emotions in a "feel good" mode? Did it ever occur to you that there is a natural explanation for your experiences and feelings?

The Holy spirit is not a feeling though. Often times Christians try to look for that. real experiances with God are not natural, they are beyond that. I think it would be very hard to even begin to help the unbeliever understand that if not next to impossible. It cannot be displayed in just a few words. You have to experiance it to understand it

 

[Naturegirl65]

...maybe you just couldnt connect and have that intimate relationship?. While faith is important its not a blind faith.. as many seem to believe

Well I believe I walked very close with the Lord, I had been born again, a new creation, who loved God and worshipped Him, communed daily with Him, prayed with others and for others. evangelized and shared the good news. At times the presence I felt which at the time I believed was the Holy Spirit, was very overwhelming and amazing.

When I said earlier that It was the bible and hearing preaching that I knew I needed Christ, it was christ that was missing. That is what I meant. I thought I had already some connection with God prior to that understanding, I believed in god the creator of heaven and earth, I believed he created me. I talked to him, thanked him for things in my life, asked for help and so forth, but I did not know Jesus.

anyhow it is just not there anymore... I think maybe it is all in our imaginations, that what I thought was once was, is no longer. It has gone. It is like I have broken up with an invisible being who never existed. I feel nothing. It is all just like a big fantasy tale to me now, made up by man, maybe there are elements of truth weaved in here and there but it is just too overwhelming and too much for me to handle.
The peace and the joy that I once knew turned to anxiety and stress, the more I sought god and delved deeper the more I became obsessive and the world around me got smaller and smaller.

christians are so adamant that they think they have the truth. I thought I had the truth, but I no longer believe any of us do. And why be so arrogant to think that we do.

 

[Jersey]

Look, the word you used wife, tells us something about your relationship with the person you refer to. It tells us what type of relationship you have, it's a qualifier. Try explaining the relationship you have with your wife without these qualifiers. How do we know you are talking about your wife and not some other person? The qualifiers make the difference. The same is true with God. God is spirit, not none existant, not flesh and blood, not emotional, not made believe. He is spirit. The qualifier here is spirit. In other words, the qualifier tells us that the communication is with the spirit, not the mind, not the emotions, though like with your wife, these are part of the relationship, the communication is different from your wife than from me for example. Communication with God is a spiritual communication, not a mental one, not a faith only one, though faith is involved, the communication is spiritual. Though your communication with your wife is audible, you also experience it sensually kind of thing. The qualifiers make the difference when we are talking about the kind of communication that exists and how it speaks to us.

Right. My wife is reality. Spirits are not.

 

[razzelflabben]

The god I knew as a child is very different to the one in the bible.

sad, for me it was the same God and it's been an amazing ride.

Don't forget according to the bible we are not part of bible god's kingdom or belong to him until we acknowledge christ as savior, we are not his child until then.

what does that have to do with anything I said, you lost me as far as your argument goes.

We are born into sin, right from birth, god only hears prayers of the righteous, so if you did not repent of sin and knew jesus as a child, the god you believed you came to as a child is possibly not the same one depicted in the bible?

be a bit careful here, if the only prayers God hears are the one's of the righteous, then none of us would be able to come to Christ. Remember, the bible says none are righteous no not one. Of course God hears the prayer of the unrighteous, that is how we become righteous. But the OP is about why we need God, not who He hears.

This is what christianity teaches, that believing in god is not enough, it has to be the god who sent his only begotten son, Jesus christ, otherwise the god we believe in is a self created god, a false one, the wrong one.

I have nothing to do with what Christianity teaches, I find Christianity as empty of a religion as all others. On the other hand, God and His Word I find to be very alive and vibrant.

So what does the bible teach? It teaches us that 1. For God so loved the world that whosoever believes on Him should have everlasting life. Belief is salvation. 2. God's purpose is to reconcile man unto Himself through the Lord Jesus Christ, by way of forgiveness of sin.

Now, that is what the bible teaches of which I am pretty confident in being that I have seen it's truth and lived much of it's truth first hand.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well I believe I walked very close with the Lord, I had been born again, a new creation, who loved God and worshipped Him, communed daily with Him, prayed with others and for others. evangelized and shared the good news. At times the presence I felt which at the time I believed was the Holy Spirit, was very overwhelming and amazing.

When I said earlier that It was the bible and hearing preaching that I knew I needed Christ, it was christ that was missing. That is what I meant. I thought I had already some connection with God prior to that understanding, I believed in god the creator of heaven and earth, I believed he created me. I talked to him, thanked him for things in my life, asked for help and so forth, but I did not know Jesus.

anyhow it is just not there anymore... I think maybe it is all in our imaginations, that what I thought was once was, is no longer. It has gone. It is like I have broken up with an invisible being who never existed. I feel nothing. It is all just like a big fantasy tale to me now, made up by man, maybe there are elements of truth weaved in here and there but it is just too overwhelming and too much for me to handle.
The peace and the joy that I once knew turned to anxiety and stress, the more I sought god and delved deeper the more I became obsessive and the world around me got smaller and smaller.

christians are so adamant that they think they have the truth. I thought I had the truth, but I no longer believe any of us do. And why be so arrogant to think that we do.

Could this last statement hold all the answers for you? You thought you knew the truth!?! I find that when I think I know, or hold the truth, that is exactly when I realize I haven't even begun. Take our current discussion about God. If I think that I know God, that I know all I need to know, I stop seeking Him. I set myself above Him, (remember that sin in the bible?) It is when I assume to know the truth that God will show me something I didn't know. Something that is beyond what I could comprehend before.

If I look at what you have said, and take it at face value, I think you made two mistakes in your relationship with God. Grave mistakes, 1. you presumed to know truth, when God is the only truth that exists. You seem to have become boastful, presuming to be like God, knowing good from evil, truth from fiction. and 2. you looked at God through the emotional not the logical. If we understand God's premise, He is totally logical. But most people content themselves with the emotional God. I know, I sought this God for many years, until I realized that God wasn't about emotions, how I felt and how those feelings compelled me, but God was about the tangibles in this life, the unconditional Love that though it moves us emotionally, transcends emotions, transcend actions, and goes right to the very core of man. It's a love that fulfills man's purpose, removing all the chaff of His life, and reducing Him to what He was created to be. It is this love that transcends emotions, and actions, that fulfills man's purpose within Him. (btw, that is also where reconciliation comes in) Way too many people see God as a sensual God.

Just some thoughts for what it's worth.

 

[razzelflabben]

Right. My wife is reality. Spirits are not.

Wow, such an old post you are responding to. See if I can remember all that was responded to in it. Btw, apparently you missed the point.

The point was this, when you ask someone how they communicate with a spiritual being, you have (for those who do not want to believe that we are spiritual beings) nothing to base your assumptions on, no qualifiers. Look at it this way, your post says that you do not believe that there are spirits that we can communicate with. So when someone says to you, I talk to (God) a spirit, or that they talk in the spirit, you have nothing to go on. No understanding, no qualifiers. When someone says I talk with my spouse, you automatically have certain qualifiers because you believe that people have spouses and that they talk. Ultimately what that means, is that explaining to someone like you how communication with God works, is a difficult thing, because you have nothing to base our words on.

Let's look at it another way, see if any of this makes sense. I have a Haitian friend. His father was a Voodoo high priest, come to Christ. The Haitians, especially voodoo priest live in the spirit world every day. Of course it is a world of demons, but it is the spirit world none the less. So when I talk to people who are use to the spirit world, and say something about communication in the spirit, they get it automatically because they have a qualifier that you don't have.

What this all boils down to is that just because you can't understand how to communicate in the Spirit doesn't mean it isn't happening, or some other nonsense that was at the time being proclaimed. what it means is that you don't have anything to base your understanding on. You have no qualifiers to draw from. Doesn't mean it isn't real, isn't truth, isn't whatever, it means that you lack the ability to understand where the poster is coming from. You have no qualifiers.

I had a high school science teacher to is literally a genius. We could hold an entire conversation with him and not have a clue what he was saying. He used qualifiers we didn't know. Those qualifiers can and often do make the difference in adequate communication. So don't dismiss talking to God so quickly, the real communication problem is the lack of basic qualifiers you come to the table with.

 

[Naturegirl65]

When I said I thought I knew the truth, I meant that I believed jesus is the way, the truth and the life. he was the true way to god. I thought that much was true.
As for being humble and contrite. I surrendered. I took the back seat
I didn't know anything then, and I still don't.

 

[razzelflabben]

When I said I thought I knew the truth, I meant that I believed jesus is the way, the truth and the life. he was the true way to god. I thought that much was true.
As for being humble and contrite. I surrendered. I took the back seat
I didn't know anything then, and I still don't.

It seems you missed the point, but oh well, it was just some random thoughts after reading your post. Your post sounded like the words of so many people I talk to, who go through their entire lives, thinking they know God, only to come to a point in their lives, where they realize they have never even had a glimpse of that God. At that moment, they either turn away, or open their eyes and see what they had not seen before. You turned away.

the usual argument is that they believed out of fear, fear of hell the most common though there are others. they also talk about the emotional side, a lot. The third common factor here is that of thinking they knew the way. Being that Jesus is the way. That's three out of three. If I'm wrong, it was only some thoughts so I was wrong. If I am right, then it is something you must face sooner or later.

 

[Jersey]

Wow, such an old post you are responding to. See if I can remember all that was responded to in it. Btw, apparently you missed the point.

Do you really have a point?

The point was this, when you ask someone how they communicate with a spiritual being, you have (for those who do not want to believe that we are spiritual beings) nothing to base your assumptions on, no qualifiers.

What is a spirit being exactly? I have no idea what that is. What is your "qualifier" for such a thing? To me, they are not part of reality. They are not part of the natural world that I can communicate with. So how can you assert such a thing is real? Or is it something within your imagination or imaginary world you seem to think you have all this knowledge about.

 

[Lukaris]

Why do people think they need God to get through the day?

As a means to our existence. If one is satisfied with life originating through matter, death, and dissolving then there is no need for God.

 

[razzelflabben]

Do you really have a point?

of course, in fact, I have many points, most of which were totally ignored in this thread.

What is a spirit being exactly?

lots of questions, let's take them one by one.

What is a spirit being. It's a being with a spiritual nature. Humans are spiritual beings, they have a physical side and a spiritual side. Some of these beings (humans) are aware of that spiritual nature others refuse to accept it. A spiritual being can also be a being that is spirit only, at least to this world, like the Holy Spirit. In addition, a spirit being can be one that appears to be spirit in this world, or most of the time to this world, this category would include angels and demons.

I have no idea what that is. What is your "qualifier" for such a thing?

exactly my point. If you have nothing to base your understanding on, whether from refusal to accept or understand or for some other reason, then the qualifiers don't exist. That means that explaining it to you will be difficult which was the point I originally responded to. Trying to explain something to someone who has nothing to base understanding on, doesn't mean the explanation is flawed or without truth. what it means is that the hearer doesn't know how to process the information. therefore when the comments were made that communication with God was hard to explain therefore it must lack truth, came up, I responded by showing that it wasn't necessarily the explanation that was wrong, but the lack of basic understanding that would allow you and others to understand. It does not remove the communication from truth just because you don't have enough background to understand what is being said. That was the point of the post you are referring to.

To me, they are not part of reality. They are not part of the natural world that I can communicate with.

to me and many others, they are. Do you know anything at all about voodoo? They communicate with demons, (spirits) all the time, the results are startling. In my own life, it is the touch of the supernatural on a natural world that captivates my attention, compels me to believe, and convinces me that God is real. It isn't so much that I can see or test the supernatural, but rather that I can observe and test the touch of the supernatural on the natural world. In other words, when the spiritual world touches the natural world, evidence is left. Now you can try to explain it away, this is true with all evidence. Or you can study it and look at it and apply logic to it. Your choice. I personally believe applying logic is the best course of action. The result of that is undoubtably God.

So how can you assert such a thing is real?

again, I assert it is real because I have observed it's touch on the empirical world and found the logical conclusion to be God.

Or is it something within your imagination or imaginary world you seem to think you have all this knowledge about.

First off I assume to have all knowledge about nothing. I am not anywhere close to that smart. Secondly, if we take the argument that all reality is what we believe reality to be, then yes, it is all in my head, just as is the computer where I sit, the car I drive, the clothes I wear. However, I find this a poor philosophical thought pattern. I personally prefer to look at the world around me and believe that what I can see and test is real, not just a figment of my imagination. That being the philosophy that I hold (that we can see and test our world) then no, God is not a figment of my imagination. In my wildest imaginings, I could not possibly contrive a situation in which I could be hit by a train, (the car so damaged that only one tire was salvagable) and still walk away, but what's even more amazing is to realize that not only did I literally walk away, but that that very accident saved a life from suicide many years later.

Nor could I in my wildest dreams imagine that I could be beat up by the church (figuative) and left for dead, or watch my son be physically assaulted (literally) by a decons children, and find peace inside a church again.

I could not in my imagination conceive of living in poverty and yet finding a peace, and confidence that it would be okay, nor could I conceive in my mind the ways that we have been provided for.

I could not imagine loving parents who were hateful and destructive to me and yet I do, and I can forgive them.

Shall I go on? I was told one time, that no one lives what they believe more than I do. I guess that is why I have seen many times, the touch of the supernatural on the natural world and found no other explanation than God does exist.

I could not imagine the time that someone tried to stab me, but a force like that of a hand, held her firm till she let go of her anger.

I could not imagine many things that I have seen with my own eyes. So when you ask if God is made up in my head, I can testify without question that the things I have seen, the times that God has touched my life, are without question, not from my imagination. And the list goes on...

 

[Emmy]

Dear Jersey. May I say this humbly and kindly? You had quite a few replies, and you cannot, or will not, believe it. The only way you will find out for sure, is by trying it out for yourself. If you sincerely ask God to help you to know Him, to fill you with His Love and His presence, you would be able to tell others of it. God sees your heart, and He knows whether you are truly trying to find out, or not. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Jersey, I have had experiences where the spiritual and natural world have met. From this point of contact my faith in God is greatly enhanced. I am "athiest proof" so to speak, my experience keeps my faith strong. I have shared this story else where on this forumn and will again untill I know it has been read. I hope it encourages your faith in God.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall, I heard a voice speak to me and say "How would you like to be stabed with a knife in the valley", at the same time I had a spiritual experience of some kind; a feeling if you will. The valley was a place in brisbane known for it's night life and also its voilence. When I heard the voice I thought, I hope that is not going to happen to me, as I was planning to go down to the valley to ask people out to church. I went down there after work any way. The first man I met was an athiest he was dressed in hip hop kind of clothes and acted fairly cooly to me. I asked him "would you like to go out to church". He said "No man I am an athiest". I just said "fine", and tried to ask his friend, and hoped he might change his mind. Then some where in the middle of all of this he pulled open his shirt and showed me scar marks all over his front. He told me "Look man the reason I don't believe is because I was attacked by a mad man with a knife in the valley and spent months recovering in hospital". He did not believe because of the attack. That morning God haad prepared me for the meeting by asking me a simple question "How would I like it if I was attacked" - I then knew I would not like it at all. On the way home, I took him home because one of the aboriginal elders asked, I bought up the story. It was some week or so latter he came out to church and gave his life back to Jesus. I rang him up some weeks latter and he was listening to christian music in the back ground. When God has got your number, athiest or not, you won't stay that way long.

 

[Jersey]

Jersey, I have had experiences where the spiritual and natural world have met. From this point of contact my faith in God is greatly enhanced. I am "athiest proof" so to speak, my experience keeps my faith strong. I have shared this story else where on this forumn and will again untill I know it has been read. I hope it encourages your faith in God.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall, I heard a voice speak to me and say "How would you like to be stabed with a knife in the valley", at the same time I had a spiritual experience of some kind; a feeling if you will. The valley was a place in brisbane known for it's night life and also its voilence. When I heard the voice I thought, I hope that is not going to happen to me, as I was planning to go down to the valley to ask people out to church. I went down there after work any way. The first man I met was an athiest he was dressed in hip hop kind of clothes and acted fairly cooly to me. I asked him "would you like to go out to church". He said "No man I am an athiest". I just said "fine", and tried to ask his friend, and hoped he might change his mind. Then some where in the middle of all of this he pulled open his shirt and showed me scar marks all over his front. He told me "Look man the reason I don't believe is because I was attacked by a mad man with a knife in the valley and spent months recovering in hospital". He did not believe because of the attack. That morning God haad prepared me for the meeting by asking me a simple question "How would I like it if I was attacked" - I then knew I would not like it at all. On the way home, I took him home because one of the aboriginal elders asked, I bought up the story. It was some week or so latter he came out to church and gave his life back to Jesus. I rang him up some weeks latter and he was listening to christian music in the back ground. When God has got your number, athiest or not, you won't stay that way long.

So what is the moral or point of this story and how it relates to why people think they need God to get through the day?